Hogwarts Legacy Will Allow For Transgender Characters

[CriticalGaming]

EA pushed the narrative people not liking ME3 was due to homophobes not sexism just to point that out / correct it if I said sexism by mistake and didn't realise.

Well again, i dug around and I couldn't find any evidence of that. Sorry mate.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Well again, i dug around and I couldn't find any evidence of that. Sorry mate.

I've got some if needed

 

[Silvanus]

At worst a very tiny sector. Which is then often used to smear everyone else. The "Oh you're really just mad about x and using your complaints to cover it". I mean it's a rather insidious tactic to see deployed because PR wise it shifts the focus onto the group wit the objections having to defend against accusations rather than the actual complaints.

If it's a "very tiny sector", it's a sector I seem to come across repeatedly every time these topics come up.

EA are manipulative, abusive scumbags, and the fact that they'll exploit absolutely anything for PR doesn't detract from the fact that toxic sectors of the community exist, and seem to be goddamn loud.

No it's somewhat an engineered thing.

You may believe so, and you've provided several specific examples you find objectionable to illustrate it. But I'm not basing my perception on media reporting of the video game community; I'm active in it. And I'm tired of a game coming out featuring a gay character or whatever, and then finding out the online topics about the game have inevitably devolved into people accusing the company of "pandering" or this-that-and-the-other, usually before the game has even come out.

That's not engineered. I see it happen every damn time.

So no-one said it eh?

[SNIPPED VIDEOS]

I could go on

None of those are saying what you described, though. They're not saying that "anyone who objects to BF5 hates women". My entire point is that you've exaggerated it into a caricature.

I'll reply to the rest of this stuff tomorrow, I'm tired.

 

[Hawki]

Games with progressive elements in them receive valid criticism all the time, and those valid criticisms don't become the subject of a social media backlash.

Are they being criticized for the elements though, or are the elements incidental?

On the subject, I'm not sure how much, if any criticism a game should receive because of their politics in of themselves. For instance, flipping to the other side, I find the politics of CoD fairly offputting. But I don't think it's fair to say that CoD is bad/good because of them (how well it explores its ideas is another matter).

It's a complete invention. Nobody is saying that "anyone with objections to BFV hates women". That's transparently, obviously made up.

Maybe not in those exact words, but it comes close in areas - take the Ghostbusters 2016 fiasco for instance. Yes, a lot of criticism was pretty sexist, but there's plenty of reasons to criticize it beyond that, even if I liked it myself. If your defence is "if you dislike X, you're (insert term here), then that isn't really a rebuttal.

Well first of all there's a difference between "woke" and progress.

Okay, I agree in theory, but:

Woke: We added women into the game by changing real life stories of the action of men to be women.

Progress: We actually told stories about the real women in that period in history.

I don't know if that's fair to say. Are you referring to the Norwegian missions? The actual events are made up, but it's not presented as "this is what really happened." It's not as if WWII games have taken liberties with history before (see Medal of Honour for instance).

Woke: We made 007 a lesbian now

Progress: We made a different character whose also a badass secret agent who is a lesbian.

No-one's made 007 a lesbian though...

Woke: Plastic pollution is bad but feel free to keep taking long haul flights.

Progress: Hey have you maybe considered the Ozone layer recently?

You're conflating three seperate issues.

The Ozone layer isn't really an issue anymore since we phased out CFCs. The layer should be fully healed sometime mid-century.

Plastic pollution is tangentally related to climate change. Yes, plastic comes from oil, but, well, I'll put it this way. Climate change could not be an issue, and plastic waste would remain one. Conversely, we could end plastic pollution today, and the climate crisis would still be a crisis.

 

[Hawki]

As for the Battlefield V female hate. People did use the stupid "historical accuracy" arguement and blamed BF for going woke. However Dice and EA simply issued statements of "Don't like it, don't buy it."

Which unfortunately for EA, people didn't. BF5 sold less than half the copies that the previous entry in the series sold, and did so poorly that there has yet to be another Battlefield game almost 3 years later. Now I'm not suggesting people were THAT upset about chicks on the battlefield, because the vast majority of complainers still likely bought the game.

However objective players were simply unhappy with the gameplay in BF5 as a whole. The maps were bad, the guns were unbalanced, the gameplay was lacking, and the story mode was trash.

And perhaps some feminists with platforms might have blamed toxic masculinity, as they do with anything involving women that fails. But as usual it's just an excuse for a shitty product being shitty.

EA and DICE were absolutely in their right to say "don't like it, don't buy it." That's how media operate.

I also disagree that BF5 was shitty. Flawed, yes, but not shitty. I had fun with it.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I also disagree that BF5 was shitty. Flawed, yes, but not shitty. I had fun with it.

I mean that's fine, but the sales number clearly show that people were not welcoming of it.

And i do agree that the "dont like it, dont buy it" Was how things should go. Unfortunately that isn't how things go now-a-days. If you don't like something, you are required to demonize it and label it as some flavor of hate or phobic until they change that thing or cancel it outright. Haven't you been paying attention?

 

[Hawki]

I mean that's fine, but the sales number clearly show that people were not welcoming of it.

And i do agree that the "dont like it, dont buy it" Was how things should go. Unfortunately that isn't how things go now-a-days. If you don't like something, you are required to demonize it and label it as some flavor of hate or phobic until they change that thing or cancel it outright. Haven't you been paying attention?

I don't know if you're "required," but yes, that's true to an extent. But that isn't new. That's been going on since, well, forever really. People who'd never read/watched/played something will demonize it regardless. Heck, I'm not even immune to that myself. I have a negative view towards Twilight for instance because discourse has fed me the notion that it's bad. However, I've only read some of the first book and...well, it's not "good," but it's not the anti-Christ of teenage literature or anything.

Anyway, the BF5 thing was primarily driven by SQWs freaking out over women, so in this case, I'm more sympathetic to the developers than detractors.

Edit: Also, I have to mention this, but people have whined about the 'politics' of BF5, but am I the only one who despises the politics of BF3? Y'know, that game with possibly the most moronic writing I've seen in an MMS, well, ever?

 

[CriticalGaming]

That's been going on since, well, forever really.

That's true, but the difference now is the credence that the outrage is given by media outlets. It's no longer, "don't like it, don't buy it", now it's become "don't like it, destroy it and demonize it".

Frankly I can't understand why companies are giving these people power. It's usually outcries from a psychotic minority who would likely have not bought your product in the first place. So by caving to them you aren't winning anything, you aren't gaining any audience, and if nothing else you are just losing the audience you already had.

i imagine at some point these companies will reach the point where they realize they are actively losing money (or at least leaving a large amount of it on the table) and dial back to absurdity that this nonsense has become.

At least that's my hope. Thankfully the Japanese are basically immune to this and I can still free buy my anime titty games. GOOOOOOO WAIFUS!!!!

 

[BrawlMan]

If it's a "very tiny sector", it's a sector I seem to come across repeatedly every time these topics come up.

EA are manipulative, abusive scumbags, and the fact that they'll exploit absolutely anything for PR doesn't detract from the fact that toxic sectors of the community exist, and seem to be goddamn loud.



You may believe so, and you've provided several specific examples you find objectionable to illustrate it. But I'm not basing my perception on media reporting of the video game community; I'm active in it. And I'm tired of a game coming out featuring a gay character or whatever, and then finding out the online topics about the game have inevitably devolved into people accusing the company of "pandering" or this-that-and-the-other, usually before the game has even come out.

That's not engineered. I see it happen every damn time.



None of those are saying what you described, though. They're not saying that "anyone who objects to BF5 hates women". My entire point is that you've exaggerated it into a caricature.

I'll reply to the rest of this stuff tomorrow, I'm tired.

This why I put Dwarvenhobble on ignore. No use arguing with someone who extends the goal post. I find him boring. Not worth the time.

 

[Trunkage]

That's true, but the difference now is the credence that the outrage is given by media outlets. It's no longer, "don't like it, don't buy it", now it's become "don't like it, destroy it and demonize it".

Frankly I can't understand why companies are giving these people power. It's usually outcries from a psychotic minority who would likely have not bought your product in the first place. So by caving to them you aren't winning anything, you aren't gaining any audience, and if nothing else you are just losing the audience you already had.

i imagine at some point these companies will reach the point where they realize they are actively losing money (or at least leaving a large amount of it on the table) and dial back to absurdity that this nonsense has become.

At least that's my hope. Thankfully the Japanese are basically immune to this and I can still free buy my anime titty games. GOOOOOOO WAIFUS!!!!

Are businesses losing money due to outrage?

 

[BrawlMan]

That's true, but the difference now is the credence that the outrage is given by media outlets. It's no longer, "don't like it, don't buy it", now it's become "don't like it, destroy it and demonize it".

That's more or less what happened with Twilight; it's just more than guys or nerds on the Internet doing it now. Everyone wants that outrage market. I just ignore them and don't give any attention they think they deserve.

Are businesses losing money due to outrage?

I know the Big 3 ain't losing any money right now. Especially Nintendo and Sony.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

If it's a "very tiny sector", it's a sector I seem to come across repeatedly every time these topics come up.

In this forum?

OR just the gaming press highlighting said things.

EA are manipulative, abusive scumbags, and the fact that they'll exploit absolutely anything for PR doesn't detract from the fact that toxic sectors of the community exist, and seem to be goddamn loud.

Because some people in the press keep putting a megaphone by the cricket.

You may believe so, and you've provided several specific examples you find objectionable to illustrate it. But I'm not basing my perception on media reporting of the video game community; I'm active in it. And I'm tired of a game coming out featuring a gay character or whatever, and then finding out the online topics about the game have inevitably devolved into people accusing the company of "pandering" or this-that-and-the-other, usually before the game has even come out.

That's not engineered. I see it happen every damn time.

Except it is entirely possible for something to come off as pandering. I can't think of the last time it really happened outside of Battlefield V where the lead developer came out eventually and basically went "Yeh I'm doing this cause my young daughter asked why she couldn't play as a woman in it" which would count as pandering for the decision.

I'd say it happens a lot more in the press trying to pander by sensationalising the inclusion of the character with headlines like "Meet Dragon Age's new Gay Romance option" or similar which comes off a bit as "Come see the spectacular gay marvel at his strangeness" rather than "Here's Dragon Age's latest romance options [name]"

None of those are saying what you described, though. They're not saying that "anyone who objects to BF5 hates women". My entire point is that you've exaggerated it into a caricature.

I'll reply to the rest of this stuff tomorrow, I'm tired.

yeh the problem is that becomes the entirety of the argument and any other argument gets painted as people just upset about women in the game. Hell I wrote a piece giving my impression on the Beta on the Destructoid Cblogs and ha some-one go "We all know the real reason you wrote this stop pretending" or something like that. When I'd detailed gameplay changes, things I disliked with that and progression stuff etc and how I didn't think it was that much of step up in a lot of ways.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Maybe not in those exact words, but it comes close in areas - take the Ghostbusters 2016 fiasco for instance. Yes, a lot of criticism was pretty sexist, but there's plenty of reasons to criticize it beyond that, even if I liked it myself. If your defence is "if you dislike X, you're (insert term here), then that isn't really a rebuttal.

I mean just google James Rofle Ghostbusters and see some of the articles because he said basically he saw the trailer, didn't think it was funny and had no interest in seeing the film especially as it was being seen as somewhat controversial.

Okay, I agree in theory, but:
I don't know if that's fair to say. Are you referring to the Norwegian missions? The actual events are made up, but it's not presented as "this is what really happened." It's not as if WWII games have taken liberties with history before (see Medal of Honour for instance).

Problem is it wasn't really made up it was based on

Norwegian heavy water sabotage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also the dev team claimed the story mode would tell the real untold stories of real event in World War II.

The War Stories of Battlefield V

Witness human drama set against global conflict.

www.ea.com

In these, you’ll play untold, unexpected stories of human drama set against global conflict through four firsthand accounts inspired by real places and events.

E3 2018: Battlefield V War Stories: Experience the Untold Accounts of World War II - Xbox Wire

Hello Battlefield fans, Many of you took a shine to the War Stories in Battlefield 1 and we at DICE are glad to bring this single-player anthology format back to Battlefield V. In these stories of human drama set against global combat, you’ll witness World War II through the eyes of the men and...

news.xbox.com

War Stories is a way for us to put WWII into perspective through on-the-ground accounts of people wrapped in the broader conflict, told the Battlefield way. In Nordlys, as well as our other War Stories, you won’t come across any superheroes performing crazy stunts and saving the world all by themselves. Instead, you’ll step into the all-too-human shoes of people who, in their own way, played a part in shaping the modern world.

No-one's made 007 a lesbian though...

Yet....... the big push as been for 007 to be played by a woman next and as a lot of the stories are adaptation of the novels they're going to have to have Bond as a lesbian for them to work or suddenly Bond Hunks will be a thing more often lol

You're conflating three seperate issues.

The Ozone layer isn't really an issue anymore since we phased out CFCs. The layer should be fully healed sometime mid-century.

Plastic pollution is tangentally related to climate change. Yes, plastic comes from oil, but, well, I'll put it this way. Climate change could not be an issue, and plastic waste would remain one. Conversely, we could end plastic pollution today, and the climate crisis would still be a crisis.

Yes and no, the overall thing is environmental protection yes each is their own thing but in the cases there is a bit of a difference in the messaging (these are based on Doctor Who).

Also plastic waste does contribute to climate change more directly too.

Decomposing Plastic Revealed as Hidden Source of Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Plastic production is expected to increase dramatically over the next decade.

www.globalcitizen.org

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I don't know if you're "required," but yes, that's true to an extent. But that isn't new. That's been going on since, well, forever really. People who'd never read/watched/played something will demonize it regardless. Heck, I'm not even immune to that myself. I have a negative view towards Twilight for instance because discourse has fed me the notion that it's bad. However, I've only read some of the first book and...well, it's not "good," but it's not the anti-Christ of teenage literature or anything.

Anyway, the BF5 thing was primarily driven by SQWs freaking out over women, so in this case, I'm more sympathetic to the developers than detractors.

Edit: Also, I have to mention this, but people have whined about the 'politics' of BF5, but am I the only one who despises the politics of BF3? Y'know, that game with possibly the most moronic writing I've seen in an MMS, well, ever?

Part of the issue was people who have been cultivated to be fans of the Battlefield series or were the normal target audience felt their views were being dismissed and they were being told in essence "Yeh we're done with you guys go find something else to play you're not valuable enough as customers" which I mean technically true, savy customers are bad for companies who wish to hook unaware whales with microtransaction fests.

As for Twilight, I assume if I watched it without another violent reaction from my body (seriously I've tried 3 times and they ended in 2 Migranes and 1 anime esc nose bleed within 15 minute in my body is telling me now) I'd find it pretty mediocre. I think some of the hates (at least for me) comes from it being a huge phenomena that I just didn't get and wasn't part of. I just didn't understand it at the time (I don't really even now). I've been on a sort of media quest to understand Twilight without watching Twilight for the past year by watching those that tried to follow on from it. My recommendation don't bother the only one worth watching of the films tipped as the Next Twilight was Beautiful Creatures, which is actually good by virtue of being kind of high budget Sabrina the Teenage Witch.

Are businesses losing money due to outrage?

Depends on the outrage.

The Baker Shop accused of racism for detaining students over alleged shoplifting? Absolutely they lost business.

Disney supporting the Chinese officials running the detention camps? Yeh it's probably losing some. Plus firing Gina Carano costing them more.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I saw this article this morning, because apparently people are trying to cancel Eminem based off a song lyric from "Love the Way You Lie". A song released 11 years ago. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/corey-taylor-speaks-against-cancel-234949602.html

Anyway in the article the lead singer of Slipknot spoke out against cancel culture, liking it to the Salem Witch Trails (which is a little extreme, but interestingly on point at the same time)

Corey Taylor (Slipknot) says, "

"I was just reading about how Gen Z is trying to cancel Eminem because of one line that was in a Rihanna song that he did with her. And I’m just like ‘Is that where we are right now?’ I mean, at this point, you’re talking about the Salem witch trials. You’re talking about America in the ’20s where the KKK was like a political force. You’re talking about complete condemnation without context or any rationalization for an action like that.

“To me, that’s the most dangerous — when the mob decides that you’re gone. I mean, that is Caesar at the Colosseum, for God’s sake. That’s when it’s dangerous. The level of censorship that we’re starting to see — and I’m not saying that certain things haven’t been said that easily offend people. However, the flip side of that is that you can’t even make a joke anymore, even in the cleanest of situations. I mean, they completely turn on you. And there’s not one hint of satire, no hint of irony — it’s just all outrage.”

For those wondering, the Eminem lyric that got him “canceled” is “If she ever tries to fucking leave again, I’ma tie her to the bed and set this house on fire.”

Which if you think about it is insanely tame when you consider Em's liberal use of the word Fa**ot throughout his career. I mean he has said some much crazier shit in his songs, like killing his mom, drug abuse, violence, playing with chainsaws, I mean of all the things to get upset about, you would think the cancel police would pick a better lyric to get upset by.

 

[Thaluikhain]

For those wondering, the Eminem lyric that got him “canceled” is “If she ever tries to fucking leave again, I’ma tie her to the bed and set this house on fire.”

Which if you think about it is insanely tame when you consider Em's liberal use of the word Fa**ot throughout his career. I mean he has said some much crazier shit in his songs, like killing his mom, drug abuse, violence, playing with chainsaws, I mean of all the things to get upset about, you would think the cancel police would pick a better lyric to get upset by.

While being repugnant has long been the method by which Eminem tries to remain relevant, that doesn't mean that that's tame. It's odd to single that one thing out, though.

And, comparing people complaining about Eminem to the witch hunts or murdering Caesar? If I can remember who Cory Taylor is, I must remember not to respect them.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I saw this article this morning, because apparently people are trying to cancel Eminem based off a song lyric from "Love the Way You Lie". A song released 11 years ago. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/corey-taylor-speaks-against-cancel-234949602.html

Anyway in the article the lead singer of Slipknot spoke out against cancel culture, liking it to the Salem Witch Trails (which is a little extreme, but interestingly on point at the same time)

Corey Taylor (Slipknot) says, "

"I was just reading about how Gen Z is trying to cancel Eminem because of one line that was in a Rihanna song that he did with her. And I’m just like ‘Is that where we are right now?’ I mean, at this point, you’re talking about the Salem witch trials. You’re talking about America in the ’20s where the KKK was like a political force. You’re talking about complete condemnation without context or any rationalization for an action like that.

“To me, that’s the most dangerous — when the mob decides that you’re gone. I mean, that is Caesar at the Colosseum, for God’s sake. That’s when it’s dangerous. The level of censorship that we’re starting to see — and I’m not saying that certain things haven’t been said that easily offend people. However, the flip side of that is that you can’t even make a joke anymore, even in the cleanest of situations. I mean, they completely turn on you. And there’s not one hint of satire, no hint of irony — it’s just all outrage.”

For those wondering, the Eminem lyric that got him “canceled” is “If she ever tries to fucking leave again, I’ma tie her to the bed and set this house on fire.”

Which if you think about it is insanely tame when you consider Em's liberal use of the word Fa**ot throughout his career. I mean he has said some much crazier shit in his songs, like killing his mom, drug abuse, violence, playing with chainsaws, I mean of all the things to get upset about, you would think the cancel police would pick a better lyric to get upset by.

Ha. It’s probably because of the violence against women thing, and it’s from a song that actually was deemed acceptable enough for FM radio (where whenever I heard it, only the F-bomb was censored out). Funny how they only now are bothered by it though. Or not, if we’re going by the rationale of the more recent Me-too phenomenon emboldening anyone who’s ever been offended by something.

The larger issue is it seems to have turned into a runaway train, like Taylor implied.

 

[CriticalGaming]

While being repugnant has long been the method by which Eminem tries to remain relevant, that doesn't mean that that's tame. It's odd to single that one thing out, though.

And, comparing people complaining about Eminem to the witch hunts or murdering Caesar? If I can remember who Cory Taylor is, I must remember not to respect them.

I imagine there isn't a lot of people you respect based on how easily it is for you to deny respect.

While the metaphor is extreme, it was extreme on purpose to hammer the point. But based on your comment you would likely be on the side of purging a song that's over a decade old just because you can. So that's an indictment upon you then isn't it?

Ha. It’s probably because of the violence against women thing, and it’s from a song that actually was deemed acceptable enough for FM radio (where whenever I heard it, only the F-bomb was censored out). Funny how they only now are bothered by it though. Or not, if we’re going by the rationale of the more recent Me-too phenomenon emboldening anyone who’s ever been offended by something.

The larger issue is it seems to have turned into a runaway train, like Taylor implied.

Yeah I guess, but it's a proclamation of uncontrollable love. If that lyric deserves to be edited out of the song for the rest of history, then we should also burn all copies of the book Misery by Stephen King, and while we're at it I just we'll just delete the movie from history and of course we have to make Kathy Bates return her best Actress Oscar for playing such a role.

Oh can we cancel Jeff Goldblum for playing a rapist? How about Silence of the Lambs since Buffalo Bill was skinning woman and wearing them like coats, "Would you cancel me? I'd Cancel me."

Come the fuck on with this shit. It's art and it's insane that any depiction of anything that these twitter fairies don't like must be purged. Thus effective preventing movies from being made, comedy from happening, in fact I guess we should all just sit in our rooms and stop trying to create anything because someone might be offended by it.

 

[Silvanus]

Are they being criticized for the elements though, or are the elements incidental?

That's precisely my point. Dwarvenhobble seems to be claiming that you can't criticise games/movies/shows that have progressive stuff in them at all, even if the criticism is nothing to do with that. Which is nonsense.

On the subject, I'm not sure how much, if any criticism a game should receive because of their politics in of themselves. For instance, flipping to the other side, I find the politics of CoD fairly offputting. But I don't think it's fair to say that CoD is bad/good because of them (how well it explores its ideas is another matter).

Storytelling & plot are valid grounds for criticism, and the political stances a game takes are a part of that. It's perfectly valid to criticise the plot of a game if it makes a crass/ shitty political argument (4 Days in Fallujah is a good current example).

My point is that the mere presence of characters from minority groups is not some great "political point", but status-quo warriors seem to think it is. Christ, I'm sick of people talking about the mere presence of somebody like me existing in a game is an objectionable political statement.

Maybe not in those exact words, but it comes close in areas - take the Ghostbusters 2016 fiasco for instance. Yes, a lot of criticism was pretty sexist, but there's plenty of reasons to criticize it beyond that, even if I liked it myself. If your defence is "if you dislike X, you're (insert term here), then that isn't really a rebuttal.

Sure. I thought the 2016 Ghostbusters film was a pretty forgettable rehash. Criticise the lack of imagination or the writing, and we're golden. Criticise the fact they're women, and we're not golden. And disguise a gripe about the latter as a gripe about the former, and we're not golden either.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I imagine there isn't a lot of people you respect based on how easily it is for you to deny respect.

While the metaphor is extreme, it was extreme on purpose to hammer the point. But based on your comment you would likely be on the side of purging a song that's over a decade old just because you can. So that's an indictment upon you then isn't it?



Yeah I guess, but it's a proclamation of uncontrollable love. If that lyric deserves to be edited out of the song for the rest of history, then we should also burn all copies of the book Misery by Stephen King, and while we're at it I just we'll just delete the movie from history and of course we have to make Kathy Bates return her best Actress Oscar for playing such a role.

Oh can we cancel Jeff Goldblum for playing a rapist? How about Silence of the Lambs since Buffalo Bill was skinning woman and wearing them like coats, "Would you cancel me? I'd Cancel me."

Come the fuck on with this shit. It's art and it's insane that any depiction of anything that these twitter fairies don't like must be purged. Thus effective preventing movies from being made, comedy from happening, in fact I guess we should all just sit in our rooms and stop trying to create anything because someone might be offended by it.

Thinking of how they’d replace that line...hmm...

If she ever tries to run or leave again, Ima scold her like her mom or like I’m Mrs Doubtfire!

Also wondering if the older comics’ heads must be spinning at the prospect of creating a modern day act that their original audiences would find worthy of their time. Chappelle had a couple decent Netflix specials recently though, poking fun at it a bit.