Stuff You've Changed Your Mind On

[happyninja42]

So I made a thread like this many years ago, on the version 1 of this site, figured I'd redo it and see what others have to share.

Pretty self-explanitory, what things, as far as Films/TV that you have seen in the past, that you have had a change of heart about. Either loving to hating, or vice versa. I'd prefer Hate to Love examples, as that just makes for a less potentially toxic thread discussion (in theory), and because personally I just like hearing how things change to something you enjoy. The other option is fine too, but please don't use this as a platform to debate why something really does/doesn't suck based on someone elses response. It's simply to display examples of personal changes in opinion on things, with a relook, or change of perspective.

So for me, the film that inspired this was V for Vendetta. I remember seeing it in theaters when it first released, and REALLY being frustrated with it. I wouldn't say I hated it, but I was definitely unhappy with my viewing experience, and I remember being vocally annoyed with it in the theater.

However, a decade or so later, I recalled various scenes from the film, and found myself liking the clips. I would look them up on youtube to rewatch them, and I found myself enjoying them. And as the little scenes started adding up that I enjoyed in retrospect, I asked myself "Wait, DO I hate this film? I don't think I do anymore, given I am enjoying these clips so much." So I sat down, and rewatched it, and I found I really enjoyed it, like, a lot. TOTAL change in opinion of the film.

I chalk it up to being burned by the previous Matrix 2&3, as they had recently come out and I really didn't like that. And being sort of very critical of the Wachowski's after that. The Matrix films left a bad taste in my mouth, and I took that feeling into V for Vendetta. Or at least that's my theory on why I didn't enjoy it so much. I remember comparing it to the wordiness of Matrix 2&3, and disliking it as a result.

But yeah, with time, a little aging, and some distance from my mindset back in 2005, I've come to enjoy the film a great deal.

So what examples of a similar situation do you have? If any?

 

[Hawki]

I'm afraid this is mostly going to be negative, but:

Captain Planet and the Planeteers

Spoiler

There's any number of children's cartoons I can go back to and be less invested, because by their nature, children's cartoons are intended for, well, children. However, some cartoons hold up better than others. CP is a cartoon I grew up on, but when I rewatched season 1...yikes.

To be honest, I do think a lot of criticisms about the show don't hold up, for instance, Heart being the most useless power, when it's not, and it's explained why it isn't in the pilot episode. And it's also incorrect to say that the show is about bad guys who like to pollute because they're bad guys. Some, yes, but others aren't - I've said that with the villain roster, you can basically divide them into eco-terrorists (e.g. Dr. Blight) and "scumbag businessmen" (e.g. Looten Plunder). But that aside, the problem with the show is that it gives answers to problems that, as an adult, I know are far more complicated. I'll spare you the irony that the Planeteers use a solar powered plane, and if they handed off the technology they could cut down plane emissions and do more good than anything else, but I'll use this example. In one episode, there's a nuclear power plant that's established to be poorly constructed. Duke Nukem comes in and tries to sabotage it. The meltdown is avoided, and Captain Planet drills a hole so that a geothermal plant can be built. The end. A child will go away thinking that the moral is "nuclear power is bad, geothermal is good, we should build geothermal plants." As an adult, I can say that it isn't that simple. Geothermal plants can't be constructed everywhere, and would be insanely expensive to build, and I can also say that nuclear power is actually one of the safest forms of power that there is. Not without problems, but nuclear power has a bad rep that isn't really justified. But the episode has a simple message that belies real-world complexities.

And yes, I know, children's cartoon, recycle and all that, but CP rubs me the wrong way in these areas, even if it does sometimes acknowledge the complexities of some issues (e.g. a deforestation episode where it isn't so much that "cutting down trees is bad," but "if you're going to cut down trees, do it properly, because if you're like Hoggish Greedly and cut down trees too close to the river, erosion will become a major problem"). But, yeah. Also doesn't help that the puns are terrible and none of the cast is that well developed. In the end, I'll always have fondness for this show, but I can't ignore the problems it has.

The Chronicles of Narnia

This isn't really changing my mind on something, but old me reading this did it at surface level. Adult me can see the religious analogies better. So simultaniously that helped me like some aspects more (e.g. Aslan's sacrifice being akin to Jesus's on the cross) and dislike aspects more as well (book 7, like, all of it).

Dragon Ball Z

Spoiler

DBZ and me go back to high school, where I was introduced to the series in the Captain Ginyu arc, and where my enjoyment was "fighting, explosions, shouts, kewl!" As an adult though? Ugh. Assinine dialogue, lots of filler, and I've got conceptual problems with the show as well, on two levels. The first is that its approach to victory is "get stronger" in every case. Villain A comes, heroes defeat Villain A. Villain B comes, is stronger than Villian A, heroes train to beat Villian B. Villain C comes and, look, you get the idea. This isn't bad in of itself, but it becomes very trite. I can't help but think of many other heroes where their 'power level' remains the same, so they have to adapt to beat the bad guys in various ways. But DBZ has another issue, and that's what I refer to as biological determinism. Basically, in this setting, you're either a saiyan, or you're useless. As in, it's in-universe that no human will ever be as powerful as a saiyan can be. One species is outright 'better' than another. Now, this isn't new per se (take elves and humans for instance), but usually there's something to offset this (e.g. humans have better numbers). DBZ however, doesn't do this. And while I doubt the series thinks much of this, it does mean that practically speaking, one group of characters is inherently more valuable than another set.

Harry Potter

Very minor, but I tried Book 1 when it came out, and didn't like it. Around the time of Prisoner of Azkaban, I tried again, and got into it this time, and stayed with the series.

Legend of Zelda

Used to dislike Wind Waker. But then I tried it again, years later, and it became my favourite entry in the series.

Lord of the Rings

See above. More with the books, in that I couldn't get into them as a kid, but when I got older, I did. Kind of. Mostly. The books are very dense, and not ones I'd read for fun in of themselves, but I can appreciate them more. Granted, seeing the movies helped, in that it gave me a template.

Spider-Man

Y'know that 90s animated series? Yeah. Loved it as a kid. But Spectacular Spider-Man made it look worse by default, because SSM gave me ambrosia, while the 90s series left me with watered down beer.

Star Wars

I've said elsewhere that before seeing Force Awakens, I did a rewatch of the prior live-action films. My opinion changed on each of these films for good or ill, but Phantom Menace changed the most. Loved it as a kid, but as an adult, it plummeted in my estimation.

 

[BrawlMan]

So for me, the film that inspired this was V for Vendetta. I remember seeing it in theaters when it first released, and REALLY being frustrated with it. I wouldn't say I hated it, but I was definitely unhappy with my viewing experience, and I remember being vocally annoyed with it in the theater.

However, a decade or so later, I recalled various scenes from the film, and found myself liking the clips. I would look them up on youtube to rewatch them, and I found myself enjoying them. And as the little scenes started adding up that I enjoyed in retrospect, I asked myself "Wait, DO I hate this film? I don't think I do anymore, given I am enjoying these clips so much." So I sat down, and rewatched it, and I found I really enjoyed it, like, a lot. TOTAL change in opinion of the film.

I chalk it up to being burned by the previous Matrix 2&3, as they had recently come out and I really didn't like that. And being sort of very critical of the Wachowski's after that. The Matrix films left a bad taste in my mouth, and I took that feeling into V for Vendetta. Or at least that's my theory on why I didn't enjoy it so much. I remember comparing it to the wordiness of Matrix 2&3, and disliking it as a result.

V for Vendetta I rarely ever had a problem with. I know it's different from the actual comics, and Alan Moore hates the film with a passion, but I thought it was a good film on its own merits. The Matrix sequels I still dislike, but I have a bigger appreciation for The Animatrix than I did back then. Never hated the Animatrix, but I always saw it as okay, outside of one or two stories. Now I enjoy most of the stories in the anthology movie.

Ghost in the Shell (1995). Not the crappy live action version. I always thought the film was boring and up its own ass. I gave it a second watch in 2016 after seeing one of Benett's old anime reviews. The first time I saw the film was at the age of 12 around the summer of 2001. After seeing it again with fresh eyes, I still believe there are pacing issues and plot can still be confusing on a first time viewing. As iconic as the first scene is, you're not exactly sure why Motoko is even there, until way after the fact. Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (Never saw it until early 2017 when they rer-eleased it on blur ray with the excellent Bandai dub) fixes that problem, and I believe is the better movie. At least these two movies were trying to do something useful or break new ground. Ironic, because the Japanese audience disliked the animated movies, yet praise the live-action film for doing what the original did in 95. Just goes to show people don't know what they want.

DBZ - While I have fond memories of it, I rather not go through all that bullshit again. DBZ is full retcons, really dumb character moments, and bad fanfiction levels of quality writing. Which got even worse with Super. I'll occasionally watch certain scenes on YT or DBZ Abridged, but that's it. I'm all variety when it comes to anime. I can't with one type of genre as certain anime fans claim when really a majority in the West only watch or two type of shows.

Legend of Korra - My hate for this show grows deeper each year. I thought the show was okay, but after multiple viewings; espeically of seasons 3 & 4, the quality only diminished. Multiple retcons that destroy the mythology and Yin-Yang philosophy for generic Light vs. Dark (fuck everything in Seasons 2), character assassination or having the old cast do things out-of-character (Aang and Toph especially suffered from this), fustrating new ones that are useless or not funny, copying the worst aspects of DBZ/DBZ fanfiction (once again, fuck you Season 2), and the deus ex machina that was the ending of Season 1.

Also, the fuck the horrible romance. They wasted two seasons on a bad love triangle that got annoying and too much in the way of the plot. ATALB had basic romance, but it never got in the way of the overall story. Now some of the comic continuations had that problem, but we won't talk about that. The more I see it, the more I see that Mike & Bryan got high off their hype from the previous show, and did not learn or made worst mistakes than their previous show. Avatar had its own share of problems: certain story arcs were dropped or rushed, energy bending was an ass pull no matter if they planned to introduce it, yet could not find the time (then don't waste time on filler or certain side characters that don't mean much), and big gaps in schedule of releasing episodes in the STATES. Yet other countries got episodes of Season 3 earlier than the US for some reason. Though that is more of a fault of Nick, than the production team. That does not change the fact they still screwed up badly, and is in the same league as fucking up like Bleach or Naruto. The fact I sold all of my LOK season box sets 8 months after the show ended proves my point. The twist with Asami and Korra being a couple with not much hint or subtly, aside from unofficial fan wank/fan theories from Season 3, were only done to have a pat on the back and say "Hey, we're progressive too". Who do you think people are going to remember LOK for? The sequel to one of the best animated series of the early 2000s, or the show where two of the lead female characters become lesbians just to seem progressive?

Sorry to sound cynical about that last part. I don't mind equality, but I've seen parts like this done better in Steven Universe, and I don't even like that show.

 

[Worgen]

Well, I know I have a decent number of these things but the only one that comes to mind at the moment is Blizzard. I used to be a fan of theirs but then I got hired for a job with them, but when I went in for training I found out that I didn't have a job, there was some kind of mixup and it turns out I didn't have a job and they just didn't call me. What really gets in my craw though is that my friend who was hired at the same time did get a call to move his training to the late shift and if that didn't happen then we would have driven up together which would have meant he would need to find a ride back. Also because I showed up for training I was apparently black listed by them, but I just heard this after the fact so it might not be true, either way, fuck blizzard, I hope they go out of business.

 

[happyninja42]

V for Vendetta I rarely ever had a problem with. I know it's different from the actual comics, and Alan Moore hates the film with a passion, but I thought it was a good film on its own merits. The Matrix sequels I still dislike,

Yeah I honestly feel that's why I had such a negative reaction to V at first. My leftover frustration with Matrix sequels.

but I have a bigger appreciation for The Animatrix than I did back then. Never hated the Animatrix, but I always saw it as okay, outside of one or two stories. Now I enjoy most of the stories in the anthology movie.

Yeah I really enjoyed the Animatrix, still do. Some of them I love for the music they chose, coupled with the scenes used. Like...I forget the name of it, but it's the story where it's the skater kid in highschool, and the Agents come for him. When I first saw that, and they started playing Masters of the Universe by Juno Reactor (A personal favorite band of mine, and that song kicks SO much ass for me), just...GAH! The buildup of that...the way the song is slowly growing in the background, and I know how it's going to crash heavy at the drop...and the kid deciding it's time to embrace his thoughts on reality, and just GO. SO FUCKING GOOD! xD One of my favorite examples of excellent use of soundtrack to couple with a visual story. I admit I'm a sucker for music, and powerful drum beats are pretty much crack for me, but the whole song works for me. The synthesizer sounds coupled with the woman chanting in a powerful way, and the drums, just SO good. So I'm a bit biased to that sequence, but I still think it holds up despite my biases xD

The other videos I recall liking for the most part. Final Flight of the Osiris was good, though most of the others I don't even remember really. Sitting here typing this, those are the only 2 that come to mind from that show.

Never watched DBZ, other than the Abridged version by Team FourStar. Fun thing is they do the comedy in that so well, you don't need a knowledge of the show to get it. Like, 95% of the humor is completely public in nature. Only rarely do they make a deep cut joke that I'm like "....wut?" But otherwise, it's just good damn comedy.

 

[gorfias]

I was angry over what now seems pretty small potatoes with regards to another Alan Moore comic book to movie property: The Watchmen. I missed the squid ending. I thought Rorschach's failure to challenge the very existence of G-d with his true origin story a cop out. And it really was. But reflecting upon the movie today? These are quibbles. The movie is a master piece and I should have been grateful for what we got.

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah I really enjoyed the Animatrix, still do. Some of them I love for the music they chose, coupled with the scenes used. Like...I forget the name of it, but it's the story where it's the skater kid in highschool, and the Agents come for him

It's called Kid's Story.

My favorites are Program, World Record, and A Detective Story. Shinichiro Watanabe (of Cowboy Bebop fame) did A Detective Story and Kids' Story. While Program and World Record were done by Yoshiaki Kawajiri (Nina Scroll).





I think another reason for my Matrix frustration was due to me being tired of the stoicism is cool/badass, leather, and bullet time were getting ridiculous or old hat. Especially the leather. Jet Li's The One makes the Matrix sequels in to a bigger joke. Not to mention, I've just kept thinking of video game protagonist that would be more interesting in the matrix or just break it entire. That's not the movies' fault, but that was teenage me going nuts with my imagination. Dante from DMC1 & 3 showed how stoic is cool was truly boring.

 

[Trunkage]

I was angry over what now seems pretty small potatoes with regards to another Alan Moore comic book to movie property: The Watchmen. I missed the squid ending. I thought Rorschach's failure to challenge the very existence of G-d with his true origin story a cop out. And it really was. But reflecting upon the movie today? These are quibbles. The movie is a master piece and I should have been grateful for what we got.

I think that's a close you are ever going to get to a excellent adaptation of that comic boom. But I also think the movie ending adds a bit more to Manhattan's history. And I'm not one who was against Superman seen as an alien invader that could be super dangerous. And see Christopher Reeve's Superman as utter trash basically because it has such nonsense

 

[gorfias]

I think that's a close you are ever going to get to a excellent adaptation of that comic boom. But I also think the movie ending adds a bit more to Manhattan's history. And I'm not one who was against Superman seen as an alien invader that could be super dangerous. And see Christopher Reeve's Superman as utter trash basically because it has such nonsense

Did you ever get to read or hear about Batman (1989) script writer Sam Hamm's stab at it?

Spoiler

I think the over all plot was Ozy was trying to open a portal in time big enough to fit a sniper rifle into and assassinate Doctor Manhattan before he gains his powers

So, yeah, I best be grateful for what we got!
There's a lot I love about C. Reeve's Superman. He embodied what I though Superman would look like in real life. And I keep in mind when it was made. The people making it, if they ever read comics at all, it would likely have been during the staunch code days, before Stan Lee et. al. revolutionized comics. Maybe they saw Adam West play Batman. In II, the fight in Times Square? Left my jaw dropped. Of course, it does not stand up to today's "Logan" or "Captain America: Winter Soldier". It's been a new ball game for some time.

 

[happyninja42]

It's called Kid's Story.

Ah yes, that one. Loved that one .

I think another reason for my Matrix frustration was due to me being tired of the stoicism is cool/badass, leather, and bullet time were getting ridiculous or old hat. Especially the leather. Jet Li's The One makes the Matrix sequels in to a bigger joke. Not to mention, I've just kept thinking of video game protagonist that would be more interesting in the matrix or just break it entire. That's not the movies' fault, but that was teenage me going nuts with my imagination. Dante from DMC1 & 3 showed how stoic is cool was truly boring.

I don't recall being frustrated with the cool/badass leather thing. I mean that was just a staple of The Matrix. I don't find that particular affectation very compelling over all, but to me it's like being mad at Batman being dressed like...well...Batman, in a Batman movie

My issue was, at least in the context of why it made me dislike V for Vendetta at first, was the dialogue. The constant, ever present, pervasive monologuing of characters. The Matrix sequels left me feeling like they head their heads so far up their own asses that it just made me roll my eyes when V was like "let me tell you something...*intake of breath*" i was like "oh god, not again, 2 minutes of dialogue screen time." It kept making me think of the Architect scene in the second film, and I just turned off with V in the theater. But, like I said, with time and distance, and not instantly comparing it to the other thing made by those same creators, and just looking at it by itself, I found I really enjoyed it.

Though yes, the stoic badass trope, is very boring. I fully agree there. I usually like it when they do it as a joke, like having someone there as a foil for Mr. Grizzled Chin McGrowlface, but just as a hero themselves, I usually find them dull. There IS a way to do them well I think, but few creators actually pull it off I think.

 

[BrawlMan]

but to me it's like being mad at Batman being dressed like...well...Batman, in a Batman movie

At least Batman can, laugh, smile, make a joke, and has dry wit. The many movies that copied the Matrix in the leather coat/stoic personality was not helping. AKA, The Underworld movies being the most famous example. How that got so many sequels is beyond me. The Underworld franchise is one of the most boring action films I have ever seen.

My issue was, at least in the context of why it made me dislike V for Vendetta at first, was the dialogue. The constant, ever present, pervasive monologuing of characters. The Matrix sequels left me feeling like they head their heads so far up their own asses that it just made me roll my eyes when V was like "let me tell you something...*intake of breath*" i was like "oh god, not again, 2 minutes of dialogue screen time." It kept making me think of the Architect scene in the second film, and I just turned off with V in the theater. But, like I said, with time and distance, and not instantly comparing it to the other thing made by those same creators, and just looking at it by itself, I found I really enjoyed it.

Agreed. I did not even see the third film until barely in to college in someone's dorm.

Though yes, the stoic badass trope, is very boring. I fully agree there. I usually like it when they do it as a joke, like having someone there as a foil for Mr. Grizzled Chin McGrowlface, but just as a hero themselves, I usually find them dull. There IS a way to do them well I think, but few creators actually pull it off I think.

Vampire Hunter D does it the best. Specifically in the movie Bloodlust. The only one other one that does it well is Mondo Zappa from Killer Is Dead, but it's played as a joke when needed.

 

[ralfy]

This article about The Empire Strikes Back:

Why The Empire Strikes Back is overrated

The general consensus is that the second in the Star Wars trilogy - released 40 years ago - is the best. In fact, it’s to blame for the franchise’s problems, writes Nicholas Barber.

www.bbc.com

 

[happyninja42]

Vampire Hunter D does it the best. Specifically in the movie Bloodlust. The only one other one that does it well is Mondo Zappa from Killer Is Dead, but it's played as a joke when needed.

I think my favorite example of the stoic dude, and, this might not be a good example really? But that really tall, muscular guy in Bleach. The one that punched people instead of using a sword. His entire character arc (at least until I stopped watching), was all about being emotionless, and staying as stoic as he could. But I liked when they explained the reason for it in his background episode. That he was basically conditioned by his father, to always keep himself contained, restrained, because he was so much stronger than the other kids, that he might hurt someone. It wasn't done out of malice, it just sort of leashed him mentally for his whole life. And while he didn't stop being the neutral personality guy, it was really awesome to see him break free of that restraint to a degree he was comfortable with, and become more proactive.

Not sure how things continued for that guy, I stopped watching around season 2 I think,when the whole Soul Society arc started. But in the beginning, I really loved his depiction.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think my favorite example of the stoic dude, and, this might not be a good example really? But that really tall, muscular guy in Bleach. The one that punched people instead of using a sword. His entire character arc (at least until I stopped watching), was all about being emotionless, and staying as stoic as he could. But I liked when they explained the reason for it in his background episode. That he was basically conditioned by his father, to always keep himself contained, restrained, because he was so much stronger than the other kids, that he might hurt someone. It wasn't done out of malice, it just sort of leashed him mentally for his whole life. And while he didn't stop being the neutral personality guy, it was really awesome to see him break free of that restraint to a degree he was comfortable with, and become more proactive.

Not sure how things continued for that guy, I stopped watching around season 2 I think,when the whole Soul Society arc started. But in the beginning, I really loved his depiction.

The character you are thinking about it is called Chad. I stopped watching Bleach after the rescue Rukia arc ended. Also, Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star is another stoic character done correctly.

 

[happyninja42]

The character you are thinking about it is called Chad. I stopped watching Bleach after the rescue Rukia arc ended. Also, Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star is another stoic character done correctly.

Chad! Yes him, I loved Chad xD And yeah I stopped watching about...midway into the Rukia rescue arc? Maybe a little less. I remember a little girl giggling in a puddle of blood, and I think that was the last episode I saw

 

[BrawlMan]

Chad! Yes him, I loved Chad xD And yeah I stopped watching about...midway into the Rukia rescue arc? Maybe a little less. I remember a little girl giggling in a puddle of blood, and I think that was the last episode I saw

Don't remember that part as its been too long. Haven't looked at Bleach since 2008. Most shounen shows/manga drag on way too long, and are full of wasted potential.

 

[happyninja42]

Don't remember that part as its been too long. Haven't looked at Bleach since 2008. Most shounen shows/manga drag on way too long, and are full of wasted potential.

Damn it was 12 years ago ? Le sigh.

 

[BrawlMan]

Scott Pilgrim: The Movie. I saw a few times, and laughed. Nowadays, it just sits on the DVD shelf doing nothing. The pacing is odd, and Scott is a fucking dick. I know that's the point, but there is no real reason to root for him. I am aware of the comics, but that does not solved the issue.

EDIT: Sold it last year in 2021.

 

[happyninja42]

Scott Pilgrim: The Movie. I saw a few times, and laughed. Nowadays, it just sits on the DVD shelf doing nothing. The pacing is odd, and Scott is f#cking dick. I know that's the point, but there is no real reason to root for him. I am aware of the comics, but that does not solved the issue.

Never saw that, or read the comics. Not a huge fan of Michael Cena so it didn't really tweak my fancy. I'm trying to think of a film that had Cena in it that I've seen, other than Juno....and I honestly can't think of one. Plus the entire premise just seemed kind of meh to me. "Oh, I have to fight to win your affections? Yeah, no thanks lady, I'm not jumping through combat hoops for your ass."

I've also heard a few critics say that the way it should've ended, was for Scott to end up with the asian woman, don't know her name. But the girl that is actually into him, that he avoids like the plague because....reasons? *shrugs* Like I said, just wasn't my thing.

OT: Signs. I still enjoy this movie on some levels, but the blatant Hollywood Atheist trope that is the premise, really annoys me these days. I used to not really notice that, but after being openly atheist, I've come to notice how media portrays them, and how painfully wrong it is, on so many levels. And how, a story that is actually a horrible case for their god, is portrayed as some kind of life fulfilling event, or some such bullshit.

Like, ok god, so, you knew about an upcoming invasion of aliens, so instead of using your OMNIPOTENT abilities to...oh I don't know, STOP it from happening, or clearly and concisely warning the entire planet so they could prepare super soakers....instead...your grand plan...is to set up events to have my wife CUT IN HALF by a sleeping driver, so that as she's dying, and the blood is draining from her brain and she's clearly delusional, you can sneak in a cryptic message to me, that won't pay off for over a year or whatever, and still requires my 2 dogs to die, along with who knows how many other people. So I had to lose my wife, my children now have to grow up without a mother, our family is broken, but hey, thanks for giving me that warning god! I feel so inspired now I will put on my priest collar again and preach your divine grace to the people! So that one day, if they too are lucky, they can ALSO have their loved ones die horribly at your command, to convey a message that is cryptic as shit, years later. Yay god!

And I'm just like....*facepalm*

Oh, Green Mile is like this for me as well, for the same reason. God in that film is a horrible dick, who sets up Hank's character with a no win situation, and then punishes him with potentially thousands of years of life, for something he didn't even want to do. But hey, let's not worry about that shit, let's just falsely portray atheists as heartless demons and assholes in every depiction of them. Let's portray it as believing in a god is the "natural" default state of humanity, and if you don't believe, it MUST be because something tragic happened, so you are ANGRY AT GOD. And by the end of the film, you will be "healed" or "fixed" of your false hatred, and love him again. Because he set up a series of coincidences that only appear to have been orchestrated after the fact, and still have it look like "it was all my plan from the start! even your tragedy! love me and worship me now!"

So yeah, not a fan of those these days, and other films like them.

 

[Trunkage]

This article about The Empire Strikes Back:

Why The Empire Strikes Back is overrated

The general consensus is that the second in the Star Wars trilogy - released 40 years ago - is the best. In fact, it’s to blame for the franchise’s problems, writes Nicholas Barber.

www.bbc.com

Yeah, Empire certainly did break the themes and feel of the first movie, didn't make a lot of sense, had most characters waste their time getting chased while one character gets training for what, maybe a week? Probably 2 to 3 days. That sure will make him a master. Made you realise that Obi-wan is an asshole for lying and sending 1 jedi against the whole Empire despite him hiding away because he's a coward. Yodas a coward, 'sure I'll train you but I definitely wont fight WITH you.' Great job Jedi. Your making old Luke look good.