What has that got to do with the meaning of the word "addiction"?veloper said:
Seriously, sort out your own point before attacking others.
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- Thread starter Mark J Kline
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Seriously, sort out your own point before attacking others.
2 and 2 should've been easy enough to follow but I'll explain it in really easy words:Cartographer said:
Consider the following two sentences:
1 cocaine is addictive, and
2 videogames are addictive.
If both are true, then the word "addictive" has no meaning. Meaningless definitions are wrong by default.
Regular coke users cannot stop if they want to. Regular gamers can; hell almost every kid plays games nowadays and almost everyone will grow bored after playing the same game too much.
There is just no fucking comparison to coke, heroin or even alcohol.
Your point (and I use the term loosely) seems to ignore psychologically addictive activities; gambling being the prime example. It is universally recognised throughout the medical profession that gambling addiction exists, yet gambling, unlike coke, has no addictive chemicals, ingredients etc. despite this, there are a great many people addicted to it.veloper said:
Fundamentally, you appear to be operating from a flawed position. Addiction refers to the state of being unable to cease a habit or practice, be it due to some chemical dependency OR due to a psychological one. Gaming, like gambling, falls into the latter category. Cocaine falls into the former.
(Nice language in your post BTW, great way of reinforcing my opinion of you)
Coke IS addictive. Alcohol not so much. Games, out of the question.DayDark said:
Alcohol is questionable, since almost everyone drinks it, while only a few become alcoholics, but alcoholics do depend on the substance, unlike gamers.
The obsessed gamer gets his sensations from doing something he enjoys doing. It is bio chemistry within the brain itself, which always occurs for every sensation we're capable of feeling.
Every activity people do and enjoy causes chemicals to be released by the brain that make us feel good and I'm NOT suggesting to apply the label addictive to everything from sports to chess to everything.
Gambling is an obsession, not an addiction. Nor do I consider workaholics, addicted. It's a misnomer.Cartographer said:
Some people will get obsessed with anything. Most people won't.
It's hard to stop with cocaine. Gaming, gambling isn't anywhere near as bad.
By linking gaming to addiction you're underestimating the danger of real drugs.
IMHO, the most important part of this article was where Dr Mark spoke explicitly about how additiction is typified by the maintenance of a healthy and controlled relationship with whatever substance is involved.
That is why I play games with a timer/alarm clock. Otherwise it is so easy to just disappear.
That is why I play games with a timer/alarm clock. Otherwise it is so easy to just disappear.
My question is if you turn to games instead of the real world and ur happy than wats wrong wit that?
Except, and this is the point you seem to fail at grasping, your opinion on the matter of what constitutes an addiction is completely irrelevant. It is a well defined medical term that does incorporate psychological compulsions.veloper said:
The core of your argument appears to be you taking issue with the accepted definition of a word, I'm sorry but that's just puerile. Addiction incorporates psychological compulsions whether you agree with it or not.
Furthermore, your attempt to qualify gambling as an obsession rather than an addiction is not supported by medical science. By all means, point to a peer reviewed article in a medical journal (or equivalent) that proves you right, I'll gladly read it. Otherwise, the Doctor gets to be believed when it comes to medicine.
First of all, great article! I look forward to reading more from Dr. Mark, and I am impressed by his ability to stay neutral and not pander to his audience like so many experts brought into the media.
Some of these comments, though...sheesh. I don't understand why people try to argue with current, clinical, evidence-based research by using anecdotes and personal "definitions." I just finished my psych rotation in my BSN program, and the professor made it very clear that drug addiction, gambling addiction, exercise addiction, internet addiction, etc. are the SAME THING from a neurological standpoint.
Some of these comments, though...sheesh. I don't understand why people try to argue with current, clinical, evidence-based research by using anecdotes and personal "definitions." I just finished my psych rotation in my BSN program, and the professor made it very clear that drug addiction, gambling addiction, exercise addiction, internet addiction, etc. are the SAME THING from a neurological standpoint.
I'd love to see what the results of studying The Sims would be from this man. It's rare to see a clear-headed individual take a sharp look at the positives and negatives of gaming, and he makes decent points. Like he said though, gaming is a pleasurable activity... I think we all can agree on that. Anything that is pleasurable can become an addiction; sucking one's thumb as a nervous habit outside of childhood, for instance. Therefore, enjoying video games CAN be an addiction. The only thing that matters is that we maintain the ability to keep it as passive entertainment.
The negative press surrounding video games understands it as "everyone who plays video games will get addicted" when it should really be, "some people who play video games with the particular mental chemistry that predisposes them towards getting hooked on addictive activities can get addicted".
I for one know that I am genetically predisposed towards becoming addicted which is why I've stayed away from drugs, alchohol, smoking etc. because I realize that those activities can become life-interrupting for me very easily. I've been closely monitoring my internet and gaming time to make sure I don't neglect important real-life activities (mind you, right now my internet use is doing so). I know I'm not the only one. In the end, it's my responsibility, not the game's.
The negative press surrounding video games understands it as "everyone who plays video games will get addicted" when it should really be, "some people who play video games with the particular mental chemistry that predisposes them towards getting hooked on addictive activities can get addicted".
I for one know that I am genetically predisposed towards becoming addicted which is why I've stayed away from drugs, alchohol, smoking etc. because I realize that those activities can become life-interrupting for me very easily. I've been closely monitoring my internet and gaming time to make sure I don't neglect important real-life activities (mind you, right now my internet use is doing so). I know I'm not the only one. In the end, it's my responsibility, not the game's.
In terms of getting "stashes" to hold off (or give into) cravings when the main source has been cut off... I know a lot of younger gamers who get really into their games to the point of ignoring their families and friends, and they will use hand-held games when they can't use the computer or the TV for games. They'll stash their easily hidden hand-held systems in case they're removed from their main source through grounding or visiting places without easily accessible stimuli. Does that count for what you're talking about?The_root_of_all_evil said:
Couldn't you say in terms of gaining support from people online that some people (such as myself) can't always get in our real-life relationships, that someone can become addicted (that scary and telling word) from just that, let alone the constant drive to become better and stronger? I know that working out at the gym to excess for this reason can become addictive to some, and gaming doesn't have the physical duress to hold you back since the only workout is to muscles from anger or stress at the in-game actions.
Well, this is what makes it an interesting case. The alcoholic/dope-fiend etc. will have a preferred medium, so as a "gamer", there should be a preferred medium and a fall-back medium. But if you look at a "WoW addict" - not even a different server will do. Give a "WoW addict" the ability to go on Everquest and there's no addiction there, so it can't be a gaming addiction, rather an addiction to a very specific form of behaviour - which is usually classed as OCD.PrototypeC said:
But that's the case I deal with later. There's a wide number of people whose entire life revolves around their work - as the stresses of their work imbue a certain mindset. You watch any retailer (or parent) around Xmas, and they devolve into that behaviour. They can only gain "sustenance" by going through those specific "addictions". Look at Valentine's Day. There's a whole industry built around the "addiction" to "being in love", including overdosing, cold turkey, secret stashes and OCD.
What I'm saying is that "gaming addiction" is actually a recognised form of normality to most gamers, and OCD focussing on gaming to those that need help. Treating it as an addiction (weening) will actually treat a symptom rather than a cause, and that's when it can re-focus on something a lot more deadly.
I spend probably 40 hours in front of the monitor a week, (my Steam score can vouch for that) but I still manage to hold down a job, be a reasonably pleasant person, not blow all my money and have entire weeks away from it. This is "unnatural" compared to the guys who, at the moment, are imbibing huge quantities of alcohol, painting their faces, going round in primary coloured costumes and obsessing about some trophy.
Your call who's the crazier.
Don't you even use google or check anything before you start posting stuff as facts you know little about?Cartographer said:
Problem gambling is NOT considered an addiction in the profession. It is what psychiatrists call an impulse control disorder.
It's only been a recent trend to wrongly label everything as an addiction to make problems sound more grave and severe. The original definition of addiction is substance dependency only.
What exactly is your background with regard to psychiatrics and mental health? I just graduated from a four-year nursing program and will be attending medical school shortly, so my information should be relatively current in an ever-evolving field.veloper said:
Gambling addiction, sex addiction, and internet addiction will all be included in the as-yet-unpublished DSM-V (the latter two in the appendix, I believe), which will be released sometime within the next three years. The DSM-V will replace the current DSM-IV criteria that you seem to be referring to, so I can understand your confusion to a degree. I'd just like to add that these newly-recognized addictions are not a "trend," and they are not going away any time soon. They come from evidence-based research into the brain that indicates addictive behaviors alter brain chemistry in the same way that addictive substances do.
I appreciate all these thoughtful comments. It makes sense that there would be controversy and dissent about whether video gaming should be thought of as an addiction in some cases. There are of course even professionals who disagree about this.
There is likely a continuum ranging from more or less healthy use, which I think of as use that doesn't profoundly disrupt functioning outside of play or is well-integrated into the person's real life, to more compulsive, driven activity, which intrudes on real life in significant ways but isn't seriously destructive (I'd put my own WoW habit in this category--it was terribly compulsive and I spent way too much time doing it--it affected my sleep and energy level and was always on my mind, but it didn't cause me to lose my job or family), to what we might call addiction.
For me, this latter stage is characterized by an extreme loss of perspective. The person feels best when playing(the rest of life seems pale and dull), consistently loses track of time, repeatedly fails to meet basic life obligations resulting in major consequences--which can include loss of job, failing out of school, break ups of significant relationships (including divorce and loss of contact with parents or children), major financial troubles, serious health consequences (like gaining a great deal of weight, getting terribly out of shape, repetitive stress injuries, sleep disorder), and engages in a web of deceptions to sustain intensive use. The most important of these deceptions is denying to oneself the true consequences of the activity. They tell themselves their play isn't wreaking havoc on their lives, and when you point out the many ways this is happening, they simply ignore, deny, or explain it away. Some can tell you they know it isn't good for them and they ought to cut back, while simultaneously continuing and even intensifying play. When I talk to them I often have the experience that the person really in charge isn't in the room. They can tell me anything I want to hear, but some other part of them is unconsciously making decisions and guiding their actions.
If you look at this list of symptoms (and its hardly exhaustive--I'm reeling this off on a Saturday morning before I've even had my coffee!), its hard not to see parallels with the behavior of other addicts, and the idea that addictive video game play may be stimulating similar brain pathways, as research has shown with other addictive behaviors like gambling, makes a lot of sense.
I started writing about and thinking about video games not to simply point out that they can be addictive. I'm fascinated with the diversity and intensity and meaningfulness of these experiences in the lives of many players. I think they can serve complex and important psychological functions which may be critical and even adaptive for some of us. Whether they are healthy, compulsive, or addictive, I think we can agree that many of these games are "psycho-active," which is to say they have a real impact on how we think and feel and can affect some of us at a very deep psychological level at least some of the time.
I hope future columns can address some of these experiences, and I welcome any and all of your comments and questions at [email protected].
There is likely a continuum ranging from more or less healthy use, which I think of as use that doesn't profoundly disrupt functioning outside of play or is well-integrated into the person's real life, to more compulsive, driven activity, which intrudes on real life in significant ways but isn't seriously destructive (I'd put my own WoW habit in this category--it was terribly compulsive and I spent way too much time doing it--it affected my sleep and energy level and was always on my mind, but it didn't cause me to lose my job or family), to what we might call addiction.
For me, this latter stage is characterized by an extreme loss of perspective. The person feels best when playing(the rest of life seems pale and dull), consistently loses track of time, repeatedly fails to meet basic life obligations resulting in major consequences--which can include loss of job, failing out of school, break ups of significant relationships (including divorce and loss of contact with parents or children), major financial troubles, serious health consequences (like gaining a great deal of weight, getting terribly out of shape, repetitive stress injuries, sleep disorder), and engages in a web of deceptions to sustain intensive use. The most important of these deceptions is denying to oneself the true consequences of the activity. They tell themselves their play isn't wreaking havoc on their lives, and when you point out the many ways this is happening, they simply ignore, deny, or explain it away. Some can tell you they know it isn't good for them and they ought to cut back, while simultaneously continuing and even intensifying play. When I talk to them I often have the experience that the person really in charge isn't in the room. They can tell me anything I want to hear, but some other part of them is unconsciously making decisions and guiding their actions.
If you look at this list of symptoms (and its hardly exhaustive--I'm reeling this off on a Saturday morning before I've even had my coffee!), its hard not to see parallels with the behavior of other addicts, and the idea that addictive video game play may be stimulating similar brain pathways, as research has shown with other addictive behaviors like gambling, makes a lot of sense.
I started writing about and thinking about video games not to simply point out that they can be addictive. I'm fascinated with the diversity and intensity and meaningfulness of these experiences in the lives of many players. I think they can serve complex and important psychological functions which may be critical and even adaptive for some of us. Whether they are healthy, compulsive, or addictive, I think we can agree that many of these games are "psycho-active," which is to say they have a real impact on how we think and feel and can affect some of us at a very deep psychological level at least some of the time.
I hope future columns can address some of these experiences, and I welcome any and all of your comments and questions at [email protected].
