I know this isn't the hot takes thread, but I'd describe GoW '18 's combat as 'like Bloodborne, but fun'.
What are you currently playing?
- Thread starter Nick Calandra
- Start date
Ah, was doing Doom2, yeah, that might explain it.
Oh, sparkles and colourful costumes. Also weird mechanics I don't think I understand, but will look into that.
Well Platinum offered their services to other publishers and here were the results: Sega said no due to financial loss, huge lay offs, and corporate restructuring. Microsoft said no. Sony said they would think about, meaning no. Fucking Sony being dickwads. Nintendo came to Platinum, so it was an offer they could not refuse. If console exclusivity means more sequels, so be it. At least Platinum are in great hands. I just wish they did not blow their load so early and announce Bayonetta 3 in 2017 with still no footage to show other than that teaser trailer at the game awards.
I am not picky when it comes to resolution, but I do see your point. The game runs at a solid 60fps and the game still looks beautiful, so there won't be much complaining from me.
Also, this game, and hopefully 3, needs a restart checkpoint exactly like Metal Gear Rising and Transformers: Devastation. There is no excuse not to do it. Trying to go for PP runs is a pain and so quitting to title, selecting save file, and go to continue.
Last edited:
Actually finished Hades, like all the plot related quests and stuff. Now just have various objectives to do laundry lists of things, nothing really story specific. So, while I can easily keep trying for higher Heat scores and such, for the most part I'm done with it.
It was fun. Very enjoyable, humorous game. Great wit, great writing, great characters. I liked how they took the story of Hades and Persephone, and only slightly tweaked it to be the basis of their plot for the game. It felt updated to modern sensibilities, but also very mythologically fitting. So, nice work there.
I liked how they let me play Wingman to several different couples in the game. I dunno, but I found myself more invested in having Zagreus getting other people hooked up in hell, than himself. I guess the fact that in doing so, I was defying Hades' edicts for their punishment, and basically saying "Everybody gets conjugal visits damnit! I can't completely free you from the Underworld, but you can at least get some nooky!"
I was a bit annoyed by the fact that the game prevents you from having multiple conversations with the various denizens of the House in a single run. For example, I kept trying to talk to Person X, about their personal plotline, but since they were also tied to several other plots tangentially, those kept taking precedence in the conversations. So I'd have to go run the dungeon again, and go back to them...oh, ok this time they aren't even in their spot, they're off map for some reason....ok, run it AGAIN. Ok they're back in their spot, good, will they talk about the thing I want to discuss? ....no...it's something else.....gah! So that was a tad frustrating.
The gameplay was fun, the combat styles for each weapon were interesting, and the way each run could be vastly different, simply due to the rewards in each room, made for a lot of variety in repetition. Solid game.
It was fun. Very enjoyable, humorous game. Great wit, great writing, great characters. I liked how they took the story of Hades and Persephone, and only slightly tweaked it to be the basis of their plot for the game. It felt updated to modern sensibilities, but also very mythologically fitting. So, nice work there.
I liked how they let me play Wingman to several different couples in the game. I dunno, but I found myself more invested in having Zagreus getting other people hooked up in hell, than himself. I guess the fact that in doing so, I was defying Hades' edicts for their punishment, and basically saying "Everybody gets conjugal visits damnit! I can't completely free you from the Underworld, but you can at least get some nooky!"
I was a bit annoyed by the fact that the game prevents you from having multiple conversations with the various denizens of the House in a single run. For example, I kept trying to talk to Person X, about their personal plotline, but since they were also tied to several other plots tangentially, those kept taking precedence in the conversations. So I'd have to go run the dungeon again, and go back to them...oh, ok this time they aren't even in their spot, they're off map for some reason....ok, run it AGAIN. Ok they're back in their spot, good, will they talk about the thing I want to discuss? ....no...it's something else.....gah! So that was a tad frustrating.
The gameplay was fun, the combat styles for each weapon were interesting, and the way each run could be vastly different, simply due to the rewards in each room, made for a lot of variety in repetition. Solid game.
- Apr 1, 2009
- 14,525
- 3,470
- 118
- Gender
- Whatever, just wash your hands.
Some other cool mods are Pirates!, Unsound Mound (another horror one), and Winters Fury. Those should keep you busy for a bit.
Afterparty
So this is one of these games that's really hard to explain why it's worth a look. Like it's predecessor OxenFree, this is a game built around about 5 hours of two character walking and talking around a series of locations. While in Oxenfree, it was a mostly wilderness island with ghosts that would pop up every so often, here it's a depiction of Hell.
The Premise is fairly simple. Lola and Milo are close friends and recent college grads on the cusp of real life and adulthood....and then wake up in Hell together with no memory of how they died or what they did to deserve it. For much of the game, they remain ignorant of both, because Hell has strict office hours of 9 to 6 and once 6 pm rolls around, all the torture stops and everyone heads off for a long night of debauchery, Demon and Humans alike(apparently it's hard to torture 24/7, so the off hours are for the demons as much as the humans). You later find out how they died but not what they did(but considering one person's crime was "Abusing the express lane at the grocery story numerous times" one can only imagine getting into hell is pretty easy), not that it matters much either way.
Arriving just before closing, Lola and Milo are left to start their first night in hell at the nearest bar and are given some pointers by a friendly Psychopomp named Sam(who is basically an infernal cab driver, ferrying passengers to the different parts of the underworld). Sam acts as the Duo's guide for much of the nights journey and tips them off that Satan, The Prince of Partying, holds ragers at his house all night, every night and has a standing challenge to anyone who can drink him under the table that he'll let them go back to Earth and get a 2nd chance at life. The goal ends up being to do just that, but of course, it's never that simple.
On the surface, the game is basically a bar crawl across hell over the course of a single night, not unlike the premise of the film "The Worlds End"(with demons instead of aliens) and much like that film, there's lots of darkly humorous dialogue with a fair bit of Snark. However, after the first hour or so(where the whole premise and groove is getting set in motion), it becomes apparent that the writing is a bit deeper then "Young Adults being Snarky". Lola and Milo are revealed to have a number of flaws and insecurities(like most people and especially people just getting out of college who weren't really outstanding in anything, other then being kinda lonerish). The plenty of talking and walking and drinking gives them ample oppurtuniy for said feelings to come to the forefront, but notably, there's also Sister Mary Wormhorn, the Pairs assigned Personal Demon.
Wormhorn, while initially a bit of a genki girl who doesn't seem to know what she's doing, slowly shows an aptitude for finding Lola and Milos fears and insecurities and digging at them, attempting to split their friendship in two and generally torture them. She also pops up every so often to "Review and Evaluate" your recent actions, since you're often tasked to do something and are normally given two options to accomplish this. Of course, no matter which one you choose, you'll be told you picked the wrong one and while it's easy enough to think "Well, of course a demon would say that" a number of the situations are in just grey enough an area to wonder if you really did do the right thing that can nag at you after a while. Not to mention there's there's the implication that taking the Jerkass route could net you an ally to help you later on. It definitely begins to wear on Lola and Milo after a while, who begin 2nd guessing if they are doing the right thing in their bid to escape hell.
The game actually does throw a nice curve ball at you late in the game, before going to Satan to take up the Challenge. Wormwood pops up and after some psychological torture, hits them(and the player) with the argument Only one of them has actual autonomy and other just does whatever the other wants. Since the various binary decisions pretty much always require you to choose between Lola's idea to proceed and Milo's, the one you pick the most will be the one she calls as being the "real" person of the two, and not a hanger on. After a night of constantly working on their fears and doubts, this is enough to cause the other one to lose his/her shit and run off, splitting the friendship for a bit . I found it kind of a nice meta take on the "binary action" and "Character favoritism" tropes in video games, since most games where you can swap between two characters freely has no impact at all on the story.
Beyond that, there's a fair bit of time talking about engagement in destructive behavior ie Alcoholism which ties into the above themes and seeks to humanize the demons you meet, a lot of which have their own empathic characterization. Since the Tortue part of Hell is mostly treated a job to keep the demons employed(and thus the working hours schedule), demons suffer just as much as the humans around them as wanton refuge in hedonism and just getting shit faced all the time to give their lives some meaning outside of work(and the fact Satan has long since abdicated any pretense of actually running hell like he's supposed to doesn't help matters).
Beyond that, the actual gameplay isn't particularly complex. You get dialogue choices, most of which are don't affect anything, but in bars you'll have access to a selection of Hell Booze, which gives you a third option while the effect last and changes depending on which booze you consume. While one will just make you more confident, another might give you a "Talk like a Pirate" dialogue option or "Pretend I'm a rich asshole" route. There are also the occasional alcohol based mini-game like Beer Pong and stacking shotglasses in a tower while drunk.
In summary, basically this is maybe more of a walking/talking simulator(or maybe a visual novel, but with more animation) then a "Game" game that feels a bit more....maybe not profound but it does have things to say and even if some of the writing is "20 something jokes and snark", there is a fair bit of exploration of themes of toxic behavior and the bonds of friendship in the face of uncertainty and harsh times. So a lot better then I expected it to be, but certainly not for everyone. It's about $20 full price and I'd consider that worth it, but somebody who is unsure might want to wait for a sale if not give it a pass. If you like games like Oxenfree or maybe Firewatch, take a look at this for sure.
So this is one of these games that's really hard to explain why it's worth a look. Like it's predecessor OxenFree, this is a game built around about 5 hours of two character walking and talking around a series of locations. While in Oxenfree, it was a mostly wilderness island with ghosts that would pop up every so often, here it's a depiction of Hell.
The Premise is fairly simple. Lola and Milo are close friends and recent college grads on the cusp of real life and adulthood....and then wake up in Hell together with no memory of how they died or what they did to deserve it. For much of the game, they remain ignorant of both, because Hell has strict office hours of 9 to 6 and once 6 pm rolls around, all the torture stops and everyone heads off for a long night of debauchery, Demon and Humans alike(apparently it's hard to torture 24/7, so the off hours are for the demons as much as the humans). You later find out how they died but not what they did(but considering one person's crime was "Abusing the express lane at the grocery story numerous times" one can only imagine getting into hell is pretty easy), not that it matters much either way.
Arriving just before closing, Lola and Milo are left to start their first night in hell at the nearest bar and are given some pointers by a friendly Psychopomp named Sam(who is basically an infernal cab driver, ferrying passengers to the different parts of the underworld). Sam acts as the Duo's guide for much of the nights journey and tips them off that Satan, The Prince of Partying, holds ragers at his house all night, every night and has a standing challenge to anyone who can drink him under the table that he'll let them go back to Earth and get a 2nd chance at life. The goal ends up being to do just that, but of course, it's never that simple.
On the surface, the game is basically a bar crawl across hell over the course of a single night, not unlike the premise of the film "The Worlds End"(with demons instead of aliens) and much like that film, there's lots of darkly humorous dialogue with a fair bit of Snark. However, after the first hour or so(where the whole premise and groove is getting set in motion), it becomes apparent that the writing is a bit deeper then "Young Adults being Snarky". Lola and Milo are revealed to have a number of flaws and insecurities(like most people and especially people just getting out of college who weren't really outstanding in anything, other then being kinda lonerish). The plenty of talking and walking and drinking gives them ample oppurtuniy for said feelings to come to the forefront, but notably, there's also Sister Mary Wormhorn, the Pairs assigned Personal Demon.
Wormhorn, while initially a bit of a genki girl who doesn't seem to know what she's doing, slowly shows an aptitude for finding Lola and Milos fears and insecurities and digging at them, attempting to split their friendship in two and generally torture them. She also pops up every so often to "Review and Evaluate" your recent actions, since you're often tasked to do something and are normally given two options to accomplish this. Of course, no matter which one you choose, you'll be told you picked the wrong one and while it's easy enough to think "Well, of course a demon would say that" a number of the situations are in just grey enough an area to wonder if you really did do the right thing that can nag at you after a while. Not to mention there's there's the implication that taking the Jerkass route could net you an ally to help you later on. It definitely begins to wear on Lola and Milo after a while, who begin 2nd guessing if they are doing the right thing in their bid to escape hell.
The game actually does throw a nice curve ball at you late in the game, before going to Satan to take up the Challenge. Wormwood pops up and after some psychological torture, hits them(and the player) with the argument Only one of them has actual autonomy and other just does whatever the other wants. Since the various binary decisions pretty much always require you to choose between Lola's idea to proceed and Milo's, the one you pick the most will be the one she calls as being the "real" person of the two, and not a hanger on. After a night of constantly working on their fears and doubts, this is enough to cause the other one to lose his/her shit and run off, splitting the friendship for a bit . I found it kind of a nice meta take on the "binary action" and "Character favoritism" tropes in video games, since most games where you can swap between two characters freely has no impact at all on the story.
Beyond that, there's a fair bit of time talking about engagement in destructive behavior ie Alcoholism which ties into the above themes and seeks to humanize the demons you meet, a lot of which have their own empathic characterization. Since the Tortue part of Hell is mostly treated a job to keep the demons employed(and thus the working hours schedule), demons suffer just as much as the humans around them as wanton refuge in hedonism and just getting shit faced all the time to give their lives some meaning outside of work(and the fact Satan has long since abdicated any pretense of actually running hell like he's supposed to doesn't help matters).
Beyond that, the actual gameplay isn't particularly complex. You get dialogue choices, most of which are don't affect anything, but in bars you'll have access to a selection of Hell Booze, which gives you a third option while the effect last and changes depending on which booze you consume. While one will just make you more confident, another might give you a "Talk like a Pirate" dialogue option or "Pretend I'm a rich asshole" route. There are also the occasional alcohol based mini-game like Beer Pong and stacking shotglasses in a tower while drunk.
In summary, basically this is maybe more of a walking/talking simulator(or maybe a visual novel, but with more animation) then a "Game" game that feels a bit more....maybe not profound but it does have things to say and even if some of the writing is "20 something jokes and snark", there is a fair bit of exploration of themes of toxic behavior and the bonds of friendship in the face of uncertainty and harsh times. So a lot better then I expected it to be, but certainly not for everyone. It's about $20 full price and I'd consider that worth it, but somebody who is unsure might want to wait for a sale if not give it a pass. If you like games like Oxenfree or maybe Firewatch, take a look at this for sure.
Black Mesa
Played the original HL2 mod way back, then everything pre-Xen of the standalone release in early access, and now finally got around to playing the full final release, Xen included. Because of it's long, long, loooong dev cycle, this turned out kind of weird. It's a remake of a late 90's fps released in 2020, visually it kind of blends late 00's aesthetics with mid 10's, but in terms of gameplay it is firmly rooted in the mid 00's. Tho that makes sense, since bringing HL1 up to that level was the whole goal. Basically, what if HL1 played like HL2. In a way, it kind of feels like one of those throwback fps, particularly Ion Fury or Wrath Aeon of Ruin, i.e. built on an old engine pushed beyond it believed capable of and delivering an experience that feels retro, but with some of the harder edges filed off.
Anyway, yeh, pre-Xen bits of Black Mesa follow basically the same progression as the original. Some of the more tedious and/or annoying stuff got scrapped, other parts expanded. Leaning noticeably harder into the horror side of things, particularly in the early game. Also, more small puzzles strewn throughout. In general does a pretty good job at being familiar yet different enough to be fresh. Though it must also be said that while the Crowbar Collective did an admirable job creating HL2 style gameplay, they aren't quite as adept at it as Valve was. There are bits I felt Gabe and co would've signposted better, and some puzzle gameplay bits that could've used an extra reminder between first taught and more complex application later on (sometimes much later). Still, overall solid start
Now on to Xen. which got a similar overhaul. First off, looks way nicer. Kind of got this bioluminescent coral reef slash swamp combo going on, at least the earlier parts. Not as abstractly alien anymore, which is kind of a shame, but on the upside, it also feels much more like a real place with an ecosystem. I do like how you run across research and outpots/labs set up by the Black Mesa scientists, some replete with HEV zombies, their suits spouting the same lines yours does when you (are about to) die, but glitchy and distored. Wonderfully creepy. Xen's new style is kind of hell on signposting tho, since the Valve style "place a colored light to show the way" trick doesn't work as well when there's glowy shit everywhere. Still lots of 1st person platforming overall tho, but less falling to your death. I mean, still plenty opportunity by jumping off a floating island, but regular fall damage is gone, so that's nice.
The Gonarch battle probably got the largest change. After the initial confrontation it turns into a cat and mouse thing with the ballsacky chasing you through tunnels and over ravines before you get to tickle that scrote in a final showdown. It's a pretty neat sequence. Large improvement over the kind of boring and easily cheesable boss fight in HL1. Next up ... sigh ... Interloper. Worst level in the original, and it still is. I like that Vortiguants are no longer hostile here unless a Controller is around, and there's a fun sequence where you're chased around a pseudo-maze by Gargantuas. Other than that, large part of it is still this boring slog through an alien factory, over conveyor belts, solving repeats of the puzzles from the previous levels. And it's even longer than the original. Really wore out its welcome. Ending in an overlong elevator sequence that similarly drags on.
It's not even really that hard for a final level, since there's basically infinite health from crystals, and the same for ammo for the Gluon Gun, and that thing shreds anything you point it at for longer than a quarter second. It also looks way less visually creative compared to previous levels, now featuring a lot of metal and recognizable stuff/technology like houses, wicker baskets, vents and computers instead of the weird sort of abstract coral-like biotech. Oh, and finally the Nihilanth. Apparently it was heavily redesigned because lots of people found the old fight frustrating? Don't really remember that being a thing, always kind of breezed through it. New version is imo the better one. Certainly more involved and bigger on spectacle. So yeh, improvement.
TLDR: It's a pretty good remake. Arguably the definitive way to play Half-Life, supposing you haven't already. Actually, also worth if you have.
Played the original HL2 mod way back, then everything pre-Xen of the standalone release in early access, and now finally got around to playing the full final release, Xen included. Because of it's long, long, loooong dev cycle, this turned out kind of weird. It's a remake of a late 90's fps released in 2020, visually it kind of blends late 00's aesthetics with mid 10's, but in terms of gameplay it is firmly rooted in the mid 00's. Tho that makes sense, since bringing HL1 up to that level was the whole goal. Basically, what if HL1 played like HL2. In a way, it kind of feels like one of those throwback fps, particularly Ion Fury or Wrath Aeon of Ruin, i.e. built on an old engine pushed beyond it believed capable of and delivering an experience that feels retro, but with some of the harder edges filed off.
Anyway, yeh, pre-Xen bits of Black Mesa follow basically the same progression as the original. Some of the more tedious and/or annoying stuff got scrapped, other parts expanded. Leaning noticeably harder into the horror side of things, particularly in the early game. Also, more small puzzles strewn throughout. In general does a pretty good job at being familiar yet different enough to be fresh. Though it must also be said that while the Crowbar Collective did an admirable job creating HL2 style gameplay, they aren't quite as adept at it as Valve was. There are bits I felt Gabe and co would've signposted better, and some puzzle gameplay bits that could've used an extra reminder between first taught and more complex application later on (sometimes much later). Still, overall solid start
Now on to Xen. which got a similar overhaul. First off, looks way nicer. Kind of got this bioluminescent coral reef slash swamp combo going on, at least the earlier parts. Not as abstractly alien anymore, which is kind of a shame, but on the upside, it also feels much more like a real place with an ecosystem. I do like how you run across research and outpots/labs set up by the Black Mesa scientists, some replete with HEV zombies, their suits spouting the same lines yours does when you (are about to) die, but glitchy and distored. Wonderfully creepy. Xen's new style is kind of hell on signposting tho, since the Valve style "place a colored light to show the way" trick doesn't work as well when there's glowy shit everywhere. Still lots of 1st person platforming overall tho, but less falling to your death. I mean, still plenty opportunity by jumping off a floating island, but regular fall damage is gone, so that's nice.
The Gonarch battle probably got the largest change. After the initial confrontation it turns into a cat and mouse thing with the ballsacky chasing you through tunnels and over ravines before you get to tickle that scrote in a final showdown. It's a pretty neat sequence. Large improvement over the kind of boring and easily cheesable boss fight in HL1. Next up ... sigh ... Interloper. Worst level in the original, and it still is. I like that Vortiguants are no longer hostile here unless a Controller is around, and there's a fun sequence where you're chased around a pseudo-maze by Gargantuas. Other than that, large part of it is still this boring slog through an alien factory, over conveyor belts, solving repeats of the puzzles from the previous levels. And it's even longer than the original. Really wore out its welcome. Ending in an overlong elevator sequence that similarly drags on.
It's not even really that hard for a final level, since there's basically infinite health from crystals, and the same for ammo for the Gluon Gun, and that thing shreds anything you point it at for longer than a quarter second. It also looks way less visually creative compared to previous levels, now featuring a lot of metal and recognizable stuff/technology like houses, wicker baskets, vents and computers instead of the weird sort of abstract coral-like biotech. Oh, and finally the Nihilanth. Apparently it was heavily redesigned because lots of people found the old fight frustrating? Don't really remember that being a thing, always kind of breezed through it. New version is imo the better one. Certainly more involved and bigger on spectacle. So yeh, improvement.
TLDR: It's a pretty good remake. Arguably the definitive way to play Half-Life, supposing you haven't already. Actually, also worth if you have.
Pssst, you can get 4k60 through CEmu on a decent pc. There's plenty info out there on how, including settings. Hardest part is dumping the game, but also guides for that.
Anybody pickup everspace 2? I loved the 1st one but didn't like the rogue like element so I'm pretty stocked that they made it open world, but at the same time I'm tired of picking up space sim game and finding out I just purchased "space eurotruck simulator".
Death Stranding continues, and it continues to be friggin weird.
I dunno, I just kind of wanted to check in and throw out there how odd and very specific this game is. I can absolutely see why a tonne of people hated this game on release - I don't know what I expected when I bought it, (open world fallout style game with more focus on traversing the world than looting buildings?), but I certainly didn't see "courier/eurotruck simulator with an operatic story" coming. That said, what's even more perplexing is the fact that I like this game significantly more than the vast majority of recent over-thirty-dollar purchases I've made. Its big and silent, the monsters are cool from a distance and terrifying close up, the few non-primary characters you interact with have surprising characterization, and its engaging to boot a stack of boxes up a damn mountain in a way that I never expected.
Yesterday I was playing, working to build some roads so I could swap from foot courier to bike courier and running deliveries at the same time, developing known safe paths through hostile territory and setting up equipment to make it easier to traverse certain difficult areas. And it hit me that I had fully unlocked a bunch of destinations a while back and I was still running shit to them even though all you get is "likes" and I don't even know what those are for. I could have been pushing the main story ahead or even just not taking deliveries and instead hauling even more raw materials to build roads... but roads aren't even necessarily critical if you don't plan on returning which you don't need to barring the odd story backtrack.
If ever there was a sign that I'm legitimately enjoying a game then that would be it. I'm building goddamn infrastructure for humans I never meet in person, delivering stuff to people who no longer reward me in any notable way, and I'm choosing to do this because I want to.
All I need now is for the story to pull its thumb out and get to the juicy bits about the monsters or pack it in so I can play without cutscene interruption.
I dunno, I just kind of wanted to check in and throw out there how odd and very specific this game is. I can absolutely see why a tonne of people hated this game on release - I don't know what I expected when I bought it, (open world fallout style game with more focus on traversing the world than looting buildings?), but I certainly didn't see "courier/eurotruck simulator with an operatic story" coming. That said, what's even more perplexing is the fact that I like this game significantly more than the vast majority of recent over-thirty-dollar purchases I've made. Its big and silent, the monsters are cool from a distance and terrifying close up, the few non-primary characters you interact with have surprising characterization, and its engaging to boot a stack of boxes up a damn mountain in a way that I never expected.
Yesterday I was playing, working to build some roads so I could swap from foot courier to bike courier and running deliveries at the same time, developing known safe paths through hostile territory and setting up equipment to make it easier to traverse certain difficult areas. And it hit me that I had fully unlocked a bunch of destinations a while back and I was still running shit to them even though all you get is "likes" and I don't even know what those are for. I could have been pushing the main story ahead or even just not taking deliveries and instead hauling even more raw materials to build roads... but roads aren't even necessarily critical if you don't plan on returning which you don't need to barring the odd story backtrack.
If ever there was a sign that I'm legitimately enjoying a game then that would be it. I'm building goddamn infrastructure for humans I never meet in person, delivering stuff to people who no longer reward me in any notable way, and I'm choosing to do this because I want to.
All I need now is for the story to pull its thumb out and get to the juicy bits about the monsters or pack it in so I can play without cutscene interruption.
Oh, it gets the job done. Not as accurate as a mouse and keyboard, but I'm fine with controllers for FPS.
TBH, having finished the DLC, Ancient Gods feels like a regression when compared to Doom Eternal. I've commented that with Doom 2016, the story felt thrown together. In part because it was almost exclusively told via the codex, in part because I got the sense that the writers were making it up as they were going along, in part because the writers apparently ignored the question of "if you're not writing about the most interesting period in your character's life, why?" Doom Eternal improved things immensely, but Ancient Gods is...well...
-Go find the Seraphiem, engage plot twist that no-one didn't see coming.
-"Oh no, I'm in my Seraphim body, and it's degrading because Urdak is corrupted. Gee, if only I had some pre-existing metal body that gives me resilience to Hell's power."
-Oh, yeah, there's this Dark Lord guy called Davoth whom we're only now just learning about.
-Yes, I'm going to destroy the Father's life sphere, because I'm an asshole (seriously, I don't get why the Slayer does this)
-Back to the ARC, where a character has to talk to the Doom Slayer, explaining to the Slayer what his own plan is for the sake of the audience. I get that the Slayer is a silent protagonist, but this is such awkward writing.
-Doom Slayer has to make it to Urdak and finds the Seraphim, who's...somehow here, and able to control demons, despite being corrupted by demons, and working against demons, and God fucking damn it spirit enemies are tough!
-And the Dark Lord is revealed as...it was Earth all along! (sorry, you all along).
I'm snarking, but the DLC has the thrown together feeling that Doom 2016 had, and Doom Eternal (and Doom 3) didn't. Granted, I don't exactly play Doom for story, and the DLC was still good, but the story was a massive step back.
- Apr 1, 2009
- 14,525
- 3,470
- 118
- Gender
- Whatever, just wash your hands.
I don't know about that. 2016 felt like it had a more coherent story, sure it wasn't as indepth, but it was solid in its simplicity for the most part. You had to dig to get to the weird super nerd stuff.
Pretty much all the events that you list from the DLC, also happend in Doom Eternal, you had all this stuff just show up out of no where. They pretty much just ignored the story from 2016 and used the characters in a new story and threw in a bunch of new stuff that wasn't even mentioned.
I can sort of see what you're getting at, but for me, I think what you like about Doom 2016 is what I dislike about it.
Doom 2016's story is super simple - demons invade, wake up, kill demons. Anything remotely interesting is in voiceovers or in codex entries, and even then, the codex entries only really mention Argent D'Nur and the Night Sentinels right towards the end of the game. To borrow a cliche, there's a saying in writing that asks "if you're not writing about the most interesting point in your character's life, why?" From a story standpoint, all the most interesting elements of Doom 2016's story, from Argent D'Nur, to the Seraphim, to the Slayer doing all this stuff in Hell, happens prior to the game itself. Yes, I can appreciate the need for Doom to have gone back to basics at this point, but even then, this is the third time we've been on/near Mars in the series, and it's basically the same premise.
Doom Eternal however, steps things up a notch. You can argue that it doesn't link with the previous game well - we don't know how the Slayer got to the Fortress of Doom, and it's a bit iffy concerning Hayden going from "we can rebuild and use argent energy again" to leading the ARC. But even that aside, from the perspective of worldbuilding, Doom Eternal goes much, MUCH deeper into the lore of Doom, and as bonkers as it is, it does have a sense of gravitas to it. Furthermore, Doom Eternal's story doesn't have the problem of Doom 2016's, in that interesting material is happening in the present. Isn't just the Slayer saving Earth, but confronting the maykrs, the ghosts of his own past, Hayden, etc. It's a weird case where the Slayer knows more than the player (e.g. we see the Khan Maykr at the start, and have no idea who she is, even if the Slayer does), but even if you don't read the codex, you can probably get what's going on, and what's happened before.
In Doom 2016, most of the interesting stuff happened before the game, and it doesn't really inform the present - Argent D'Nur is academic to the UAC, and not really relevant to the Slayer, whose motive seems to be "hunt demons because I like killing demons." In Doom Eternal, even without saying a word bar flashbacks, we get how he came to be the way he is, why he does what he does, and why he hates Hell (and Urdak). It's why you can get a scene like this:
And have it carry a huge weight. Because even if the moment is short, there's a lot going on there. We know why the marauder hates the Slayer, we know why the Slayer hates the marauder, and even if you don't know that, just from the visuals, you can guess that:
a) The marauder has some similarities with the Doom Slayer, given the icons on his armour
b) The Slayer hates him so much that he's willing to postpone returning to the fortress, but also treats him as enough of a threat to take his time before dashing in (compared to his "peh, whatever" approach in Doom 2016)
Or at the end of the gladiator fight, when the Slayer contemptuously throws the medallion to the corrupted Night Sentinels rather than face them. Is it contempt? Or can he not bring himself to fight them? Whatever the case, these moments aren't really present in Doom 2016 - least not to the same extent. The Slayer's one of the few cases (IMO) of a silent protagonist done well, and moments like this are part of why.
I'm pretty sure this conversation happened before (maybe old escapist) but I think 2016 is an extremely strong story that work great and sync well with the gameplay. Eternal feel like the cheap knockoff of 2016, if you ignore continuity, 2016 feel like an improvement over eternal and I think it's better to play eternal before 2016 cause 2016 cuts all the useless crap (stroy and gameplay wise) from eternal and focus on what makes the game work.
The only things that's kinda interesting in eternal story wise is that earth is already fuck and there's no human around. But otherwise its such a generic story with way too freaking much cutscene explaining stuff that we can figure out by our self because it's just generic stuff (I wish SAM would shut up for most of the game). Like, 2016 literally has a moment where a cutscene start playing and someone start explaining some pointless plot detail and the doom slayer just smash the device and move on, and pretty everyone praise that scene. Yet Eternal somehow completely missed that and you get a bunch of pointless scene and the doom slayer just stand there and listen.
The only things that's kinda interesting in eternal story wise is that earth is already fuck and there's no human around. But otherwise its such a generic story with way too freaking much cutscene explaining stuff that we can figure out by our self because it's just generic stuff (I wish SAM would shut up for most of the game). Like, 2016 literally has a moment where a cutscene start playing and someone start explaining some pointless plot detail and the doom slayer just smash the device and move on, and pretty everyone praise that scene. Yet Eternal somehow completely missed that and you get a bunch of pointless scene and the doom slayer just stand there and listen.
- Apr 1, 2009
- 14,525
- 3,470
- 118
- Gender
- Whatever, just wash your hands.
Ehh, I think you are oversimplifying it. You have the UAC which has found ruins on mars and a portal to hell which it is using to syphon energy off of to feed earths energy thirst. One of the lead scientists has been snackrificing her co-workers at the promise of one of the demons of hell for something. Things go out of control and demons from hell invade mars. One of the things the CEO of the UAC, Hayden found was a dude in a sarcophagus who the demons fear so he lets him out in hopes he will kill the demons and not damage the facility. He damages the facility but also kicks the demons well toned asses and saves the AI that controls one of the facilities, then gets tricked into giving Hayden a sword thing and put back into stasis.
Doom Eternal really just has much much more lore but almost totally ignores what came before and almost feels like an obsessed fan fic author wrote it. You know, someone who is super duper into something and wants to find reasons for every little thing that happens and writes a hyper indepth story about why so and so wore red shoes that one day, but they also have some super awesome original characters you guys, one is god but we dont want you to kill god so lets call her a mayker and the other is this traitor guy who was never mentioned but is super important you guys.
Plus somehow the UAC ended up being totally controlled by the demon worshippers despite them all being dead from snackrificing themselves to demons and Hayden is not the CEO anymore and now runs some organization called ARC which all the governments give power too since they are the world leader in demon killing despite sucking at it. Really Doom Eternal feels like the plot was just kinda thrown in by someone who was super excited to go way into detail about every little thing.
Also you might want to drop the argument of not being the most interesting time thing. It never really applies since you will always have more interesting times, and it super doesn't apply to this situation since its heavily implied that the Doom Slayer is our beloved Doom Guy from the other games. Meaning we did see the more interesting times, unless you mean the abandoned Doom 4 game? Which could have been pretty cool.
All of that's more or less true, but is that a complex plot? And even if it is, it's a plot that's repeated from at least two prior Doom games. And I'd still argue that all the more interesting stuff is in the codex, rather than conveyed through the game itself.
The Khan Maykr isn't God, that's the Father/VEGA. Also, the "traitor guy" was mentioned in the codex of Doom 2016.
But nitpicks aside, I don't feel that Doom Eternal over-explains things. Even if it does, then it's coming off a series that, with the exception of Doom 3, has under-explained things. Also, as I said, Doom Eternal conveys a lot of its story within the game itself, whereas Doom 2016 relies on its codex. The former is generally preferable to the latter.
It's all but confirmed that the Doom Slayer is Doom Guy, and that Doom 1>2>Final Doom>Doom 64>Doom 2016>Doom Eternal are all part of one big story. But that it's the same character doesn't refute my point or, at least, doesn't make me see it differently. That Doom 2016 is a repeat of prior games plots' almost ad nauseum aside, again, the Slayer's actions described in the codex are more interesting than what's actually going on on-screen. Like, if I'm writing a story where the hero's goal is to take out a group of bandits, and his backstory is a world-altering quest of dark lords, romance, betrayal, and all that fun stuff, then a reader might be asking why I'm not telling that story instead for instance.
As for Doom 4, I wouldn't mind seeing it for both story and gameplay reasons. That said, I'm not counting on it. It would probably be seen as a damaging of the brand, because even if we avoid the "Call of Doom" comparisons, Doom 3 remains the black sheep of the franchise.
So I genuinely dislike Hideo's work, and find his fan's justification of "Yeah his stuff's insane, but that's the good part!" a terrible defense for games that seem to be nothing more than the fever dreams of a cocaine addled brain. But I've heard some people mention bits about Death Stranding, that imply it's got some kind of positive reinforcement of society elements. I'm not sure how to phrase it, but that, the game is designed, at least on some levels, to try and make you empathize with other players in the game, and to reinforce an idea of community and shared humanity, through the struggles of the game. Which that part, I admit, does sound interesting to me. But then the rest of my brain goes "Yeah but.. this is a Hideo game, the insane guy that made the metal gear series, which you loathe with a passion. Do you really want to pay money for this if it's nothing but another variation on *shudders* Metal Gear?"
So, would you say, that for someone who is almost fatally allergic to a typical "Hideo game", would I like it? I get that you don't know me and stuff, but, well basically just how fucking batshit insane is it, versus how much is actual engaging content?
Started playing Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War.
So far it's a notable improvement on AC4 in a number of ways, though it is a bit different in others.
There's finally some actual characters(who you work with, not in a parallel but tangential story to the one you're living) this time, so your wingmen aren't just different voices on the radio and you actually get to see them. So hooray. I mean, they aren't particularly fleshed out characters or anything, but it's some improvement. Also, yet again, Steve Blum shows up as a wingman only to die, which is a shame because having Spike Spiegel yelling in my ear during missions the entire game would have been interesting.
There's also a system to tell your wingmen to do stuff during battles, which is kinda cool, though I'm unsure just how useful it is. I've never really noticed AC wingmen being particularly good at actually killing stuff, though I've seen them actually take down enemy planes in this one, which makes them about 100% more useful then the wingmen in AC4. The whole thing where they ask you questions and you're supposed to hit a button for yes or no is kinda distracting because they often do it when I'm trying to concentrate on blowing stuff up, and I've also been in the middle of issuing wingmen orders when they ask me stuff as well, giving a wrong answer at times. I'm not even sure it matters much though, so I guess whatever.
It feels like something resembling a plot is finally starting to kick into gear now, about 7 missions into the game. The Arkbird looks like a boss fight waiting to happen, so I'm sure the enemy will grab it at some point because there's no way the Oseans will get to keep something that cool for very long. So as usual, it looks like it's gonna be my 4 planes winning the war ourselves, especially since the Yukotobians(?) seem to have an uncanny ability to read the Oseans every movement and have a massive attack force always ready to strike. I can't tell if the Yukotobians are supposed to be master planners with great intel, the Oseans just suck that much or there's going to be a reveal that the Yukatobians have a mole on the inside the entire time.
There's also the Belka thing.
Me: "Hey, AC5.Are you planning a plot twist concerning Belka?"
AC5: *Looks around nervously* "No! Why?"
Me: "Then Why do you keep bringing up a 15 year old war against Belka that ended in Nuclear disaster?"
AC5: "It's purely a coincidence, I assure you. Oh, look, a Spaceplane!"
Probably the biggest difference I've noticed so far is that I wasn't able to buy new planes until a few missions in and now I can buy multiple planes and choose what planes my wingmen use, which is kinda cool and its the first game in the series I've seen it in. Overall it's pretty fun so far.
So far it's a notable improvement on AC4 in a number of ways, though it is a bit different in others.
There's finally some actual characters(who you work with, not in a parallel but tangential story to the one you're living) this time, so your wingmen aren't just different voices on the radio and you actually get to see them. So hooray. I mean, they aren't particularly fleshed out characters or anything, but it's some improvement. Also, yet again, Steve Blum shows up as a wingman only to die, which is a shame because having Spike Spiegel yelling in my ear during missions the entire game would have been interesting.
There's also a system to tell your wingmen to do stuff during battles, which is kinda cool, though I'm unsure just how useful it is. I've never really noticed AC wingmen being particularly good at actually killing stuff, though I've seen them actually take down enemy planes in this one, which makes them about 100% more useful then the wingmen in AC4. The whole thing where they ask you questions and you're supposed to hit a button for yes or no is kinda distracting because they often do it when I'm trying to concentrate on blowing stuff up, and I've also been in the middle of issuing wingmen orders when they ask me stuff as well, giving a wrong answer at times. I'm not even sure it matters much though, so I guess whatever.
It feels like something resembling a plot is finally starting to kick into gear now, about 7 missions into the game. The Arkbird looks like a boss fight waiting to happen, so I'm sure the enemy will grab it at some point because there's no way the Oseans will get to keep something that cool for very long. So as usual, it looks like it's gonna be my 4 planes winning the war ourselves, especially since the Yukotobians(?) seem to have an uncanny ability to read the Oseans every movement and have a massive attack force always ready to strike. I can't tell if the Yukotobians are supposed to be master planners with great intel, the Oseans just suck that much or there's going to be a reveal that the Yukatobians have a mole on the inside the entire time.
There's also the Belka thing.
Me: "Hey, AC5.Are you planning a plot twist concerning Belka?"
AC5: *Looks around nervously* "No! Why?"
Me: "Then Why do you keep bringing up a 15 year old war against Belka that ended in Nuclear disaster?"
AC5: "It's purely a coincidence, I assure you. Oh, look, a Spaceplane!"
Probably the biggest difference I've noticed so far is that I wasn't able to buy new planes until a few missions in and now I can buy multiple planes and choose what planes my wingmen use, which is kinda cool and its the first game in the series I've seen it in. Overall it's pretty fun so far.
Last edited:
- Apr 1, 2009
- 14,525
- 3,470
- 118
- Gender
- Whatever, just wash your hands.
No, its not really complex but you don't really need a complex plot to have a solid plot. In fact complexity can often make a plot worse. You don't need every bit of a plot or a characters past to be described. Was Han Solo a more interesting character before or after he got his prequel movie?
The Khan Maykr kinda takes the place of god since the creator is afk. They have their "angels." Oh, right, I guess he was mentioned in how they managed to entomb the Doom Slayer... (I guess Doom Guy wasn't serious enough)
It would be cool to see them release Doom 4 now and I think they could get away with it since we have the Doom games that the audience craved, so they could do a side story now. Plus, I really want to see one of those giant robots do something, Doom Eternal is really good at environmentally blue balling you with indications that something awesome happened but not getting to see it.
True, but you can also have the problem, that many action games/movies have, of relying too much on the action, to prop up a dull plot, and it doesn't always work. Like the John Wick films. The first one has a very simple revenge plot, but it's structured so well, and the acting is so good from everyone (except Keanu, love him, but he's a wooden board of emotions), that it carries the film brilliantly. And then JW 2/3 came around, and had basically NO plot at all, and just banked their success on lots of shooty shooty bang bang. "Ooh look! Keanu is being technically accurate with how he is holding that weapon!" Me: "Yeah? And? Why is he doing it though? What is the point of this scene?" Fans "....but...technically accurate shooty shooty bang bang!" Me: *facepalm*