Gina Carano Fired From “The Mandalorian” Over “Abhorrent” Social Media Posts

Houseman

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Did she fully know the origin of the stuff? Was she expected to understand all the things connected with what she shared? If some-one shares a Norse rune on social media because they like Norse stuff are they guilty of being white supremacists because some of them use that.
This is a good point. I look at that picture and I just see a bunch of rich people playing monopoly on the backs of other people. Especially with the caption: "all we have to do is stand up and their game is over", it seems to be a statement about class, not race. How is anyone supposed to know that the people playing monopoly are Jewish? I don't see any exaggerated noses or yarmulkes or anything.

The accusation of antisemitism hinges on the "common knowledge" that there's some devious intent behind this painting.

But Geth is either unable or unwilling to prove the real origins of this painting and that these origins should be known to everyone.
 

Houseman

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Someone with a history of alt-right posting makes a post referencing a traditional far right and popular alt-right talking point.
"...Gethsemani claimed again, without evidence"
and have yet to show anything of actual substance that might prove she's an innocent flower
You have yet to show anything of actual substance proving that the image she shared is antisemitic. Don't go accusing others of that which you are guilty of yourself.

Because of how strictly you seem to be ignoring my requests for evidence, I wouldn't be surprised of you put me on ignore so you would have to hear me calling you out anymore.

I propose that the rest of us should ignore your unproven accusations, since you ignore my requests that you provide evidence for those assertions.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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So now we've reached "u mad bro?" levels of discussion. Stay classy.
Well we were at the "She's a monster why won't you believe me" level of discussion a few posts back.


Someone with a history of alt-right posting makes a post referencing a traditional far right and popular alt-right talking point.
What Alt-right thing has Gina previously posted?
The set photos? The comment about people fear others standing up? Some of her more silly shitposts?

Damn her Alt-right Owl posting


Damn her pushing the Alt-right position of celebrating the FBI shutting down some human trafficking


Damn her pushing the Alt-right position of getting people to think for themselves?


Damn her pushing the Alt-right position of privacy concerns round always on microphones in peoples houses?


Is "Epstein Didn't kill himself" now an Alt-right only position, I think she posted that once before too lol

Was it a mistake? Maybe. The fact that she didn't apologize and remove it suggests otherwise though. At this point you are just cycling through rote excuses for bad behavior though and have yet to show anything of actual substance that might prove she's an innocent flower that can't take responsibility for her own actions. You just keep throwing these excuses up as if Carano isn't an adult and doesn't have a history of being an asshole online.
At this stage you're just cycling through a rote of accusations seeing if any of them will be allowed to stick.

You keep claiming she has this history of being a terrible person online, yet you bring nothing to show for it except accusations with no evidence.

She's an adult but so are you so why are we getting the weird Highschool / playground esc rumours being spread here without substance to back them up?
 

ObsidianJones

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I think a quick fix for that is to find hundreds of people who will agree to anything against Gina Carano simply due to their personal biases. Then we need to have several inquiries that will only matter if they find that those hundreds of grievances have credence to their claims merely by the complainants saying it's true.

Then we have to assume that's as good as actual physical evidence and it must mean something is very possibly wrong here, therefore we must assume guilt on behalf of Carano.
Hey, Dwarven, you might not want to like what I said there. It is probably a miscommunication. I'm talking about how Houseman presented accusations and heresy as evidence, and that if we did the same, it should be fine. It was a offcolor way of backing Agema up.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Hey, Dwarven, you might not want to like what I said there. It is probably a miscommunication. I'm talking about how Houseman presented accusations and heresy as evidence, and that if we did the same, it should be fine. It was a offcolor way of backing Agema up.
Not to drag the thing too off topic but while there wasn't a grand conspiracy to win Biden the election. There were some pretty worrying independent cases of fraud that did happen and tightening up the election would benefit both sides a should looking into it lol.




So Houseman at least has some evidence at least supporting looking into things a bit more lol.
 

Hawki

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Yet basically no-one had an issue with Samuel L Jackson and Mace Windu. What it comes down to more is bad writing from what I can tell.
Two points:

-Is Finn really poorer written than Mace Windu? I'm not talking about EU stuff (yes, that includes Clone Wars), I'm talking about the films by themselves. Whatever problems the sequel trilogy has, I'd argue that of the two, Finn is easily a better character than Windu.

-Another difference being that any racist who had a problem with John Boyega at least had some excuse with the whole "stormtroopers are clones" thing (which I don't think was ever true by the OT - there's a plot point in the original Battlefront II where the Empire moved from clones to recruits). In contrast, there's no expectations that a Jedi had to be any one particular thing.

Well outside of China where Disney shrank Finn's image on posters and it's alleged reduced down his film role to appeal to China more. Hell that's allegedly why he and Rose aren't together in Rise of Skywalker.
I can kind of believe that, but Rose had plenty of backlash here as well.

I don't like Rose as a character much, but that she's shoved to the side in Rise makes me uneasy. Makes the bigots think that they won when they hounded Tran off social media.
 

Hawki

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The problem being it all comes off as so hollow and corporate so often. To bring up a very apt thing it's like the Sony Alex Rider series.
In the original book:
Alex's Guardian / Nanny is a red haired American woman
Alex's MI6 is a black woman
Wolf is a Black male soldier who in the book the series is based on takes down the villains henchwoman
In the book the villain was his henchwoman were members of the Apartheid regime
In the books Eagle I think it is (The expert Sniper) is implied to be a black man
In the book the series is based on it's all male all white characters at the boarding school

In the series
Alex's Nanny is a Black American lady
His Handler who is meant to be pretty competent and professional is a white lady.
Wolf doesn't get to take down the henchwoman
The villain in the series is implied to be an believer in the Nazi regime
Eagle ends up being a white woman
The kids at the boarding school are a diverse cast with as many girls as boys.

When you look at the series the changes that seem to be done for the sake of diversity actually come off badly and almost offensive. Competent black characters replaced by white ones. The Nanny being made into a black woman. Wolf not getting his sort of symbolic moment of triumph. Changing the villains to be the more obvious known evil rather than the lesser discussed evils. The biggest what were they thinking moment leads to them basically having one of the characters being a black woman Nazi because of the changes.
This seems like a stretch. Some of the implications in the books are ones I don't recall (e.g. I don't recall Wolf's ethnicity ever being specified), but that said, how many of those changes actually change anything? I'd argue only the Apartheid guy (the one from Point Blanc?) - if they've changed his motivations from that to Nazi, then I can imagine that affecting the story, but apart from that? I mean, take Alex for example. You could change her skin colour, you could change her from American to any other nationality, it wouldn't change much.

Thing is I can point all this out and because it's a decent chunk of text and actually takes time some-one can just go "You just hate Black people and women" and that claim is then spread because it's easy for people to believe that.
Though I'll also agree that characters can, and have, gone down the excuse of "you don't like X? You're a bigot." Even if there's genuien bigots out there (as Star Wars has demonstrated), not all criticism can be dismissed out of hand. As a personal example, I think making the 13th Doctor a female was a case of pandering, but even if 13 was male, Chibnall's era would still have all of the same problems I've pointed out over the last few years.
 

Hawki

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Mostly because people were used to the Stormtroopers being clones and no-one was aware quite how far into the future the new Trilogy was or the changes that had happened. Also funny how things have changed with some publications upset the New Order is too diverse now.

I think I lost a few brain cells reading that. Even more than a similar op-ed I read awhile ago basically opinioning the same thing - that the First Order being more diverse was "problematic."

I can imagine an alternate timeline where people are writing about the "unbearable whiteness" of the First Order, and that it's unacceptable that more POC aren't able to be bad guys.

Johnny Rico from Starship Troopers was played by Casper Van Dien. Who is obviously not Filipino as he was detailed to be in the book.
Except his ethnicity is never relevant in the book or movie.

I don't doubt there's some people who might be put off by that, but even in the book, you can make Johnny any ethnicity you want, and you wouldn't have to change a line of dialogue.

Our Gods are played by White Actors
If we're talking about Gods of Egypt, a few points:

1: The setting itself isn't Egypt in any real sense. Yes, it's called Egypt, but "Egypt" in the setting is pretty much the entire planet, and a planet that's flat at that.

2: If people are miffed at the gods there, then people should also be miffed at Heimdall being portrayed by Idris Elba in the Thor films. Both are cases of transporting a pantheon into a setting that is distinct from the mythology that spawned them (i.e. both Asgard and Egypt are not on Earth in both cases).

3: I know you're of African heritage, but is that enough to claim Egyptian's pantheon as "yours?" I mean, some of my DNA is Sweedish, that doesn't make the Norse gods 'mine.'

When white actors play minority roles, we get "why does it matter if the writing/movie is good". When minority actors are anywhere to be seen "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS PC VIA DIVERSITY?!??!?!"
The world's got no shortage of hypocrites, I'll grant you. Best I can do is keep it consistent.

Do you get how vexing it is that people are more willing to see Slug Monsters talk to white people than black people sharing the spot light in a galaxy far, far away?
I'm humble enough to admit that not as well as you, but yes, it's absolutely insane.

No, that isn't hyperbole. Going back to Finn, the outrage made no sense. Even if stormtroopers were clones (which they weren't by the time of the OT, see the original Battlefront 2 as to why), it's bizzare that people jumped to "forced diversity" as opposed to considering stuff like "well, maybe this Empire-lite faction changed its recruitment," or "maybe John Boyega is playing someone who's undercover." But nup. "Forced diversity."

Sure, whatever.

As a film example that also worked well (but also brought problematic implications) Wilson Fisk "Kingpin" in the Daredevil film. The guy they got for the role they said was just the best for it. I saw it and they were damn right he was great in the role. Though that comes with the problematic element of the head of crime then being changed from a black guy to a white guy.
To the last point...really?

Because if we're going down that route, then it's a rabbit hole that I don't see ending up anywhere good. Something like "we need more Afro-Americans in films, but not as villains." The first part of that sentence is easier to justify than the second.

They were clones in the prequels. The working assumption was they were clones in the sequel trilogy too because it's mentioned more batches are being produced to meet need. Also it explains why they're all bad shots lol.
That really doesn't follow.

First, it was established before the sequel trilogy that the Empire started recruiting stormtroopers rather than cloning them. Second, even if that wasn't established, just because there's clone troopers serving the Republic isn't enough to say that clones are serving the Empire.
 

Hawki

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Everybody loves talking about harassment, fan backlashes, and "fandom toxicity", until the rubber hits the road and it was people upset over perceived racial stereotyping that nearly drove Best to suicide way back in the day.

Meanwhile you got Boyega and Finn over here, same motherfuckers defending how Disney reduced his character and character arc into an actual "Uncle Tomfoolery" trope over the course of the trilogy.
I can only speak for myself here, but:

-I wasn't aware of the backlash that Best (and for that matter, Lloyd) got for their role in the prequels until way after the prequels were released. In the knowledge of those actions, yes, the backlash was despicable. I condemn it wholeheartedly.

-I was aware of the backlash John Boyega experienced from the outset, and criticized it from the outset.

-That said, does Finn really devolve as a character? In Rise of Skywalker, maybe...there's an argument that he's shoved to the side, but he goes through distinct arcs in the first two films. Even in the third, there's arguably the conclusion of his arc (that his defection inspired Jannah and the other stormtroopers to defect), though it's definitely undercooked.
 

Trunkage

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Not to drag the thing too off topic but while there wasn't a grand conspiracy to win Biden the election. There were some pretty worrying independent cases of fraud that did happen and tightening up the election would benefit both sides a should looking into it lol.



When you say 'tighten up', what specific rules (or whatever) would have stopped these guys from committing fruad?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Two points:

-Is Finn really poorer written than Mace Windu? I'm not talking about EU stuff (yes, that includes Clone Wars), I'm talking about the films by themselves. Whatever problems the sequel trilogy has, I'd argue that of the two, Finn is easily a better character than Windu.

-Another difference being that any racist who had a problem with John Boyega at least had some excuse with the whole "stormtroopers are clones" thing (which I don't think was ever true by the OT - there's a plot point in the original Battlefront II where the Empire moved from clones to recruits). In contrast, there's no expectations that a Jedi had to be any one particular thing.



I can kind of believe that, but Rose had plenty of backlash here as well.

I don't like Rose as a character much, but that she's shoved to the side in Rise makes me uneasy. Makes the bigots think that they won when they hounded Tran off social media.
Mace Windu is also a tertiary character (I wouldn't even say he's secondary) who is introduced kind of at the point he's already achieved a lot. Who gets his own badass moment taking down Jango Fett.

I don't think Finn even gets a moment to show himself as a really badass Jedi. He just gets relegated to the B plot a lot of the time.

As for Rose, bad writing people didn't like her whole "Oh I'm sacrificing the Rebels for love" story as such. Also yes they screwed her over in Rise of Skywalker, in part again because China...... China didn't like an Asian looking girl kissing a black guy so they split them up as such.


I think I lost a few brain cells reading that. Even more than a similar op-ed I read awhile ago basically opinioning the same thing - that the First Order being more diverse was "problematic."
I think I read that one too lol

I can imagine an alternate timeline where people are writing about the "unbearable whiteness" of the First Order, and that it's unacceptable that more POC aren't able to be bad guys.
Most likely lol


To the last point...really?
Sorry I put it the wrong way round and didn't realise.

Fisk is white in the comics so it could be said the be problematic to make him Black when a part of his identity is as a criminal mobster


Because if we're going down that route, then it's a rabbit hole that I don't see ending up anywhere good. Something like "we need more Afro-Americans in films, but not as villains." The first part of that sentence is easier to justify than the second.
It's a rabbit hole but it's where it would go. At least in modern times.


That really doesn't follow.

First, it was established before the sequel trilogy that the Empire started recruiting stormtroopers rather than cloning them. Second, even if that wasn't established, just because there's clone troopers serving the Republic isn't enough to say that clones are serving the Empire.
Well if people only followed the films I don't think it's brought up much in them about the Stormtroopers beyond the start of The Clone Wars.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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When you say 'tighten up', what specific rules (or whatever) would have stopped these guys from committing fraud?
Well a basic check of "Well he court records say these people suddenly having some-one request to vote on their behalf have been deemed mentally incapable of consenting" maybe we look into this? Would have stopped that case dead before the votes were sent out and submitted.
 

Hawki

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Mace Windu is also a tertiary character (I wouldn't even say he's secondary) who is introduced kind of at the point he's already achieved a lot. Who gets his own badass moment taking down Jango Fett.

I don't think Finn even gets a moment to show himself as a really badass Jedi. He just gets relegated to the B plot a lot of the time.
Well, Finn isn't a Jedi for one thing. There's hints, yes, but they're hints that are almost entirely in Rise, and its inability to follow through with them is more a problem with the film rather than the trilogy.

Second, Finn does get a moment, and it's with his defeat of Phasma. A defeat that's much better done in the alternate cut (yet another scene that was cut from Last Jedi for reasons I don't understand), but a defeat nonetheless. And, I'd argue, a more impactful one than Windu. Finn defeating Phasma works on the character level because Phasma's his superior, he bests her, cue character development. Jango Fett is just some smuck to Mace Windu, and he dies because he apparently forgets he can just fly away. And even if he'd judging these scenes solely on the action involved, Finn vs. Phasma is still more entertaining than Windu vs. Jango.

As for Rose, bad writing people didn't like her whole "Oh I'm sacrificing the Rebels for love" story as such. Also yes they screwed her over in Rise of Skywalker, in part again because China...... China didn't like an Asian looking girl kissing a black guy so they split them up as such.
Is there an actual source for the China thing?

I mean, the backlash to Rose in the West was bad enough (or more specifically, against Tran), but while anti-miscegenation sentiment can come from anywhere (including minorities), to have that sentiment affect the course of a film? Yikes...

Fisk is white in the comics so it could be said the be problematic to make him Black when a part of his identity is as a criminal mobster
I know Fisk was originally white. I'm questioning the rationale that making him black is problematic.

Yes, I know about potential stereotypes, but I'd argue that refusing to cast an African lead as Fisk because of fears is far more regressive. If they found the best actor for the job, then that's what matters.

Thing is, if we're playing that game, let's look at Fisk's body size. He's obese, or muscular, or whatever. So if I cast an obese person as an actor, I could be accused of fatshaming/stigmatizing the overweight community (yes, I've seen this argument, if not for Fisk himself). If I cast someone who isn't overweight, then I could be accused of denying a role to overweight actors.

Now of course, I don't have to make these decisions, but someone is always going to be offended in some way. The First Order thing is another example. All I can say is that in this example, I don't recall Fisk's skin colour ever being relevant, and if he isn't going to use his weight as a weapon like he does in some variants, body size presumably doesn't matter. So I'd argue here, that there isn't a problem.

And since someone is going to point this out, yes, I'm not the arbiter of what's offensive and what isn't. But I'd still maintain that sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar regardless.
 

Trunkage

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Well a basic check of "Well he court records say these people suddenly having some-one request to vote on their behalf have been deemed mentally incapable of consenting" maybe we look into this? Would have stopped that case dead before the votes were sent out and submitted.
Well, the articles you are talking about here was figured out two days after the election. So it sounds like that's automatic. I don't know if this can before... Figuring out if someone is going to commit fraud is probably too big of an ask.

I would definitely have preferred the first two articles being found out before the congress vote in December but I think I remember in previous elections some fruad not being found out for way longer. I also don't want jumping the gun and claiming fraud just to reach a deadline and being wrong.

Also, I don't think you could ever stop someone like Frederick Gattuso. Smaller fruad is easier to hide than large.

I'm not against tightening things up.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Well, Finn isn't a Jedi for one thing. There's hints, yes, but they're hints that are almost entirely in Rise, and its inability to follow through with them is more a problem with the film rather than the trilogy.
I dunno him holding a lightsaber in posters etc was either meant to lead to something more or really screwing with peoples expectations then

Second, Finn does get a moment, and it's with his defeat of Phasma. A defeat that's much better done in the alternate cut (yet another scene that was cut from Last Jedi for reasons I don't understand), but a defeat nonetheless. And, I'd argue, a more impactful one than Windu. Finn defeating Phasma works on the character level because Phasma's his superior, he bests her, cue character development. Jango Fett is just some smuck to Mace Windu, and he dies because he apparently forgets he can just fly away. And even if he'd judging these scenes solely on the action involved, Finn vs. Phasma is still more entertaining than Windu vs. Jango.
True though Windu vs Jango has a larger impact on the overall universe really.


Is there an actual source for the China thing?

I mean, the backlash to Rose in the West was bad enough (or more specifically, against Tran), but while anti-miscegenation sentiment can come from anywhere (including minorities), to have that sentiment affect the course of a film? Yikes...
Official source? No but considering what they already did with Finn it makes the most sense


I know Fisk was originally white. I'm questioning the rationale that making him black is problematic.
Can't show black guys as criminals or it's sterotyping.

Yes, I know about potential stereotypes, but I'd argue that refusing to cast an African lead as Fisk because of fears is far more regressive. If they found the best actor for the job, then that's what matters.
Yes but again welcome to the age we live in where it would be deemed offensive now.

Thing is, if we're playing that game, let's look at Fisk's body size. He's obese, or muscular, or whatever. So if I cast an obese person as an actor, I could be accused of fatshaming/stigmatizing the overweight community (yes, I've seen this argument, if not for Fisk himself). If I cast someone who isn't overweight, then I could be accused of denying a role to overweight actors.

Now of course, I don't have to make these decisions, but someone is always going to be offended in some way. The First Order thing is another example. All I can say is that in this example, I don't recall Fisk's skin colour ever being relevant, and if he isn't going to use his weight as a weapon like he does in some variants, body size presumably doesn't matter. So I'd argue here, that there isn't a problem.

And since someone is going to point this out, yes, I'm not the arbiter of what's offensive and what isn't. But I'd still maintain that sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar regardless.
Well that's why people say it's a no-win scenario now for a lot of stuff because if people want to be offended they will and the only way to stop it is kinda paying certain media outlets etc or setting up a narrative where the "Toxic fans" are seen to be attacking some-one to the publications can fell all good and heroic reporting on how awful things are happening and need to stop.
 

Hawki

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I dunno him holding a lightsaber in posters etc was either meant to lead to something more or really screwing with peoples expectations then
Almost certainly a case of subverting expectations IMO. Yes, Finn is wielding the lightsaber on the poster, and wields it for most of the film, but he never displays any Force powers in TFA.

True though Windu vs Jango has a larger impact on the overall universe really.
Yes, true, but taking the films by themselves?

I don't think it's fair in this case to compare respective impacts, because Windu and Jango have 10 years and more of a headstart over Finn to be fleshed out. And I'd argue further that the main reason they're even remembered is because of EU material.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Almost certainly a case of subverting expectations IMO. Yes, Finn is wielding the lightsaber on the poster, and wields it for most of the film, but he never displays any Force powers in TFA.



Yes, true, but taking the films by themselves?

I don't think it's fair in this case to compare respective impacts, because Windu and Jango have 10 years and more of a headstart over Finn to be fleshed out. And I'd argue further that the main reason they're even remembered is because of EU material.
I mean as a Tertiary character he kinda still got to do close to as much as Finn and while he didn't really have an arc he did get to really be badass at moments.

As for Finn we don't see any big impact from Phasma's death as such she's not some super key part of The New Order's machine as such.
 

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I mean as a Tertiary character he kinda still got to do close to as much as Finn and while he didn't really have an arc he did get to really be badass at moments.

As for Finn we don't see any big impact from Phasma's death as such she's not some super key part of The New Order's machine as such.
I'd maintain that character development overrides "badass" moments. But even that aside, what does Mace Windu actually do in the prequel trilogy? Pretty much nothing in the first film. In the second, he does take out Jango and fight on Geonosis, so that's something, I guess. In the third, again, not too much outside Palpatine. And Windu's role in that scene is to provide a catalyst for Anakin's fall from grace, rather than being a culmination of any character arc he might have (which he doesn't).

As for Finn vs. Phasma, well, true, but Jango didn't seem to be that high up with the separatists either. I'm not even sure if he could be said to be on their side, since he also provided the genetic material for the clones. But regardless of Phasma's standing, Finn defeating Phasma is key to his character development. Windu defeating Jango isn't.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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And Windu's role in that scene is to provide a catalyst for Anakin's fall from grace, rather than being a culmination of any character arc he might have (which he doesn't).
Does Finn even have an arc? He realizes stormtroopers are bad 10 seconds into the first movie and that's it. He achieves nothing in the second movie and his potential sacrifice is negated (hypocritically) as selfish. Again he's around for the third movie and achieves nothing. He doesn't even drive the B-plots he's assigned.

The problem with Phasma is she's already "beaten" in Force Awakens so having her die the second time doesn't really matter much. Same with Kylo losing every duel he's in throughout the trilogy.