Electronic Arts VP Says Sexism Complaints Are "Misguided"

[Andy Chalk]

Electronic Arts VP Says Sexism Complaints Are "Misguided"

Electronic Arts Vice President Gabrielle Toledano says that blaming sexism for the shortage of women in the game industry is a "cop-out."

Nobody will argue that there are far fewer women working in the videogame industry than men, and very few would claim that sexism, in one form or another, isn't largely responsible. But in a recent column on Forbes, Gabrielle Toledano, executive vice president and chief talent officer at Electronic Arts, argues that very point, stating that if we want to increase the number of women working in the industry, "We have to recognize that the problem isn't sexism."

Toledano acknowledged that sexism is an issue but claimed that it's no worse in the videogame industry than anywhere else. Instead, she said that a lot of women are reluctant to identify as gamers, which naturally precludes any thoughts about pursuing a career in game development, and that while the industry "needs and wants more women," there just aren't enough of them to hire.

"If women don't join this industry because they believe sexism will limit them, they're missing out. The sky is the limit when it comes to career opportunities for women (and men) in games. If we want the tide to turn and the ratio of men to women to really change then we need to start making women realize that fact," she wrote. "Sexism is an unfortunate reality of our times, but as women we must seek the power and ability in ourselves to change the dynamic. Cast aside the preconceptions, and look for the opportunities and places to make an impact. And I can tell you firsthand that in the video game industry women are not just welcome, we are necessary and we are equal."

Source: Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2013/01/18/women-and-video-gamings-dirty-little-secrets/]


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[Gearhead mk2]

I think there is some truth to this. From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice. That said, sexism in the industry and the community is still an issue, and we do need to talk about it and try to weed it out.

 

[Hagi]

Sounds like a good attitude to have and it seems to match what I've seen myself whilst studying IT.

I didn't notice any hostility specifically against women, there simply weren't many of them. Those that were there were treated equal on all accounts as far as I'm aware but they were a vast minority.

 

[Varitel]

From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice.

I think that the so-called personal choice may actually stem from inherently sexist social pressures. This is the same for almost all of the tech fields. There is this norm that dictates that women don't write code or build things or whatever, that those are "guy" things. There isn't a good reason for it, but such pressures do exist and are also a problem. I spent 4 years pursuing a B.S. in Electrical Engineering, and if you add up all of the women who were ever in any of my engineering classes, you'd get maybe 12. If that many men are "choosing" to go into engineering and that few women, there must be some externalities at work.

 

[Epona]

From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice.

I think that the so-called personal choice may actually stem from inherently sexist social pressures. This is the same for almost all of the tech fields. There is this norm that dictates that women don't write code or build things or whatever, that those are "guy" things. There isn't a good reason for it, but such pressures do exist and are also a problem. I spent 4 years pursuing a B.S. in Electrical Engineering, and if you add up all of the women who were ever in any of my engineering classes, you'd get maybe 12. If that many men are "choosing" to go into engineering and that few women, there must be some externalities at work.

Yes, like women making different choices. I just love how women can't even be responsible for their own choices, there is always a man to blame for everything.

 

[mfeff]

Similar to another article from an EA human resources manager discussing qualified degree software engineers, the lack of being the topic, within the industry. Going to armchair this one, but as it has been my experience the women that would be of greatest asset to the industry are often times, better than, the industry. They are above it.

To round that statement out some, many capable women with an active and curious engagement in the technical sciences generally find themselves pursuing accolades in hard science fields which are much better established than that of the games industry. Can't say I blame the gender for simply being smart enough to realize that being paid peanuts on the dollar and working insane hours in production pipelines not as attractive as perhaps a cushy research job, or industrial applications appointment offering superior compensation and impeccable work environment.

Let us be real for a second... if you are qualified to work on the software suite for a new Ford automobile your job is secure. If you where over at 38 studies doing world building for some piece of vapor-ware... life just came at at you fast.

Turn over rate in software (games) is high... really high. Surprised anyone stays in it for very long, man or woman. I suppose if one "loves" it then your not really working.

Then again, why work for EA at the sequel farm? Just cook your own game up and sell it out the back door. If your own office is a hostile work environment, you got bigger problems than moronic sexism at an E3.

 

[Entitled]

That's still caused by sexism if you look at the bigger picture, even if not by misogynist CEOs intentional malvolance.

That there can be so extremely fewer women in ANY industry than man, isn't simply caused by the whims of ladies not feeling like becoming game developers, but also the result of both thousands of years of "stay in the kitchen", combined with the past few decades of fresh stereotyping and male nerd hostility against girls in gaming.

EA might be many things, but they are innocent about this one. That doesn't mean that the rest of us should just shrug and conclude that "for ome reason there are simply fewer women in gaming than men, even though we aren't even actively chasing them away with pitchforks (any more)."

 

[Gearhead mk2]

From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice.

I think that the so-called personal choice may actually stem from inherently sexist social pressures. This is the same for almost all of the tech fields. There is this norm that dictates that women don't write code or build things or whatever, that those are "guy" things. There isn't a good reason for it, but such pressures do exist and are also a problem. I spent 4 years pursuing a B.S. in Electrical Engineering, and if you add up all of the women who were ever in any of my engineering classes, you'd get maybe 12. If that many men are "choosing" to go into engineering and that few women, there must be some externalities at work.

I agree to an extent. I know social pressures can be fairly affecting, given that they are everywhere, and I'm all for talking about predujices in everyday life, but I think you're reading too much into that. Not everything is something-ist. Yes, biases and social pressures can keep women out of IT, but it can't be the only reason why there's more men. Maybe men are just more atracted to the tech field.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

 

[Epona]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

It's easy to understand but most people think that sexism only applies to women and I object to those people. No one screams sexism when women dominate teaching or nursing because that wouldn't be PC.

 

[havoc33]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

And you shouldn't forget that women and men are different to begin with either. Sure, society will have it's impact, but nature itself made us different, and we will already from when we're little babies make different choices because of our gender. I'm quite sure you are well aware of the whole nature vs nurture debate.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

I think it's a fair point. If sexism was the reason that there aren't many women working in the gaming industry, then women wouldn't work in any industry. That said though, you still can't deny that there's kind of a "Boy's Club" vibe in gaming as a whole. Maybe that vibe exists more because of the lack of women and is less the cause of it, but it's still there. It's also worth considering that few social groups are as hostile towards their women as nerd culture (ie: the "fake" geek girl hate, and the fact that women are usually more called upon to "prove" that they're actually into anime/comics/games/etc), so I could certainly see how, when growing up, most women will end-up being drawn more towards other social groups, and thus there aren't as many women in the industry who's fans end-up turning them off to it.

So you can certainly argue that sexism is a cop-out, but you also can't deny that it's a big factor.

 

[ShirowShirow]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

This.

It's a total chicken VS egg scenario in any case. Not many women identify as gamers because not many games target women.

 

[chadachada123]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

But why does it need to change? Forcing women into careers they just don't want, and men into the same, would be counterproductive, and, if anything, would increase sexism/resentment towards society.

Just let people go into whatever field they want to (and are good at), regardless of gender. As noted, this is already happening in many fields on the employer end. And if women in general still don't like engineering, then *why should it matter*? There will obviously end up being differences in demographics between careers, no matter how much society just doesn't care, because of differences in chemistry/physiology and just-plain-chance.

Side note: Many people (outside the industry) still think that the comic book industry is sexist, that conditions are nastier for women writers/artists, but at least several females actually in the industry have noted that it just isn't the case; that, while women are rare in the industry, they are not treated differently there. I can provide a source if requested, but it will take some digging. I imagine there's similar things at work for the video game industry.

 

[alphamalet]

As someone currently studying game design at a university, I can tell you that what she says is absolutely true. There are no women in any of my courses (maybe about 1 or 2). We want and would love more women to be a part of what we do and offer a different perspective, the department has tried advertising specifically to women in the hope of generating interest in our program, but their efforts have gone without result.

Seriously, IF YOU ARE A WOMEN INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING GAMES, THEN PURSUE THIS INTEREST!

It's the first step to having a broader range of input in video games, and can lead to nothing but good.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Why do so many people ignore the societal elements of sexism? Seriously, why? Is that something that just goes straight over everyone's head? Society and gender roles push women towards more "caring" and "service" careers (like nursing, teaching, and waiting) while it pushes men towards more "technical" and "production" careers (like accounting, construction, and engineering). This is bad and needs to change. Is that so hard to understand? :\

I agree that society enforced gender rolls can go fuck themselves. But I have to wonder, even without preconceptions, just how different men and women really are in human terms.

Not by much, really. Beyond predispositions towards certain body-types, men and women have little to no differences, psychologically.

And with that, I take my leave of this thread. I have seen enough of these type of threads to know how they go. Pretty soon Phasmal, Vault101, or evilthecat will show up, then Therumancer, mathew_lane, or someone similar will make an appearance, and the entire thread will descend into flames. So, excuse if I want to get out now when the getting is good, now that I have said my piece.

 

[Verlander]

Industry and community are very different things. She's probably right, in any industry that there is a demographic missing, their opportunities to get to the top are dramatically increased.

Open sexism isn't commonplace in any professional workplace, for fear of lawsuit (if nothing else).