Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

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Houseman

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Do they need to interview Carone? She reports batches were scanned multiple times: that's not a crime, it's a potential procedural mistake. Furthermore, there are checking systems in place to ensure this sort of mistake does not cause vote count errors, and these systems did not indicate an error (certainly not to the tune of 30,000 votes or whatever she claimed). She's also an unreliable witness, and her testimony is disputed by other witnesses, but hey. Are the FBI supposed to interview people who post videos of election officials moving data on flash drives, which the officials' bosses have reviewed and declared appropriate? Why?
Whether or not you personally find Carone's testimony credible is not the point. The point is that you don't have evidence of any sort of FBI investigation besides answering phone calls.

not the investigation they deem justifiable on the evidence.
See? There it is. You're expecting civilians to gather evidence and then send it to the authorities, when really, the authorities should be the one gathering evidence. When they can't, you say "Well, what do you expect the FBI to do about it?" as though they did their job.

If you were shot, the police don't turn you away until you can prove who it was that shot you. They go look for the evidence themselves.
 

Hades

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So then. Rudy Coludy is advocating for trial by combat now.

He also admitted that if they're wrong they'd be made fools of.
 

tippy2k2

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I mean, this is legitimately all well and good. But what do you do when all you get is the low bar?

Republicans work over time to suppress any votes or opinions that are not their own. Efforts are continuously made to make myself and others irrelevant. To install people into office who quite literally want to undo my protections for... reasons. Or legal processes we're still keeping an eye on with bated breath that has its origins rooted in racism.



There's one side actively working against me as a person. There's one side who doesn't. Am I supposed to wait for a benevolent third party to come out of the sky to give me everything I hope for in one fell swoop? Should I hold my votes away from Democrats until they can promise me to completely eradicate all prejudice, job inequities, and built an extension to 'the table' that is just as good as the ones everyone else already has a seat at?

Or should I withhold my vote from the Democrats because they weren't perfect... and let Republicans thank me as they try to brazenly remove rights and protections for everyone they don't consider to be apart of the desirables?

In fact, I already know that the Democrats don't have to work hard to get my and other minorities' vote because that low bar was lowered so low by Republicans that just not spitting on us is legitimate forward process. I and many others simply don't have the luxury to wait for a perfect party to come down out of the heavens because the Republicans continually try to pull down that bar lower. So much so that just adjusting to its previously low point actually brings a sigh of relief.

And that's not even getting to the corporate part. I have no love lost for Corporate Democrats. It's why I became a Progressive. But while it might offend yours and my sensibilities, all the things Corporates do for their Business Overlords, they are not actively trying to destroy a segment of the population.

So, yeah. That makes them the lesser evil. Which is usually the only thing that you can hope for when you deal with Politics and Government. We can ask Che Guevara and his good friend Fidel Castro what happens when lofty ideals meet actual power. Literally half the time, it corrupts.

I get the Low Bar. I get why it sucks that all the Corporates have to say to minorities and women is "yeah, you're people. You're owed a say" and they will get votes. But it also legitimately sucks that it will take legal processes to restore all of the things that Trump and his administration undone (From Human Rights to Environmental Protections).

Malign Corporates for being whores of Capitalism. Have it. But then malign Republicans for their odious tactics just as vociferously for making Democrats the only safe option there is.

It sucks not to have options. I do not have the option to wait for something better. I don't need to win all at once, but I need to make sure that the future generations of my extended family that are going to be born this year will not have less freedoms than I had when I was born into this nation. That will not happen with Republicans in charge.
It does suck but it'll suck even more when in 2022/2024, Republicans retake everything because The Democrats do jack and shit because their bar is "Don't be Trump" and they're going to do their damndest to get over that one bar and that's it and no one seems all that interested in making them try to do anything above that.

Honestly, I do wish I had an answer or even just a vague general strategy but I don't. People supporting The Democrats are so petrified of losing the crumbs they drop that they're not willing to hold them accountable or try to even put the slightest bit of pressure on them to actually fight. Instead, we're going to get 2-4 years of nothing fundamentally changing, Republicans retaking everything, and then being told we HAVE to vote for the Corporate Machine Democrat. The Cycle Repeats.

I honestly do wish I had a better answer or even the idea of a solution but I don't. Everyone (or at least enough people) seem to be perfectly fine with this shit show so we're going to just stay in the shit show until either this place finally crumbles completely or we die.
 

Hades

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Donald junior's speech kinda gave me fascist vibes. That probably was the intention.

And Trump's speech immediately starts out with the worst things he could say.
 
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ObsidianJones

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It does suck but it'll suck even more when in 2022/2024, Republicans retake everything because The Democrats do jack and shit because their bar is "Don't be Trump" and they're going to do their damndest to get over that one bar and that's it and no one seems all that interested in making them try to do anything above that.

Honestly, I do wish I had an answer or even just a vague general strategy but I don't. People supporting The Democrats are so petrified of losing the crumbs they drop that they're not willing to hold them accountable or try to even put the slightest bit of pressure on them to actually fight. Instead, we're going to get 2-4 years of nothing fundamentally changing, Republicans retaking everything, and then being told we HAVE to vote for the Corporate Machine Democrat. The Cycle Repeats.

I honestly do wish I had a better answer or even the idea of a solution but I don't. Everyone (or at least enough people) seem to be perfectly fine with this shit show so we're going to just stay in the shit show until either this place finally crumbles completely or we die.
I'm fine with this? I hate it. It's one of the many reasons why once I get my commercial pilot license, I'm making tracks to Toronto. This country doesn't want me, and I'm tired of having people berate me (not you) for choosing people who at least give me lip service.

Trump clowned around for 4 years and made us a laughing stock. What you consider crumbs is trying to get federal protections reinstated for others. This is survival for some. This is trying to root out the Cult who chase down people who have different opinions than them. Can anyone really look at the state of America, from the virus to the partianship to the gutted programs to the millions upon millions that need help and reasonably expect it all to be fixed in a year, in order to give us three more years of new horizons to conquer?

Hate the Corporates. As I say, I do as well. But we should all at least give an accurate assessment of what crap pile they inherited and base actual, reasonable time tables to get these things done by.
 
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Adam Jensen

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Christ, what a moron. He's trying to force the GOP to refuse to certify the electoral votes, but since he's destroying his own party, the only thing he'll accomplish is the exact opposite. When he's out of the White House, he will no longer have their protection. If anything, the GOP will benefit from exposing Trump for what it is because their only salvation is to try to claw their way back from the far right. And to do that, they first have to convince Trump's voters to abandon Trump.
 

Houseman

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Christ, what a moron. He's trying to force the GOP to refuse to certify the electoral votes, but since he's destroying his own party, the only thing he'll accomplish is the exact opposite. When he's out of the White House, he will no longer have their protection. If anything, the GOP will benefit from exposing Trump for what it is because their only salvation is to try to claw their way back from the far right. And to do that, they first have to convince Trump's voters to abandon Trump.
I've heard people say that they aren't part of the Republican party, they're part of the Trump party. In their eyes, Trump is the one fighting BOTH parties on behalf of the people.
 

Avnger

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I've heard people say that they aren't part of the Republican party, they're part of the Trump party. In their eyes, Trump is the one fighting BOTH parties on behalf of the people.
HowToKnowYourePartOfACult2.jpeg
 
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tstorm823

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Is this where you pretend the past ~60 years of change in the US political parties never occurred?
I don't pretend that no change has occurred, but the changes aren't two groups of people swapping party affiliation for the fun of it. Other people pretend that current Republicans are somehow identical to 1960s Democratic segregationists because it's a convenient way to run from their own party's history.
 

Kwak

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Well, your second link you must not have read, because it's about scientific research and medicine, not the sort of evidence one would gather for a criminal investigation.

Your first link just lists different types of evidence, and says nothing about objectively measuring strength or weaknesses. For example, from the types of your own link, here's a quiz: Which is "stronger", Digital evidence or Exculpatory evidence?
exculpatory
 

tstorm823

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People who didn't want the black vote to matter. The parties may have changed but those people will always be in America, making sure minorities can't change an election.
Again, an opportunity for my favorite soapbox. I, the Republican, believe in progress. That today is better than yesterday, and tomorrow will be even better.

You, apparently, do not believe in progress, believing instead that a fixed group of racists is permanent and there's nothing to be done about it.

I'm progressive. I don't quite know what all you people are.
 

Hades

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I've heard people say that they aren't part of the Republican party, they're part of the Trump party. In their eyes, Trump is the one fighting BOTH parties on behalf of the people.
Which is nonsense. Openly corrupt businessmen don't fight on behalf of the people, and those that fight on behalf of the people don't give tax cuts to the uber rich while taking healthcare away from the poor.
 

Adam Jensen

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74 million people voted for this imbecile. How does a person with at least average IQ look at that guy and thinks to him/herself that Trump is their guy, the guy that will set things right, the smart guy who knows his stuff. How the actual fuck can anyone, let alone 74 million people, be that fuckin' stupid?
 

Seanchaidh

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Donald junior's speech kinda gave me fascist vibes. That probably was the intention.

And Trump's speech immediately starts out with the worst things he could say.
Do you believe with the president and us in the final total victory of the Trump movement? Are you and the German, I mean American, people willing to work, if the Führer president orders, 10, 12 and if necessary 14 hours a day and to give everything for victory? Do you want total war? If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even imagine today?

Again, an opportunity for my favorite soapbox. I, the Republican, believe in progress. That today is better than yesterday, and tomorrow will be even better.

You, apparently, do not believe in progress, believing instead that a fixed group of racists is permanent and there's nothing to be done about it.

I'm progressive. I don't quite know what all you people are.
Interesting how you seem to elide the difference between description and prescription.

But no, believing that progress occurs-- somehow-- doesn't make you progressive any more than believing that fires happen makes you an arsonist.
 
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