Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Full Review (spoilers)

CriticalGaming

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Well as you said, part of Cloud's delusion in the original is his imagined relationship with Sephiroth. He is imagining something that isn't mutual and was never truly there. Then in the Remake-- Sephiroth is obsessed with him too, projecting into his mind, trying to convince him to join him defying fate. What was originally a delusion has been retroactively validated
To be fair the Remake has said that they are basing these games on the whole FF7 compilation, not just the original game. That's why they've made big efforts to push the other media onto people, like remastering Crisis Core, putting Advent Children back in theaters, etc. One thing that the compilation established is that Sephiroth's power over the lifestream comes from people remembering him. Specifically Cloud, and thus in order to truly defeat Sephiroth one must forget about him. And the way you prevent that from happening is cockteasing each other constantly.

And let's take a look at Remake itself, in the OG game you shouldn't even know what Sephiroth looks like, let alone know anything about him at all really. In fact in the OG game can you tell me anything about Sephiroth other than he was a solider that went crazy? Who was he before that? What are his motivations afterward? Nothing. There is nothing about him because he is nothing, Sephiroth is a vessel not a character not anything except a puppet used by Jenova who effectively embodies him.

In the Remake, he's at least a character, he has a personal link to Cloud which we don't really know until Rebirth and the Kalm flashback, but even then we still don't know what's what. However this time he at least has agency and his own motivations. Jenova gets side-lined because Jenova is just a monsterous force of chaos without rhyme, reason, or motivation. That motivation is given to Sephiroth and his own delusions in thinking he can take Jenova's place.

Even still all these changes in motivations and characterizations don't change what happens in the original game. You still travel from place to place chasing the black robed folks, hunt ultimately for the temple of the ancients, have the keystone stolen, the temple collapses, Cloud threatens Aerith for the Black Materia, Aerith goes off to confront Sephiroth alone and dies. All happens that is expected to happen. Except Rocket Town..

Speaking of which Cid is a totally different person than the original game with a completely different background and story and not one person has said a fucking thing about that.
 

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To be fair the Remake has said that they are basing these games on the whole FF7 compilation, not just the original game. That's why they've made big efforts to push the other media onto people, like remastering Crisis Core, putting Advent Children back in theaters, etc. One thing that the compilation established is that Sephiroth's power over the lifestream comes from people remembering him. Specifically Cloud, and thus in order to truly defeat Sephiroth one must forget about him. And the way you prevent that from happening is cockteasing each other constantly.
Yeah, but that's very very very silly, and is still a major divergence from the OG in characterisation.

To be clear, though: i have an even bigger bone to pick with Crisis Core, DoC, and Advent Children in terms of worsening or devaluing the lore/themes. Fucking Genesis. Fucking apples. The clichéd anime rewrite started back then.

And let's take a look at Remake itself, in the OG game you shouldn't even know what Sephiroth looks like, let alone know anything about him at all really. In fact in the OG game can you tell me anything about Sephiroth other than he was a solider that went crazy? Who was he before that? What are his motivations afterward? Nothing. There is nothing about him because he is nothing, Sephiroth is a vessel not a character not anything except a puppet used by Jenova who effectively embodies him.

In the Remake, he's at least a character, he has a personal link to Cloud which we don't really know until Rebirth and the Kalm flashback, but even then we still don't know what's what. However this time he at least has agency and his own motivations. Jenova gets side-lined because Jenova is just a monsterous force of chaos without rhyme, reason, or motivation. That motivation is given to Sephiroth and his own delusions in thinking he can take Jenova's place.
Actually yes, I can tell you more than that about OG Sephiroth from memory. He was twisted by Hojo telling him his mother was Jenova, which he took more literally than Hojo had meant it. His "go crazy" moment is driven in part by discovering the truth of his creation (and thus the abusive nature of Shinra towards the SOLDIERS, who he now views as pawns), and in part by a new belief that he is part of something bigger, knowing now that he is the strongest carrier for the alien lifeform-- he still has emotional baggage from regarding this creature as his mother, and cannot shed it. His motivation from then on is (in his mind) the punishment of the world that abused him and a form of ascension to fulfil a destiny he imagines for himself, the all-powerful heir of Jenova's power. But this too is delusion: his aim is identical to what Jenova attempted thousands of years ago, resulting in planetary destruction, suggesting he is still (wittingly or unwittingly) following her plan.

This is, to me, a cool ass story. The introduction of anime tropes, and the sidelining of the alien element in favour of the bishonen fan-bait, lessens it IMO.

Even still all these changes in motivations and characterizations don't change what happens in the original game. You still travel from place to place chasing the black robed folks, hunt ultimately for the temple of the ancients, have the keystone stolen, the temple collapses, Cloud threatens Aerith for the Black Materia, Aerith goes off to confront Sephiroth alone and dies. All happens that is expected to happen. Except Rocket Town..
Shifting responsibility for events from Jenova to Sephiroth is a major recontextualisation of events, even if they still occur. And ghosts trying to enforce fate, and divergences living on in a multiverse, are enormous narrative changes.
 
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dscross

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I probably won't get a chance to play it unless I fork out for a PS5 (I wouldn't pay full price for it anyway though). I enjoyed remake where it stuck to the original but I didn't like where they were going with the whispers and the multiple timelines tbh. Even though I hear they try to explain it, they are overcomplicating an already complicated premise. Seems a bit Kingdom Hearts.

I get that some people don't seem to mind that. But I just don't get why they didn't stick to the normal story. No-one would have minded. They ruined the whole point of it thematically for me.

Open world sounds moderately fun, although a bit too Ubisoft-esk.
 
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dscross

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After reading CriticalGaming's review of the games and since my last post in this thread, I've been thinking about what problem I have with these games and trying to put it into words. Since I am not planning to get a PS5, I haven't played the 2nd one yet, although I've watched a lot of the footage. Therefore, this isn't really about gameplay, but about the story.

I think that while Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth offer a visually stunning and complex expansion of the original game’s universe, they compromise the directness and coherence of the original themes, replacing a poignant narrative about acceptance and resistance with a less focused exploration of metaphysical possibilities. This not only changes the narrative's impact but undermines the thematic essence that has made Final Fantasy VII resonate so deeply with its audience for decades.

1. Loss of Narrative Simplicity and Focus

The original Final Fantasy VII presented its themes through a direct, focused narrative. The journey of Cloud and his companions was a clear-cut story of resistance against a corporate power, personal discovery, and dealing with loss (notably Aerith’s death) in a way that was both tragic and irreversible. This simplicity lent the game a certain narrative purity; the stakes were understandable, and the themes of sacrifice and environmental degradation were stark and poignant. In contrast, the Remake introduces complex alternate timelines and metaphysical elements that can dilute this clarity.

By allowing for the possibility of changing key events (like Aerith’s fate), the game shifts from a narrative about accepting loss and the fight against inevitable decay (represented by the Planet’s deterioration) to one where destiny is negotiable and mutable. This fundamentally changes the thematic underpinning from fatalism and the human condition to a more fantastical narrative where consequences can be undone, thereby weakening the original’s thematic impact on mortality and inevitability.

2. Dilution of Central Themes with Expanded Plot Devices

The original game’s environmental and anti-corporate messages are clear and direct, embodied in the struggle against Shinra, whose exploitation of the planet's life force, Mako, is a straightforward metaphor for environmental degradation.

In the Remake and Rebirth, while these themes are still present, they are overshadowed by more complex metaphysical discussions about the nature of the lifestream, alternate realities, and potential timelines. These new elements can feel like distractions or even escapism from the more grounded, urgent environmental message of the original.

3. Character Arcs and Development

The character development in the original was tightly interwoven with the game's themes. Each character’s growth and struggles were reflective of broader thematic questions about identity, purpose, and resistance. With the introduction of new narrative arcs and potential futures in the Remake series, characters might seem less tethered to the original themes. For example, if Cloud can potentially save Aerith, does that not alter the profound impact her death has on his development and on the player's experience of loss and helplessness?

4. The Role of Fate and Agency

The Remake’s exploration of fate and the ability to alter it through extraordinary means introduces a theme more akin to those found in Kingdom Hearts—another Square Enix franchise known for its complex and often convoluted exploration of similar concepts. This shift can be seen as a move away from the more straightforward, albeit bleak, acceptance of personal and collective destiny that gave the original its emotional weight.

5. Overall Tone and Message

The shift in tone from a gritty, neo-noir fantasy to a more expansive metaphysical epic changes the way themes are felt and understood. The original game’s more somber and reflective atmosphere, which deeply immersed players in its world’s imminent ecological and existential crises, contrasts with the more action-oriented and fantastical narrative of the Remake.

Feel free to argue back as to why I'm wrong but I wanted to get my thoughts out there.
 

CriticalGaming

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@dscross I agree with you in some respects. The OG game was straightforward and I guess more clear on it's themes and characters. However storytelling and technological limitations are no longer there to hold back and limit the presentation of themes and characters. Remake/Rebirths complexity is akin to the way a lot of Japanese writers tell their stories. And one of the big aspects you have to consider when looking at these new games is that when the OG came out, the characters and universe were limited strictly to that one game, which for better or worse is no longer the case. Additionally you have to consider that these characters are no longer mysteries to players, many of them are fundamental gaming icons bigger than the game they embody.

With modern context, I do not believe a 1-to-1 retelling of the OG would work and much of the impact would be lost because it's all the same shit with a new coat of paint. I'm struggling to think of a single Remake made today that changes nothing or expands on nothing. But the Resident Evil games change significant things, Dead Space added a whole breath of content and made the main character talk. As a result FF7's Remake was always going to change things, because it had to, and most of what's changed is simple expansion.

However you are going to run into problems when you give characters more life. Namely in that they don't call into question things that they should, like when Cloud starts going looney they have to ignore it and act out of character in order to keep that plot point going forward when with Barret's new expanded personality specifically he would slap the shit outta Cloud and scream at him "What the fuck is your problem man!?" But he doesn't, and it jarred even me out of some of the story towards the end of the game, but you also have to consider that Barret respects Tifa and if Tifa is acting like she doesn't want to press things then Barret would stay quiet for her sake. And that's just an example.

Cloud had a big problem in the original game in which he rapidly flip flops in and out of sanity on a dime and not only does nobody question him about it, he doesn't he realize it exists. The writing had to cut a lot of corners for any number of reasons, but those same corners can't be cut with a fully voice acted modern game because they are too jarring.

I knew from the beginning of this project's announcement that we were not getting a strict 1-to-1 remake, it wasn't possible for all sorts of reasons. Even expanding things and character moments fundamentally fuck up the original's story because the party's bonds with each other were pretty hollow at best. Let alone all the new changes to the story which I still argue are not nearly as vast as people make it out to be. And as a huge fan of the OG game i really enjoy the changes because it let's FF7, my favorite game of all time, feel new again. And whatever better feeling can you have than being able to play your favorite game all over again and not know what's going to happen, so you get to fall in love with it all once again. It's awesome.

I feel like a lot of people pointing at the things that Remake changes have missed the point of the Remake in the first place, namely because of the word "remake" which is not even like the whole title.

There is one thing that will forever hold true though, if people prefer the way the OG did things then that game is still there and readily available for you to play and enjoy. I play it at least once a year because it is still very good and fun to run through.
 
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After reading CriticalGaming's review of the games and since my last post in this thread, I've been thinking about what problem I have with these games and trying to put it into words. Since I am not planning to get a PS5, I haven't played the 2nd one yet, although I've watched a lot of the footage. Therefore, this isn't really about gameplay, but about the story.

I think that while Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth offer a visually stunning and complex expansion of the original game’s universe, they compromise the directness and coherence of the original themes, replacing a poignant narrative about acceptance and resistance with a less focused exploration of metaphysical possibilities. This not only changes the narrative's impact but undermines the thematic essence that has made Final Fantasy VII resonate so deeply with its audience for decades.

1. Loss of Narrative Simplicity and Focus

The original Final Fantasy VII presented its themes through a direct, focused narrative. The journey of Cloud and his companions was a clear-cut story of resistance against a corporate power, personal discovery, and dealing with loss (notably Aerith’s death) in a way that was both tragic and irreversible. This simplicity lent the game a certain narrative purity; the stakes were understandable, and the themes of sacrifice and environmental degradation were stark and poignant. In contrast, the Remake introduces complex alternate timelines and metaphysical elements that can dilute this clarity.

By allowing for the possibility of changing key events (like Aerith’s fate), the game shifts from a narrative about accepting loss and the fight against inevitable decay (represented by the Planet’s deterioration) to one where destiny is negotiable and mutable. This fundamentally changes the thematic underpinning from fatalism and the human condition to a more fantastical narrative where consequences can be undone, thereby weakening the original’s thematic impact on mortality and inevitability.

2. Dilution of Central Themes with Expanded Plot Devices

The original game’s environmental and anti-corporate messages are clear and direct, embodied in the struggle against Shinra, whose exploitation of the planet's life force, Mako, is a straightforward metaphor for environmental degradation.

In the Remake and Rebirth, while these themes are still present, they are overshadowed by more complex metaphysical discussions about the nature of the lifestream, alternate realities, and potential timelines. These new elements can feel like distractions or even escapism from the more grounded, urgent environmental message of the original.

3. Character Arcs and Development

The character development in the original was tightly interwoven with the game's themes. Each character’s growth and struggles were reflective of broader thematic questions about identity, purpose, and resistance. With the introduction of new narrative arcs and potential futures in the Remake series, characters might seem less tethered to the original themes. For example, if Cloud can potentially save Aerith, does that not alter the profound impact her death has on his development and on the player's experience of loss and helplessness?

4. The Role of Fate and Agency

The Remake’s exploration of fate and the ability to alter it through extraordinary means introduces a theme more akin to those found in Kingdom Hearts—another Square Enix franchise known for its complex and often convoluted exploration of similar concepts. This shift can be seen as a move away from the more straightforward, albeit bleak, acceptance of personal and collective destiny that gave the original its emotional weight.

5. Overall Tone and Message

The shift in tone from a gritty, neo-noir fantasy to a more expansive metaphysical epic changes the way themes are felt and understood. The original game’s more somber and reflective atmosphere, which deeply immersed players in its world’s imminent ecological and existential crises, contrasts with the more action-oriented and fantastical narrative of the Remake.

Feel free to argue back as to why I'm wrong but I wanted to get my thoughts out there.

This makes me think of this project more than anything as an embodiment of what the series has become. An augmentation of the Hail Mary that was the original game into a sprawling series of sequels and spinoffs where the “fantasy” is anything but “final”, lol.
 

CriticalGaming

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This makes me think of this project more than anything as an embodiment of what the series has become. An augmentation of the Hail Mary that was the original game into a sprawling series of sequels and spinoffs where the “fantasy” is anything but “final”, lol.
Probably not quite as nefarious as you just made it sound though. They could have filled with with MTX costumes and season passes to get new materia and shit.
 

meiam

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@dscross I agree with you in some respects. The OG game was straightforward and I guess more clear on it's themes and characters. However storytelling and technological limitations are no longer there to hold back and limit the presentation of themes and characters. Remake/Rebirths complexity is akin to the way a lot of Japanese writers tell their stories. And one of the big aspects you have to consider when looking at these new games is that when the OG came out, the characters and universe were limited strictly to that one game, which for better or worse is no longer the case. Additionally you have to consider that these characters are no longer mysteries to players, many of them are fundamental gaming icons bigger than the game they embody.

With modern context, I do not believe a 1-to-1 retelling of the OG would work and much of the impact would be lost because it's all the same shit with a new coat of paint. I'm struggling to think of a single Remake made today that changes nothing or expands on nothing. But the Resident Evil games change significant things, Dead Space added a whole breath of content and made the main character talk. As a result FF7's Remake was always going to change things, because it had to, and most of what's changed is simple expansion.

However you are going to run into problems when you give characters more life. Namely in that they don't call into question things that they should, like when Cloud starts going looney they have to ignore it and act out of character in order to keep that plot point going forward when with Barret's new expanded personality specifically he would slap the shit outta Cloud and scream at him "What the fuck is your problem man!?" But he doesn't, and it jarred even me out of some of the story towards the end of the game, but you also have to consider that Barret respects Tifa and if Tifa is acting like she doesn't want to press things then Barret would stay quiet for her sake. And that's just an example.

Cloud had a big problem in the original game in which he rapidly flip flops in and out of sanity on a dime and not only does nobody question him about it, he doesn't he realize it exists. The writing had to cut a lot of corners for any number of reasons, but those same corners can't be cut with a fully voice acted modern game because they are too jarring.

I knew from the beginning of this project's announcement that we were not getting a strict 1-to-1 remake, it wasn't possible for all sorts of reasons. Even expanding things and character moments fundamentally fuck up the original's story because the party's bonds with each other were pretty hollow at best. Let alone all the new changes to the story which I still argue are not nearly as vast as people make it out to be. And as a huge fan of the OG game i really enjoy the changes because it let's FF7, my favorite game of all time, feel new again. And whatever better feeling can you have than being able to play your favorite game all over again and not know what's going to happen, so you get to fall in love with it all once again. It's awesome.

I feel like a lot of people pointing at the things that Remake changes have missed the point of the Remake in the first place, namely because of the word "remake" which is not even like the whole title.

There is one thing that will forever hold true though, if people prefer the way the OG did things then that game is still there and readily available for you to play and enjoy. I play it at least once a year because it is still very good and fun to run through.
There's changing a story in line with the original and there's throwing random non sense and trying to be both the same and different at once while going against many of the main theme.

For example, in remake you briefly go to the top plate, this is a brand new section that wasn't in the original. This could have been en excellent opportunity to explore what people on the top think of Shinra. Are they happy that they brought jobs and prosperity? Or maybe they chafe at it being more powerful than the nearly non existent state? Who knows, this section is really short and only really exist as an excuse to have a pseudo date with Jessie, because the OG had only two pin up girl and that just wasn't enough so one more was desperately needed.

Another example, in the OG, at the end of the tower section you get this really anticlimactic confrontation with Rufus. Despite being the boss quite literally at the end of the road, he's just a character that was introduce to us in the same scene we fight against him. Even more strangely, Cloud makes a big deal out of having a 1v1 against him, as if it was somehow personal for him. I remember as a kid thinking it would eventually be reveal that Cloud had some sort of pass experience with Rufus (either made up or real and suppress) that would explain why he was so adamant on taking him on alone. But no, nothing happen, Rufus is actually quite insignificant to the story and you never even fight against him, a high letdown for the caper to the end of great sequence. That was prime material for the remake to change, either making Rufus more important early on (maybe by having him get the upper hand on Cloud at an earlier point, maybe like causing him to fall after the second make bombing) or by changing the fight at the end of the tower, maybe having someone more significant than Rufus. But the remake does none of this, its still boring Rufus. I would have gladly traded all the alternate reality/fate nonsense for some actual expansion of the story in this area (and many others like it).
 
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CriticalGaming

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But the remake does none of this, its still boring Rufus.
Except he is significantly expanded on in Rebirth. Those things you suggested are happening they are just happening later. In fact Shinra is being made to be far more important to the story overall in the Remakes because they are actually doing things and making plans, whereas in the OG the Turks just show up sometimes. So what you are asking for is happening.

Additionally in Remake it's shown that most of the people who work for Shinra actually live in the slums, and the few people living upper plate life are shown during the HQ infiltration. There are quite a few instances where the game tries to show that Shinra employees are just trying to do their jobs for the most part and they aren't all bad people trying to hunt a promised land or whatever. People in the company are even complete distraught of the plate fall and the "evil" parts of Shinra actively cover up and hide the real deeds of the company from the employees for the most part.

I see where you are coming from, but you also have to remember that we aren't dealing with the whole picture yet. One more game to go and plenty of opportunities to continue building the characters and story.
 
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dscross

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@dscross I agree with you in some respects. The OG game was straightforward and I guess more clear on it's themes and characters. However storytelling and technological limitations are no longer there to hold back and limit the presentation of themes and characters. Remake/Rebirths complexity is akin to the way a lot of Japanese writers tell their stories. And one of the big aspects you have to consider when looking at these new games is that when the OG came out, the characters and universe were limited strictly to that one game, which for better or worse is no longer the case. Additionally you have to consider that these characters are no longer mysteries to players, many of them are fundamental gaming icons bigger than the game they embody.

With modern context, I do not believe a 1-to-1 retelling of the OG would work and much of the impact would be lost because it's all the same shit with a new coat of paint. I'm struggling to think of a single Remake made today that changes nothing or expands on nothing. But the Resident Evil games change significant things, Dead Space added a whole breath of content and made the main character talk. As a result FF7's Remake was always going to change things, because it had to, and most of what's changed is simple expansion.

However you are going to run into problems when you give characters more life. Namely in that they don't call into question things that they should, like when Cloud starts going looney they have to ignore it and act out of character in order to keep that plot point going forward when with Barret's new expanded personality specifically he would slap the shit outta Cloud and scream at him "What the fuck is your problem man!?" But he doesn't, and it jarred even me out of some of the story towards the end of the game, but you also have to consider that Barret respects Tifa and if Tifa is acting like she doesn't want to press things then Barret would stay quiet for her sake. And that's just an example.

Cloud had a big problem in the original game in which he rapidly flip flops in and out of sanity on a dime and not only does nobody question him about it, he doesn't he realize it exists. The writing had to cut a lot of corners for any number of reasons, but those same corners can't be cut with a fully voice acted modern game because they are too jarring.

I knew from the beginning of this project's announcement that we were not getting a strict 1-to-1 remake, it wasn't possible for all sorts of reasons. Even expanding things and character moments fundamentally fuck up the original's story because the party's bonds with each other were pretty hollow at best. Let alone all the new changes to the story which I still argue are not nearly as vast as people make it out to be. And as a huge fan of the OG game i really enjoy the changes because it let's FF7, my favorite game of all time, feel new again. And whatever better feeling can you have than being able to play your favorite game all over again and not know what's going to happen, so you get to fall in love with it all once again. It's awesome.

I feel like a lot of people pointing at the things that Remake changes have missed the point of the Remake in the first place, namely because of the word "remake" which is not even like the whole title.

There is one thing that will forever hold true though, if people prefer the way the OG did things then that game is still there and readily available for you to play and enjoy. I play it at least once a year because it is still very good and fun to run through.
While technological advancements and a desire to innovate are understandable reasons for changing a game’s narrative and structure, these should not come at the cost of the thematic coherence and emotional impact that made the original beloved.

While Remake and Rebirth offer exciting new content, the extent to which they shift fundamental story elements and character arcs can be seen as undermining rather than enhancing the original themes.

For those who appreciate the original for its thematic depth and narrative focus, the changes might not represent an improvement but a departure from what made Final Fantasy VII resonate so powerfully in the first place.

I'll just break this down a little bit...

1. While it’s true that technological advancements have removed many limitations that previously restricted storytelling, this doesn’t inherently mean that a more complex story is better. The simplicity and directness of the original were not merely due to technological constraints but were artistic choices that served the game's themes effectively.

The narrative's straightforwardness allowed players to deeply connect with the environmental and socio-economic themes without the distraction of convoluted plot mechanisms like alternate timelines. These themes resonate precisely because of their direct presentation, not despite it.

2. The argument that the characters are now iconic and thus cannot be re-explored in the same context overlooks the value of narrative consistency and thematic integrity.

Even iconic characters can be reintroduced in new contexts without altering the fundamental aspects of their personalities or the story’s core messages.

By changing key aspects of characters' behaviours or fates, the Remake risks undermining the very traits that made these characters iconic.

For example, the potential for altering Aerith’s fate in the Remake series might mitigate the impact of her original story arc, which was central to the game's exploration of loss and irreversible consequences.

3. While giving characters "more life" is generally a positive development, doing so at the expense of consistency within their established personalities can be jarring.

For instance, expanding Barret’s personality is beneficial, but it needs to remain true to his core motivations and behavioural patterns. If expansions to character development lead to inconsistencies that even fans notice as jarring, it suggests that these expansions are not seamlessly integrated but rather forced, potentially at the expense of the original narrative flow and believability.

4. You mention the necessity of changes to make the game feel fresh and exciting, which is a valid point. However, it’s crucial to differentiate between changes that serve to enhance and those that might detract from the original game’s essence.

The argument that the Remake needed to change things “because it had to” does not address whether these changes respect and preserve the core themes or dilute them under the guise of innovation.

5. The pleasure of rediscovering a favourite game with new twists is understandable and valid for many. However, this approach assumes that the primary value of the Remake is to surprise and offer novelty, rather than to respect and expand upon the original game's thematic depth in a way that complements its legacy.
 
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CriticalGaming

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For example, the potential for altering Aerith’s fate in the Remake series might mitigate the impact of her original story arc, which was central to the game's exploration of loss and irreversible consequences.
If has been a lifelong dream of players to somehow keep Aerith alive. So the Remake toyed the players with that potential possibility as sort of a nod to the players like, "Oh are you gonna be able to do it this time?"

But no she is dead.

The problem is that meta knowledge is too powerful of a thing. The original was created in a vacuum that didnt have fan expectations for the characters and their arcs or personalities. The Remake doesnt get to have that luxury, everyone knows to some degree who these characters are and what happens to them. So developers have no choice but to play with that knowledge and imo that is a big reason behind the Plot Ghosts, they let the developers fuck with players and making people ask questions where they otherwise wouldn't if this was a 1 to 1 remake.

Take a look on Youtube and you will find hours worth of people theorycrafting and analyzing everything in the games story which wouldn't happen if the game was just a straight remake.

People have a right to have wanted a straight remake but quite honestly i think what we got instead was way better by sheer virtue of being able to talk about the games in such a way.
 

meiam

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Except he is significantly expanded on in Rebirth. Those things you suggested are happening they are just happening later. In fact Shinra is being made to be far more important to the story overall in the Remakes because they are actually doing things and making plans, whereas in the OG the Turks just show up sometimes. So what you are asking for is happening.
You don't hype a boss after you fought him, you do it before.
 

CriticalGaming

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You don't hype a boss after you fought him, you do it before.
I mean was he hyped in the OG? He just rambles and then you fight and never deal with him again.

In Rebirth you fight him again. So i mean having him be a reoccurring boss is far more threatening than a 1 and done isnt it?
 

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If has been a lifelong dream of players to somehow keep Aerith alive. So the Remake toyed the players with that potential possibility as sort of a nod to the players like, "Oh are you gonna be able to do it this time?"

But no she is dead.

The problem is that meta knowledge is too powerful of a thing. The original was created in a vacuum that didnt have fan expectations for the characters and their arcs or personalities. The Remake doesnt get to have that luxury, everyone knows to some degree who these characters are and what happens to them. So developers have no choice but to play with that knowledge and imo that is a big reason behind the Plot Ghosts, they let the developers fuck with players and making people ask questions where they otherwise wouldn't if this was a 1 to 1 remake.

Take a look on Youtube and you will find hours worth of people theorycrafting and analyzing everything in the games story which wouldn't happen if the game was just a straight remake.

People have a right to have wanted a straight remake but quite honestly i think what we got instead was way better by sheer virtue of being able to talk about the games in such a way.
Although it aims to innovate and pay homage to the fans' desires, there is a fine line between effectively using fan expectations to enhance the story and exploiting these expectations in a way that might ultimately lead to disappointment.

Preserving the core emotional experiences of the original Final Fantasy VII could be as valuable, if not more so, than radically altering its narrative to surprise players.

1. While the idea of potentially changing Aerith's fate might seem like a respectful nod to fans' wishes, it could also be seen as a manipulative tactic.

By playing with fan expectations without intending to alter the outcome significantly, the developers risk frustrating players who may feel misled.

This could detract from the genuine emotional engagement with the story, as players might feel their choices and hopes are ultimately inconsequential.

2. The original game was impactful precisely because of its unchangeable, scripted events, which included Aerith's death.

This moment is pivotal to the game’s emotional and narrative arc. Introducing the possibility of altering this event might diminish its significance, making the storyline feel less compelling or meaningful.

The integrity of the original narrative might be better honoured by preserving its key events, even in a remake.

3. While it's true that the remake doesn't have the luxury of being created in a vacuum and must contend with players' pre-existing knowledge, this doesn't necessarily justify using this meta-knowledge to create red herrings or false hopes.

Effective storytelling in a remake can still be achieved by deepening character development and expanding on the world-building without altering the core plot points that fans originally connected with.

4. Although extensive fan theorising and discussion can indeed enrich the community's engagement with the game, there is value in narrative clarity and coherence.

If the storytelling becomes overly convoluted with multiple timelines and 'what if' scenarios, it distracts from the thematic depth and character arcs established in the original game.

A balance needs to be struck between introducing new elements and maintaining the clear, impactful storytelling that fans admired in the original.
 
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