I'm Still Waiting for My MMO
- Thread starter Dennis Scimeca
- Start date
I suggest - for the concept, not the execution - Face of Mankind.
That said, this is pretty much my dream as well ... An MMO that goes this one step further ... And doesn't fail when it comes to treating their customers well, when the game faces death for the gazillionth time ...
That said, this is pretty much my dream as well ... An MMO that goes this one step further ... And doesn't fail when it comes to treating their customers well, when the game faces death for the gazillionth time ...
I've been playing Eve for the past few months. I think it's good fun, though I might just be crazy. It certainly isn't for everyone, but, as far as I am concerned, it is very much what an MMO should be: a gigantic playable universe that is shaped by the players. All they really need to do is make the first hours of the game more appealing and it would probably get more people to stick with it. 
The reason you feel that way vis a vis MMO's having more potential than FPS's is because you are confusing a genre with a perspective. FPS games have certain limits as its always going to be a guy with a gun,that limits just how different these games can be as we've seen with the glut of COD-clones. First-person games in general? Much more potential as there are far fewer limits. MMO's have massive potential as the only limits are that they have to involve loads of people. MMORPG's? Less potential as now you have to involve all the chicanery involve with RPG's mixed in with loads of people, that limits just how different they can be, as we've seen with so many MMORPG's feeling like WoW lately. You are comparing FPS's with MMO's when you should really be comparing FPS's with MMORPG's.
The very fact that the terms MMO and MMORPG feel synonymous (and FPS with First-person) is the very problem with MMOs (and First-person games) today.
The very fact that the terms MMO and MMORPG feel synonymous (and FPS with First-person) is the very problem with MMOs (and First-person games) today.
I've given up on there ever being another Everquest. All the mechanics that encouraged a vibrant community, the things that drove you in desperation into the arms of strangers, are considered design flaws these days. They probably are design flaws, it was terrible when you couldn't find one of those helpful strangers. But without the community what has an MMO got left?
I also personally hate voice chat. It completely wrecks immersion, but now the gameplay is too hectic to really chat via text. We used to make fun of bards for having to press a button every second and how difficult it was for them to talk like that. We're all bards now...
Oh well, I'm also enjoying The Secret World. I'll probably play through the single player content, maybe do a handful of dungeons, and then drift away. Same as with Rift, same as with whatever MMO I played before that. Everquest had me for five years, I still love it dearly, but it's never going to happen again. I'll enjoy the new games for what they are.
(I'm kinda looking forward to Salem. That one looks different.)
I also personally hate voice chat. It completely wrecks immersion, but now the gameplay is too hectic to really chat via text. We used to make fun of bards for having to press a button every second and how difficult it was for them to talk like that. We're all bards now...
Oh well, I'm also enjoying The Secret World. I'll probably play through the single player content, maybe do a handful of dungeons, and then drift away. Same as with Rift, same as with whatever MMO I played before that. Everquest had me for five years, I still love it dearly, but it's never going to happen again. I'll enjoy the new games for what they are.
(I'm kinda looking forward to Salem. That one looks different.)
That pretty much sums up my feelings about MMORPGs. I love the concept, but they can never hold me for long. WoW held me for a year or so, and half that was out of sheer inertia ("my friends are there ... it's just what I do") rather than any real enjoyment. I'd rather get lost in an Elder Scrolls/Fallout/L.A. Noir/Red Dead Redemption-type world. I get a LOT more enjoyment out of those.
I'd really like an MMO with the feel of one of those games, and without the repetitive grind that seems all but inevitable in typical MMORPGs. And, no, I don't have much faith that Elder Scrolls Online will be the solution, either, unfortunately. (Prove me Wrong, Bethesda! PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!)
I loved the ideas behind The Secret World-and they really have done a pretty great job with it-but after a few weeks of playing the public beta, it just started to feel bland and repetitive and WoWish. (Just like SWToR before that.)
::sigh::
When's Dishonored[/I] coming out, again?
I'd really like an MMO with the feel of one of those games, and without the repetitive grind that seems all but inevitable in typical MMORPGs. And, no, I don't have much faith that Elder Scrolls Online will be the solution, either, unfortunately. (Prove me Wrong, Bethesda! PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!)
I loved the ideas behind The Secret World-and they really have done a pretty great job with it-but after a few weeks of playing the public beta, it just started to feel bland and repetitive and WoWish. (Just like SWToR before that.)
::sigh::
When's Dishonored[/I] coming out, again?
I just want to say that Ready Player One was awesome, and it made me want to play MMOs. Then I remembered that 90% of the story has nothing to do with MMOs mechanics presently, but even so brought me back to the old .hack sign days.
First Person Shooter fan?
Fan of MMOs?
Want to have persistence and consequence?
Can't believe you didn't mention the upcoming Dust514.
If you haven;t heard of it, check it out.
Is in the same universe as EVE, FPS, MMO.
Ticks all the boxes - I'm definitely looking forward to it.
Fan of MMOs?
Want to have persistence and consequence?
Can't believe you didn't mention the upcoming Dust514.
If you haven;t heard of it, check it out.
Is in the same universe as EVE, FPS, MMO.
Ticks all the boxes - I'm definitely looking forward to it.
I actually just picked up my Final Fantasy XI account this summer after five years away from it. Yeah go ahead and laugh, but in my experience there haven't been many games I've played with such an awesome community, even in MMOs. Most of them these days seem too obsessed with PVP rather than cooperation - If I wanted a competitive game I wouldn't play an MMO.
FFXI is on its tenth year running now and it's still pretty huge (helped by the fact that XIV sucked). They've even announced a fifth expansion pack for next year.
FFXI is on its tenth year running now and it's still pretty huge (helped by the fact that XIV sucked). They've even announced a fifth expansion pack for next year.
Go heavy, and go hard. MMOs, to my mind more so than most genres, have grown and are growing stale very quickly.Dennis Scimeca said:
Have you peeked a sneak at some of the more alternative offerings? As someone who has been on a search similar to yours (but with far less patience for traditional MMOs), I've amassed a small list of games that at least partially answer to my particular desires:
Vendetta Online has done away with the click target and press number-keys setup in favour of an active, fully twitch-based combat experience. Combined with a *very* dynamic world model (AI that expand and seize territory, shifting borders, transports that increase the numbers of guarding ships along heavily player-pirated routes, station blockades, a dynamic faction system that allows players to, with much work, switch sides, or become pariahs and outcasts from all social order, possibilities to influence item availability, etc), many unconventional and hardcore mechanics, a player corps that create new mission content, and an exceedingly nice community, it represents most things that most modern MMOs do not.
Darkwind Online is an post-apocalyptic open world MMO based on Car Wars, is highly tactical and skill-based, and has a *great* deal of unconventional and hardcore implementations. You don't control a single character, but a gang of up to 40-50 developing characters, and all your little dudes can age, grow old, become drug addicts, lose limbs in battle, fall ill, starve if not given access to food, and also die permanently. In combination with a very dynamic world (players can build camps in the wilderness, affect prices and access to materials, equipment, food and gasoline by attacking trader NPCs, or by trading themselves, drive away or attract higher numbers of pirate gangs, become branded as outlaws themselves, etc, etc), the best gaming community I've ever been a part of, very entertaining, physics-based and tactical combat, and possibilities for players to contribute to mission content, discuss and change some game rules, and affect the implementations of upcoming content, Darkwind is an entirely un-MMO-like virtual world.
Face of Mankind, mentioned above, is rather bare-bones in many respects, but also unlike most massive online games. Full twitch combat, an almost entirely player-run world, dynamic factions, factional warfare, all very hardcore, to the point of brutal but also to the point of refreshingly different.
Pirates of the Burning Sea has many of the trappings of the standard MMO genre, but also some surprises, a very different economic model, player-conquerable ports, and a very dynamic endgame.
And then there's always Haven & Hearth. I'm not saying you, or anyone, should play it. But it certainly is different
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The supposed "growth" of the MMO genre has really been more of a distillation. They've boiled it down to the most absolutely critical (and profitable) gameplay elements, and the rest are filtered out bit by bit. Or maybe it's more of a sharpening... and every time you sharpen a blade, you're removing metal. Or, as with evolution, some potentially useful genetic information gets tossed aside as "junk" because it wasn't the most immediately necessary trait this time 'round. Hell, pick your metaphor.Dennis Scimeca said:
MMOs used to be worlds. And players paid subscriptions as rent in those virtual worlds. I could go with the tired old "sandbox versus theme park" comparison, too. They weren't guided tours of preconstructed content. They were thematic toolkits for exploring a world with which many of your players were familiar (Star Wars) or maybe not (Everquest, in my case).
The biggest (and worst) portion of the world that's been cut in nearly every MMO? Non-heroic, non-combat gameplay. The ability to be something other than the "hero of the universe" or "slayer of the Big Bads." Crafting wasn't just a diversion or a money sink. It could be a full-time way of engaging the game (and the game engaging you right back). You didn't have to live out the life of a main character. You could live your own. You could be "just a guy" in the Star Wars universe, for instance, instead of having to be Luke or Vader.
(Something that hasn't been streamlined? Prices. Subscription fees have increased or stayed the same. Because the early MMOs got us all used to the idea of continuous payment... to the point that we'll pay continuously for a stagnant experience. We stopped demanding worlds, and they were happy to stop providing them.)
I never will forget my first and last. World of Warcraft was my first true MMO and god dammit that feeling of being in a whole other world with players running around you and doing your own thing... the feeling is just indescribable.
Sadly, I've tried getting that feeling back by making new characters and trying out different MMOs but it's never coming back.
Sadly, I've tried getting that feeling back by making new characters and trying out different MMOs but it's never coming back.
I played in the beta and early on as a Freetrader. This game fell prey to the two biggest problems in any "world PvP" system: unbalanced sides, and unbalanced classes.Ayjona said:
Unbalanced sides, well, that's an obvious problem. Once the game slants toward a particular side (in terms of numbers), it's all over but the crying. Having a small number of highly-skilled players can't save you from the fact that the other team has enough players on it to keep the pressure on 24-7. Zerg doesn't win by running over the opponent, it wins by flowing around them.
Unbalanced classes ensured that even on the "winning" side, fun was reserved for a particular group. By that, I mean "Ships of the Line." When it came to port battles, it didn't matter how much you wanted to play. If you weren't a top-shelf Naval Officer with a well-outfitted SoL, you were treated like a liability to the team... and what's worse is they were right. A freetrader effectively had nothing to contribute to the fight that was better than having another huge ship firing on the enemy.
So, the "world PvP" quickly became "Wolfpacks around ports picking on FTs" and "Naval Officers getting to play the 'real game' in their giant ships."
Well, good news is, a couple of the classic MMOs are now free to play, like the original EverQuest, or Everquest II, which I feel should have been as big as WoW, but it's requirements were so obscene at the time that even top of the line PCs couldn't run it.
Ahh this is a sad realization many MMO players come to. Unfortunately once you learn how to play an MMO, they cease to become a fantasy, you realize the system behind it, and even when it comes to playing a completely different MMO, the feeling can't be recreated because the facade has faded.DugMachine said:
In that respect WoW has spoilt any MMO that tries to be anything remotely like it, it would take a truly completely innovative MMO, I'm talking a completely unique set of systems, archetypes, combat, atmosphere, environment etc to give veterans(of which there are a LOT more thanks to WoW) that feeling again.
Yeah, at the moment WoW is my last MMO and if I ever need a fix i'll go straight back to it. I'm hoping their secret project Titan will be something different... but my hopes aren't too high. I'll stick with my TF2 and indie games for nowZing said: