10-Year-Old Borrows Steamy Gay Sex Manga From Local Library
- Thread starter The Wooster
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I've not read any yaoi, but my understanding is that it has visual, hardcore sex, which is 100% illegal to sell to anyone under 18. Now, obviously, the library isn't selling anything, but their distribution rules should be the same as any other distributor's, no? And, beyond that, what kind of broken country do you live in where a EULA can override the actual law. "You murdered that man!" "Yeah, but it's in the agreement that I'm allowed to kill anyone who comes into my store." Riiiiiiight.maninahat said:
And to everyone saying, "It's the parent's responsibility," blah blah blah, I'm normally on your side. I really am. Kid's fat? Parents. Kid's watching too much TV? Parents. Kid's at the theater to see Watchman? Parents. Kid's playing Manhunter? Parents.
But you'll notice that theaters aren't allowed to let kids into rated R movies without an adult, and stores aren't allowed to sell M or AO games to minors. Personally, I've been going to the library on my own since I was 8 because it wasn't a far walk and my parents encouraged me to read. Parental responsibility goes a long way, but it seems like this guy did exactly what he should have, as a parent (though he's the uncle): he checked on what the kid was reading and removed the offending material.
I find it particularly telling that no one is saying the kid should have Hero's Heel, just that the library should be allowed to give the kid Hero's Heel. As a society, we have decided that certain visual media are not for children, graphic violence and graphic sex chief among them, and then we restrict the distribution of that media to minors when an adult is not present, and this is a good thing.
Children should be allowed a degree of independence. They should be able to go to the theater without parents worrying that they'll end up watching Saw VII. They should be able to go to Blockbuster without parents worrying that they'll come home with Vampire Hookers XXX. And they should be able to go to the library without parents worrying that they'll come home with hardcore sex.
Parental responsibility is all well and good, but after a certain point you're requiring parents to be awful, overprotective hags that never let their kids out of their sight. Society should be safe for children to be out of their parent's sight.
Finally, there are a number of clear difference between novels and visual media. A novel can only be as graphic as the reader's imagination, and a 10-year-old's imagination of sex and violence is going to be inherently limited. But, more importantly, while a single image can, in the space of a second, scar someone for life (I've got some links for you if you don't believe me), it takes a lot longer to read a similarly scarring amount of text, which gives parents time to remove the book.
And, personally, if I had a 12-year-old and they checked out A Clockwork Orange or American Psycho, I would probably take it away from them (it would depend on the maturity level of my kid, but 12 is by its very nature a fairly immature age).
At MOST, I think libraries should just make sure that these more adult manga's are clearly separated from the children's section. Other than that, I side with the Library.
I'm just glad its merely a complaint and not someone throwing a lawsuit tantrum. I'm even more glad that the library stated "We told you to be a parent, you lazy shit, and you decided not to. Deal with it." Instead of them folding over and admitting they were in the wrong when they weren't.
'Explicit content label clearly visible on the front cover'.
NOPE, NO PARENT TO BLAME HERE.
[sub]*sigh*[/sub]
NOPE, NO PARENT TO BLAME HERE.
[sub]*sigh*[/sub]
I disagree with the shelving policy of the library, but it definitley was the father's fault.
The library should not shelve youth manga with adult manga - it's that simple. They know better. Five bucks says their shelving policy will at least be revisited. Also, the staff member who circulated the item will probably have a meeting or two. They were following policy, but they should have at least alterted the parents.
<- Viewpoint coming from a librarian who has worked at school libraries where she's found hersefl stuggling with policy versus parents versus children's maturity levels.
It's a very slipperly slope.
Edit: Again, IT WAS THE FATHERS FAULT. All parents should monitor what their children are reading, pure and simple.
The library should not shelve youth manga with adult manga - it's that simple. They know better. Five bucks says their shelving policy will at least be revisited. Also, the staff member who circulated the item will probably have a meeting or two. They were following policy, but they should have at least alterted the parents.
<- Viewpoint coming from a librarian who has worked at school libraries where she's found hersefl stuggling with policy versus parents versus children's maturity levels.
It's a very slipperly slope.
Edit: Again, IT WAS THE FATHERS FAULT. All parents should monitor what their children are reading, pure and simple.
Librarian high five!AnnaIME said:
while i am 100% on the libraries side in this instance, and bravo for their response, i think they could maybe do a little bit better with either putting those books up higher or separating them a bit.
I've lived in the KCLS system my whole life. I didn't know I could have borrowed gay porn at any time. Not that I would have, but my mom would have noticed had I tried.
I should get back into borrowing things again. We have one of the best systems in the country I'm told.
I should get back into borrowing things again. We have one of the best systems in the country I'm told.
I don't really think the library is at fault here. The parents responsible should really keep an eye on the books their kids take home with them. After all you wouldn't allow them to watch whatever they wanted on the TV, would you? You'd check to make sure they didn't watch something unsuitable. It's not the TV's job to do that. You wouldn't let your kid search up whatever pictures and videos they felt like online.
But seriously... My male friends find female gay sex super hot. I don't see anyone raising an eyebrow when a guy talk about how totally sexy that is. Women have sexual urges and fantasies too. Shocking, I know.
Holy shit, WOMEN have fantasies? SEXUAL fantasies?! *mind blown*Zack Alklazaris said:
But seriously... My male friends find female gay sex super hot. I don't see anyone raising an eyebrow when a guy talk about how totally sexy that is. Women have sexual urges and fantasies too. Shocking, I know.
Woah, hold your horses! (Sorry, I've been waiting to use that one =D)Playful Pony said:
To be fair, it's not exactly common knowledge or expected of women to fantasise about men bumping uglies. I only know one girl who (at least admits) to finding two men kissing attractive, but people sincerely asked if I was heterosexual when I said I don't find two women kissing attractive. Hell, most women I asked were repulsed at the idea because they felt it emasculated at least one of the men involved, and we can't have men going around being weak little queerosexuals now, can we? *Grumble grumble*
Do you really think that this parent (or not parent, as the case may be) really is in the wrong here?Reveras said:
The little girl was 10, obviously too young for the material, and yet she was able to get to it easily. The parents have a responsibilty to their children's welfare, but at the same time, if you ask your daughter where she got the big stack of comic books from, and she replies "in the comic books section of the library", do you then go through every single one to make sure they're all on the up-and-up?
The complainer didn't buy it, nor get it for his niece. she picked it up, probably by herself, from the libaray, a public building. KCLS is most certainly not in the right here, and their "oh, you should've been more careful, because it's not OUR job to properly categorise our books" is just arrogant and stupid. Imagine if a video store put pornography out on the general shelves, and then told parents it's THEIR fault when their child picks one up?
I not sure how to address this, but I'm siding with the Library on this one. If you are going to ban adult non-fiction material (graphic novel or otherwise) for being pornographic, why stop there? Why not add the soft porn material like romance novels? Why not ban rated-R videos that have a nudity scene? Why not ban National Geographic magazine?
It's not the first time a kid was interested in racier material. Nor is it the Librarian's duty to play babysitter for your child, as they have enough duties that they actually get paid for. I remember reading Stephen King's "Four Past Midnight", which had a pretty explicit "Sandusky" scene. And I was about 11 years old at the time. Of course it was inappropriate for me to read, but then again...I wasn't the intended audience.
Point is, children are always going to try and access stuff intended for more mature audiences, whether it be adult books, movies, or video games. It's up to the parent to reign in how much their child is exposed to, not the institution they drop them off at.
Edit: Sorry, I had the wrong SK novel. Been awhile since I picked up one of his books.
It's not the first time a kid was interested in racier material. Nor is it the Librarian's duty to play babysitter for your child, as they have enough duties that they actually get paid for. I remember reading Stephen King's "Four Past Midnight", which had a pretty explicit "Sandusky" scene. And I was about 11 years old at the time. Of course it was inappropriate for me to read, but then again...I wasn't the intended audience.
Point is, children are always going to try and access stuff intended for more mature audiences, whether it be adult books, movies, or video games. It's up to the parent to reign in how much their child is exposed to, not the institution they drop them off at.
Edit: Sorry, I had the wrong SK novel. Been awhile since I picked up one of his books.
Oh I know I'm married to woman who loves these fantasies, I just didn't realize that particular fantasy was so popular there was a whole pop-culture around it.Playful Pony said:
EDIT: I really don't go by the whole female on female thing that guys love so much. As a guy... I just don't get it. So I tend not to try and compare it to fantasies women would have.
Kind of surprised that people are comparing an adult comic to an adult book. Don't you think one is a significantly bigger deal than the other?
Writing about sex and showing sex are pretty different and I am still kind of surprised items like this just don't have a warning show up when they swipe the barcodes, so they cannot be given children. I just can't see how any responsible librarian can give a 10 year old an adult manga with graphic sex scenes -- that they haven't lost their job is pretty shocking to me.
I mean how is the parent supposed to know they even had it, if all the child had to do is tuck it away somewhere and read it in private? Even if the parent came with them to the library, what is to stop the child from simply going alone (I used to do this after school all the time)?
What is honestly different from this situation than a 10 year old walking into a news agent and buying a Playboy or even a Hustler magazine? Would we still blame the parent here?
Writing about sex and showing sex are pretty different and I am still kind of surprised items like this just don't have a warning show up when they swipe the barcodes, so they cannot be given children. I just can't see how any responsible librarian can give a 10 year old an adult manga with graphic sex scenes -- that they haven't lost their job is pretty shocking to me.
I mean how is the parent supposed to know they even had it, if all the child had to do is tuck it away somewhere and read it in private? Even if the parent came with them to the library, what is to stop the child from simply going alone (I used to do this after school all the time)?
What is honestly different from this situation than a 10 year old walking into a news agent and buying a Playboy or even a Hustler magazine? Would we still blame the parent here?
AnnaIME said:
Judging by what this guy wrote and said, he is more interested in getting this kind of material out of the hands of kids, by, say, putting it in an "adults only" section, along with books like 50 Shades of Grey or other "raunchy" material.Blood Brain Barrier said:
The Library's response feels like nothing more than an eloquent middle finger to someone who is simply trying to look out for the wellfare of his niece and other children. "We can stock what we want, dipstick, and it's up to you to make sure that your child doesn't check out an adults-only manga amongst all the others that, apart from the parental advisory sticker, look more-or-less identical to every other manga to the untrained eye."
Totally on the side of the library.
The point of a public library is that everyone should have access to the information. It doesn't serve that mission statement to decide what is and what is not appropriate information, even for a little girl.
The simple truth is there are all kinds of literature that a parent may deem inappropriate for their child that simply cannot be easily classified as "adult" by the library. And even if you could, and stopped them from checking it out, how do you stop them from reading/seeing it in the library itself if you are letting the child roam unsupervised.
And, as they mentioned that these were catalogued different, you have to believe the child went in search of this and it wasn't an accident. I suspect this isn't the child's first foray into yaoi, just the first time the parent caught wind of it.
Take responsibility as a parent.
The point of a public library is that everyone should have access to the information. It doesn't serve that mission statement to decide what is and what is not appropriate information, even for a little girl.
The simple truth is there are all kinds of literature that a parent may deem inappropriate for their child that simply cannot be easily classified as "adult" by the library. And even if you could, and stopped them from checking it out, how do you stop them from reading/seeing it in the library itself if you are letting the child roam unsupervised.
And, as they mentioned that these were catalogued different, you have to believe the child went in search of this and it wasn't an accident. I suspect this isn't the child's first foray into yaoi, just the first time the parent caught wind of it.
Take responsibility as a parent.
Well I think somebody goofed up. It being a comic book I'm not sure what the law says about first amendment protection like books have so maybe it's a bit shaky legally. The library or the parents shouldn't have let her get her hands on it so easily. Though it's not the end of the world really. I don't know if it's anyone in particular's fault though I guess the library will keep an eye out for things like this in the future.
Maybe it was put in the wrong section (perhaps even the children's section) by mistake as it looks like a comic. When I used to work in a library well meaning, or lazy, customers would move books around, and just put them wherever and mess the whole system up.
Maybe it was put in the wrong section (perhaps even the children's section) by mistake as it looks like a comic. When I used to work in a library well meaning, or lazy, customers would move books around, and just put them wherever and mess the whole system up.
Perhaps, but that's just their policy. It's not the law. They don't HAVE to not allow kids to see R rated movies, but most places have the company policy of not doing that. At least in the US. Here in the UK I would have been, metaphorically, fucked by the law had one 14 year old seen a boob when I worked at a cinema.Azuaron said:
