Gina Carano Fired From “The Mandalorian” Over “Abhorrent” Social Media Posts

Agema

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Honestly, I'm much more bothered about the British government sending ominous letters to British conservation charities chiding them for daring to make reports about how all the old mansions they look after were paid for by slave trade money; this after nearly 30 MPs wrote that the government should review any public funding they receive. Because nothing says "censorship" to me like the government taking private organisations aside, threatening their income and having a quiet word about what they should and shouldn't say.

But it's not sexy, is it? I mean, it's dull bread and butter attempts by a political party to use its power to control national discussion: no Hollywood glitter or starlets with low-cut tops. And even more, it's a right wing government, which means all the usual right-wing suspects who crawl out of the woodwork over even the tiniest triviality to bang the free speech drum have suddenly found they're really busy with something else demanding their attention.
 

Houseman

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Honestly, I'm much more bothered about the British government sending ominous letters to British conservation charities chiding them for daring to make reports about how all the old mansions they look after were paid for by slave trade money; this after nearly 30 MPs wrote that the government should review any public funding they receive. Because nothing says "censorship" to me like the government taking private organisations aside, threatening their income and having a quiet word about what they should and shouldn't say.

But it's not sexy, is it? I mean, it's dull bread and butter attempts by a political party to use its power to control national discussion: no Hollywood glitter or starlets with low-cut tops. And even more, it's a right wing government, which means all the usual right-wing suspects who crawl out of the woodwork over even the tiniest triviality to bang the free speech drum have suddenly found they're really busy with something else demanding their attention.
Go ahead and make a topic about it.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Anyway, the point being that I'm now officially seeing more support for Gina than I did against Gina. So, do I get to question the movement now?

I wouldn't. If it was truly unfair against Gina (which I still don't know because I haven't see what was offensive yet), and even if it was just a minority, I would not stand for it. Nor would I think anyone here would stand for Gina being dogpiled on if they thought what she said was innocent. Again, I can't speak for them given that I'm still confused about the tweet, but it seems like the tweet actually was offensive to them. So I think they are within their right if it's offensive to them. As offensiveness is subjective.
The confusing is kind of what people hoping for a knee jerk reaction are relying on. They rely on you not checking stuff and accepting what they say as true and that there must be evidence of something because they wouldn't just fly off the handle like they have over what was said.

When I was growing up a dude I knew from a club I went to I can only describe him as being a sociopath. He acted the same way vs people who opposed him, he'd rapidly escalate things or try to frame people a having done things. Thing is he tried to ingratiate himself with everyone not the target of his ire. He'd try to worm his way in with people to get what he wanted and often then once he got it expect everyone to fall in line with him. Some examples, He accused another member of the club of stealing money and equipment, I knew said member hadn't done it but whatever I said was shut out because he had the ear of the people in charge. Another time he accused another person of breaking his trust and ruining his relationship, the reality, he had a history of cheating on his girlfriend, girlfriend then meets other dude and they bond and she realises she's fed up of him and may (or may not) have made a move on other guy. The girl and other guy then dated for about 4 months and broke up but separated on good terms. It was often never clear cut things or it was stuff he knew people would have a hard time arguing against.

In terms of Gina. It's easy for people to present her as a monster when stuff like this is ignored






Oh, and the actor who played Jar Jar Brinks was told to kill himself for a better part of a couple of years.




And let's not forget Jake Lloyd, the actor who played kid Anakin.




People in any group suck. They'll suck to a conservative (if she is even that) MMA fighter, a black guy who's just lending his voice to a character and following direction, or a simple kid. To pretend it has to do because of whatever affiliation they choose to follow is folly. Because I'm sure if I found those racists from the first BoycottStarWars due to Finn being black, you would consider it a consequence if they were all Republican or conservatives. So to act like the fact that many of those people who bashed and trashed Gina were Lefties actually means something more insidious is simply disingenuous.
You are right they can and do, their affiliation with whatever is often just a convenient excuse. The reason people (and likely me) have used the term "The Left" is that kind of is what the modern left is becoming with purity purges and cancelling people. Those are becoming increasingly the people seen as having influence and control in left wing spheres. Just look at how the likes of Laci Green ended up under the proverbial bus. Hell the twitter mobs have tried twice to cancel Breadtuber Contra Points for not being deemed to have acceptable views among the internet left. Also the language being used and accusations are what seems to have become used more by people who claim to be left wing online. People accusing her of racism and transphobia and other such things. The claims have become weaponised in part because people don't think people would falsely make such serious allegations against people.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Hell, here's the BoycottStarWars in favor for Gina.
-snip because forum being weird-
seems a bit uneven.
Part of that issue being what I'd term "The lines" in terms of what is acceptable.

Gina Carano shitposts some stuff, people read their own beliefs into and call for her to be fired. Disney after a while obliges.

Other people apparently are fine posting about throwing children into woodchippers because of their parent's political beliefs. They're fine just being outright assholes telling people to kill themselves and go fuck themselves.

There's a line between questioning things and ideological debate and just being an abusive asshole.

To use something once said in the old Atheism communities of old

"Let me get this right you're outraged and say it's not being civil for me to say God Doesn't exist but you expect me to not point out the hypocrisy of that anger when you've been saying for years I'll burn in hell for all eternity with demons sticking forks in my ass and flaying the flesh from my bones? That's not impolite to you?"
There's a sort of expected level of tolerance and values have gone weird around where that line is with it seemingly like you can say whatever you want on one side but on the other even the slightest deviation is now unacceptable.

I mean the old quote goes

"I may not agree with what you have to say but I'd die to defend your right to say it"

It seems these days to be becoming

"I don't agree with what you say and if I thought I could get away with it I'd kill you to make sure it wasn't heard".

The thing with boycotts is they show who is often serious about things and one side (and it's not left vs right here or shouldn't be) keeps losing so they're having to rely on knee jerk reactions and initial pressure far more and not a "Strength of conviction" or whatever.

E.G. The boycott of Cyberpunk 2077 by certain people on social media. The Boycott of Ubisoft due to the abuse allegations. The weird boycotting of Steam because "Gamers" like Steam.

Hell "The left" (they're not the left but whatever) are more than welcome to keep trying their boycotts and maybe one of them will be successful as is though they seemingly weren't willing or knew they didn't have the numbers to make a boycott of The Mandalorian work.
 

Eacaraxe

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The treatment Best was subjected to has been covered and condemned in recent years. In fact, it's cited as one of the earliest examples of how vicious fans can be.
Yes, and when it's brought up it's left to inference who was doing the toxic criticism and harassment, implied to be "just" "toxic fans". Because that time around it was the social justice-y types doing it. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly see racists (or "racists") complaining about minstrelsy and calling characters in fiction "Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit", do you?

Also, no one is defending what was done to Finn in Rise of Skywalker.
Nah, they just toss out red herrings, poison the well by "that's a bad faith argument!" bullshit, and launch straw man attacks, to avoid having to answer to that criticism. If you're changing the subject or moving the goalposts, you're defending the position by proxy.

See also, criticism of Rey's perceived lack of character arc and vague, unstructured characterization over the trilogy; insensible and illogical plot threads that were largely left unfinished in LotJ, along with poor characterization and self-contradictory themes; criticism of underutilizing Lupita Nyong'o contrary to promises and the poor characterization of Maz Kanata and the same of Gwendoline Christie; poor utilization of legacy characters; and more.
 
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Cicada 5

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Yes, and when it's brought up it's left to inference who was doing the toxic criticism and harassment, implied to be "just" "toxic fans". Because that time around it was the social justice-y types doing it. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly see racists (or "racists") complaining about minstrelsy and calling characters in fiction "Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit", do you?
Complaining about a fictional character being a racist stereotype and attacking the actor who played him are different things. More than being hated for perceived racism, there was also a segment of fans who hated Jar Jar just for being a comic relief character. I'd lay odds those were the ones who went out of their way to personally harass and torment Best while the ones who simply disliked Jar Jar for racist reasons never attacked the actor who played him.

Jake Lloyd got bullied out of an acting career because of his role in Phantom Menace and George Lucas had people sending him death threats or people joking about killing him. These were not the social justice types. And while I won't claim such people are perfect the "anti-SJW" crowd are far more likely to be the ones to pull this type of crap.


Nah, they just toss out red herrings, poison the well by "that's a bad faith argument!" bullshit, and launch straw man attacks, to avoid having to answer to that criticism. If you're changing the subject or moving the goalposts, you're defending the position by proxy.

See also, criticism of Rey's perceived lack of character arc and vague, unstructured characterization over the trilogy; insensible and illogical plot threads that were largely left unfinished in LotJ, along with poor characterization and self-contradictory themes; criticism of underutilizing Lupita Nyong'o contrary to promises and the poor characterization of Maz Kanata and the same of Gwendoline Christie; poor utilization of legacy characters; and more.
The well is poisoned by people who react to the mere presence of women, minorities or LGBT people as anything other sexual conquests, villains or comic relief like a war crime. People are willing to engage with reasonable criticisms when they are made in good faith. Unfortunately, you've got too many bad actors tainting any reasonable debate while not being checked by the more level-headed people on their side.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Ah, the good old "Hitler loved puppys"-argument. Whatever else Carano does or doesn't do is irrelevant to the fact that she's been making a lot of waves on social media by posting, re-posting and defending abhorrent alt-right talking points, including anti-semitic talking points.
Ah the good old everyone I dislike is Hitler position.

Also name the abhorrent talking points. Actually say what they are not just a label, what specifically did she say or post?
 

Casual Shinji

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Yes, and when it's brought up it's left to inference who was doing the toxic criticism and harassment, implied to be "just" "toxic fans". Because that time around it was the social justice-y types doing it. I don't know about you, but I don't exactly see racists (or "racists") complaining about minstrelsy and calling characters in fiction "Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit", do you?
Dude, everyone hated Jar Jar at the time. EVERYONE. And not because he was a preceived racist character, but because he was an awful comic relief character in the next super hyped up 'holy shit this is actually finally happening' sequel/prequel to Star Wars. Which at the time was still a huge fucking deal. The level of anticipation was unprecedented, so this character spoiling it for those fans got all that juiced-up fan vitriol. Whatever criticism there was of racial stereotyping was on the far fringe. And if the worst that got was complaining about minstrelsy and Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit then that hardly equates to bullying.

It also doesn't explain Jake Loyd who got just as much shit from the same crowd, and there was nothing even remotely "SJW" about the hate he received. Again, he was a person most fans thought ruined something they loved so they came down on him hard.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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No. It is pointing out that you are using a rhetorical fallacy in which you deflect from the criticism at hand by bringing up something positive but unrelated that the criticized party does or is. It is called "Hitler loved puppies" because that (along with him hating smoking and being a vegetarian) are old Neo-Nazi talking points.
And my point was it's very easy to make some-one into a villain if all you do is present their villainous actions or talk about them and they become the most publicly known thing about them.

Is Gina Carano hitler? No she's not but people seem to be very interested in painting her as female hitler.


Dude, just go back in this thread. There's a link in the OP and a bunch of other people have all brought them up. You've even tried to rebutt most of them. I'm not going to reset this discussion just because you can't frame actual arguments.
No I can, I'm just not allowing arguments to be framed based on falsehoods and vague claims and misrepresentations.

You say Gina did these things deliberately (because they have to be deliberate to truly be the acts being claimed) then show her doing it with intent. Otherwise it's just mean girls gossip and rumormongering.
 

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Mostly because people were used to the Stormtroopers being clones and no-one was aware quite how far into the future the new Trilogy was or the changes that had happened. Also funny how things have changed with some publications upset the New Order is too diverse now.
I'm pretty sure the Empire stopped using Jango Fett Clones after the Clone Wars ended with only Vaders personal legion consisting solely of clone troopers.
 

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Case in fucking point, almost as if according to script...

Complaining about a fictional character being a racist stereotype and attacking the actor who played him are different things...I'd lay odds those were the ones who went out of their way to personally harass and torment Best while the ones who simply disliked Jar Jar for racist reasons never attacked the actor who played him.
...And not because he was a preceived racist character...Whatever criticism there was of racial stereotyping was on the far fringe. And if the worst that got was complaining about minstrelsy and Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit then that hardly equates to bullying.
A no true Scotsman and special pleading.

Yes, the mainstream American press is a far fringe that can be ignored in "the big picture". Despite what Best himself says,


Ahmed Best said:
When was the first time you can remember being genuinely hurt by the negative reactions to Jar Jar Binks?
It didn't happen until the New York press junkets. The first person who kind of gave me an idea of where it was going was a writer from The New York Post. I didn't really think much about it because I always felt like the The New York Post was a paper that fed off of that type of energy, that type of negativity. Growing up in New York you know which papers give you the news and which papers give you the gossip and the Post was definitely heavier on the gossip side than anything else. But I was really surprised that everyone picked up on that afterwards. It's a very American thing to take somebody down when they're at the top and a lot if it had to with that; people really wanted to see George crash and burn.

[...]

Joe Morganstern of the Wall Street Journal referred to your character as a "Rastafarian Stepen Fetchit." He wasn't alone in calling foul over the potential racial implications of Jar Jar. As someone who is very much conscious of being black in mass media, how did you take that?
It just further underscores the ignorance and the blind unrealness of dealing with racism in this country. The lack of education and the lack of exposure to what actually is racist to non-black folks is abysmal. For anyone to say that is offensive because it shows the ignorance of not knowing what a Rastafarian is and not having proper education and knowledge of what minstrelsy was in the time of vaudeville, Butterfly McQueen, and Stepen Fetchit. They really don't know what those roles were and why those roles were.
I think that ignorance and that lack of education that's pervasive in this country not only allows criticism like that to be actually voiced without any type of proof. It also allows what goes on in modern filmmaking as far as [limited] roles for black people—black people have experiences other than the jail- and gang-related [stories] being shown in movies today. They don't believe that black actors, specifically black American actors, have enough depth to try these other roles and it has turned into the outsourcing of an incredible amount of American talent. The top black actors in the world right now are both British. And they're the only ones being allowed to play these roles that have a lot more depth and gravitas. There's nothing wrong with playing a brother in jail as long as there's a lot more to the character than, "I kill people and I'm black." So, [Morganstern's] criticism underscores that lack of intelligence and original ideas in folks who try to understand the black experience in entertainment.
It's awful funny how the only links to Best interviews and articles about Best that get passed around by certain folks, are the ones which conveniently omit the "Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit" part of the story. Almost as if an rhetorical agenda is being pursued rather than genuine analysis of the situation twenty years ago.

And of course, the red herring:

Jake Lloyd got bullied out of an acting career because of his role in Phantom Menace and George Lucas had people sending him death threats or people joking about killing him. These were not the social justice types. And while I won't claim such people are perfect the "anti-SJW" crowd are far more likely to be the ones to pull this type of crap.
It also doesn't explain Jake Loyd who got just as much shit from the same crowd, and there was nothing even remotely "SJW" about the hate he received. Again, he was a person most fans thought ruined something they loved so they came down on him hard.
Yes, Jake Lloyd took a lot of shit. But Jake Lloyd is not Ahmed Best, and Jake Lloyd did not take shit for perceived racial stereotyping. Nobody dismisses this? That's literally what's being attempted, right now, as we speak.

If you're gonna say "nobody does this", it's a good idea to not do it in your literal next post. You look like an idiot if some raging jackass like me comes along and points it out. Which speaking of,

The well is poisoned by people who react to the mere presence of women, minorities or LGBT people as anything other sexual conquests, villains or comic relief like a war crime. People are willing to engage with reasonable criticisms when they are made in good faith. Unfortunately, you've got too many bad actors tainting any reasonable debate while not being checked by the more level-headed people on their side.
This is literally the phenomenon I just pointed out. Guilt by association. If you criticize these given works, regardless of the arguments you make either in premise or form, those criticisms are to be taken as bad faith because guilty parties have made similar arguments.

No, you do not get your cake and eat it too by saying "well, reasonable criticism is possible!" but reneging on it by saying "just not by anyone, because criticisms are assumed to be in bad faith by default". You're not trying to make a good faith point either, and you're sure as shit not a good faith actor. Which makes you a hypocrite if you whine about "bad faith" from "the other side".

See, this is why I didn't present example arguments when I made my original point. I knew people would be unable to resist the bait, and come along to prove the point for me. Folks came along and acted in exactly the way I just said they would, in response to the very post I predicted that behavior.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Case in fucking point, almost as if according to script...

A no true Scotsman and special pleading.

Yes, the mainstream American press is a far fringe that can be ignored in "the big picture". Despite what Best himself says,


It's awful funny how the only links to Best interviews and articles about Best that get passed around by certain folks, are the ones which conveniently omit the "Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit" part of the story. Almost as if an rhetorical agenda is being pursued rather than genuine analysis of the situation twenty years ago.
The mainstream media, if we're talking critics, didn't invent or even spur on the hatred toward Jar Jar, that was pretty much all the fans. Just as it was with Loyd. And in that article Best mentions critics making the comparison to racial stereotypes NOT that this was the source of all the fan hate, because critics generally move on to other movies. Also when have fans ever taken critics' view points into consideration? It was the fans that held and vocalized that heated grudge for so long, against Lucas, Loyd, and the character of Jar Jar.

You can argue that there were people claiming racism among the hatred toward Jar Jar, but saying it was what sparked the hatred or that it was anything more than a fraction of it, no. Your regular hardcore Star Wars fan didn't give a shit about racist stereotyping, certainly not back then when such criticism was waved off, and certainly not in the face of an all new hyped Star Wars sequel.

Your argument that the hate Jar Jar/Best received was solely due to the PC crowd or "SJW's" is baloney. The "SJW's" had barely even surfaced back then and certainly didn't hold any sort of pull over media, that was then still squarely in the hands of conservatives.

Also, what's with the 'aha, I knew people would react to my post in a way I totally predicted, but didn't actually state so you'll have to take my word for it' type behaviour some people here seem to express?
 
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Houseman

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She's still propagating anti-semitic memes
She never did.
Hey, did you ever find that original Nazi Propaganda work that "Freedom for Humanity" is based off of?

Or are you going to continue to make accusations without even a shred of evidence to back them up?
 
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Agema

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Or are you going to continue to make accusations without even a shred of evidence to back them up?
Please don't ask other people for that without first showing some contrition for that 100+ page election thread.
 

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Please don't ask other people for that without first showing some contrition for that 100+ page election thread.
I think a quick fix for that is to find hundreds of people who will agree to anything against Gina Carano simply due to their personal biases. Then we need to have several inquiries that will only matter if they find that those hundreds of grievances have credence to their claims merely by the complainants saying it's true.

Then we have to assume that's as good as actual physical evidence and it must mean something is very possibly wrong here, therefore we must assume guilt on behalf of Carano.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Irrelevant. She's still propagating anti-semitic memes and conspiracy theories and deserves to be chided for those things. Imagine a man accused of DUI, who's lawyer puts forth that "my client pays his taxes and donates to the WWF, your honor". He still broke the law. Carano posted what she did and we can absolutely criticize her for that, and have a discussion solely about her posting that, without having to somehow account for the fact that she likely has good opinions mixed in with her hate.
Tell me what did she say?
Hell the meme she shared was an edited one changed from the original so you could argue it's been deliberately changed to remove that aspect of it from the original art.
Gina also didn't break a law here.

Again people are presenting Gina as an uncaring monster. You seem rather angry I'm showing she's really not. Why?

Unless you can prove that she was under duress or influence of mind altering substances, this is all just tripe. Carano posted these things on her social media and defended them, you can't get much more deliberate then that.
Did she fully know the origin of the stuff? Was she expected to understand all the things connected with what she shared? If some-one shares a Norse rune on social media because they like Norse stuff are they guilty of being white supremacists because some of them use that.