Electronic Arts VP Says Sexism Complaints Are "Misguided"

[Abomination]

I find it depressing that this opinion is only considered valid because it was a woman who has it. When earlier sentiments have been expressed by men they have been shot down, ignored or simply mocked.

There is not some magical restriction in the game industry that states "you must have these genitals to ride". The reason there are less women in the gaming industry is because less are interested in the gaming industry because of some self fulfilling prophecy stating that the industry is sexist and the number of women not in the industry proves it! Talk about circular causality.

 

[The Material Sheep]

I don't think she was claiming an absence just not a stark difference from any other industry/business these days. Which I think is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. I for one plan on taking her up on the offer in a few years, assuming everything goes super well.

I meant sexism in excess of the norm. One would think that with the treatment of women in videogames and the whole Sarkeesian disaster, that the industry would be similar (I mean, look at the Dead Island: Riptide severed bust. I wonder if some of the developers were women, and whether they thought that might be in poor taste).

I think its a misconception of joining the industry itself with the community that has congregated around it. I'd agree with you that the gaming community itself is probably more sexist/homophobic on a percentage level then the average populace, but you have to divorce the community from the professional industry that has to deal with legal matters, corporate oversight and lets face it just benign self interest. I'm just GLAD to not be surprised on this matter and to see that it's a rather level headed place in the industry itself. Well... I'm glad that one piece of evidence supports the claim at least.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think there is some truth to this. From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice. That said, sexism in the industry and the community is still an issue, and we do need to talk about it and try to weed it out.

On the flipside, there are fewer women in general in technical fields and women tend to perform worse at math and science.

We can believe that women just aren't good at math and science and the like, or look to external issues.

So yeah, there may be a grain of truth, but I think it's coated in a big wad of something else.

 

[lacktheknack]

It's a valid point. I'm in an electronics engineering course, which is a "stereotypical male career". We don't have any problem with women, it's just that only TWO applied, and then one dropped out because of constant illness.

So we have one girl in a class of twenty. Because we're so sexist, right? No, because women may apply, but they just aren't.

It's reversed in the nursing industry. I recently visited my sister in the hospital, and there was not a male nurse to be seen. Because sexism? No, because men don't often apply to nursing. I know some do (I even know a guy who has), but they're so rare right now that we'll have to wait for things to balance out naturally. Even if we only accepted male nursing applications starting tomorrow, we still wouldn't have an influx of male nurses for another six or seven years...

 

[The Material Sheep]

I think there is some truth to this. From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice. That said, sexism in the industry and the community is still an issue, and we do need to talk about it and try to weed it out.

On the flipside, there are fewer women in general in technical fields and women tend to perform worse at math and science.

We can believe that women just aren't good at math and science and the like, or look to external issues.

So yeah, there may be a grain of truth, but I think it's coated in a big wad of something else.

I don't think the lady was denying that there was sexism in the industry. She was just saying that it wasn't anymore prevalent in the games industry then any other technical field. The gaming industry itself isn't an anomaly of antiquated 50's sexism. It's got problems but nothing more then the general cultural problem we have regarding the subject.

 

[Darken12]

I think its a misconception of joining the industry itself with the community that has congregated around it. I'd agree with you that the gaming community itself is probably more sexist/homophobic on a percentage level then the average populace, but you have to divorce the community from the professional industry that has to deal with legal matters, corporate oversight and lets face it just benign self interest. I'm just GLAD to not be surprised on this matter and to see that it's a rather level headed place in the industry itself. Well... I'm glad that one piece of evidence supports the claim at least.

I think you make a fairly good point, as the community doesn't have to abide by any discrimination laws or fear any lawsuits. However, that doesn't mean that the mentality isn't the same. Just because your coworkers treat you politely doesn't mean they don't think you're just a piece of meat. Again, I point out the portrayal of women in videogames, relegated to secondary roles (usually as victims, supporting cast, prizes to fight over or sources of motivation for male heroes), their chainmail bikinis and revealing outfits, their general objectification and so on. It's hard to tell if game developers are genuinely that juvenile and inadvertently sexist/homophobic/etc or if they are aware of the horrible things they put out (like the DI:R bust) and do it because they think that's what they need to do to stay in business.

 

[lacktheknack]

I think there is some truth to this. From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice. That said, sexism in the industry and the community is still an issue, and we do need to talk about it and try to weed it out.

On the flipside, there are fewer women in general in technical fields and women tend to perform worse at math and science.

We can believe that women just aren't good at math and science and the like, or look to external issues.

So yeah, there may be a grain of truth, but I think it's coated in a big wad of something else.

Keep in mind that testosterone/estrogen may cause brains to work differently based on how much is present. Some stereotypes exist for a reason.

(I'm not saying which ones because I don't presume to know which are accurate, so don't feel the need to viciously attack me for being open to unpopular possibilities.)

 

[Jamous]

She's right of course, but the fact remains. It's still sexism that makes a great deal of women feel that way. It is changing though; slowly. It's good to see.

 

[bananafishtoday]

I find it depressing that this opinion is only considered valid because it was a woman who has it. When earlier sentiments have been expressed by men they have been shot down, ignored or simply mocked.

To be fair, it's an issue where a woman's opinion carries far more weight than a man's. A woman can speak far more authoritatively on whether a workplace is hostile to women, because she's speaking from first-hand experience.

That isn't to say a man's opinion should be ignored or ridiculed, but it can be hard to tell whether he has any idea what he's talking about, especially since men by and large don't experience sexism at all.

 

[The Material Sheep]

I think its a misconception of joining the industry itself with the community that has congregated around it. I'd agree with you that the gaming community itself is probably more sexist/homophobic on a percentage level then the average populace, but you have to divorce the community from the professional industry that has to deal with legal matters, corporate oversight and lets face it just benign self interest. I'm just GLAD to not be surprised on this matter and to see that it's a rather level headed place in the industry itself. Well... I'm glad that one piece of evidence supports the claim at least.

I think you make a fairly good point, as the community doesn't have to abide by any discrimination laws or fear any lawsuits. However, that doesn't mean that the mentality isn't the same. Just because your coworkers treat you politely doesn't mean they don't think you're just a piece of meat. Again, I point out the portrayal of women in videogames, relegated to secondary roles (usually as victims, supporting cast, prizes to fight over or sources of motivation for male heroes), their chainmail bikinis and revealing outfits, their general objectification and so on. It's hard to tell if game developers are genuinely that juvenile and inadvertently sexist/homophobic/etc or if they are aware of the horrible things they put out (like the DI:R bust) and do it because they think that's what they need to do to stay in business.

I think many... many of the slip ups that happen are a case of just not thinking things through and the lack of a substantial female perspective in the industry as a whole. That is an effect of things, not a cause however. I'll admit the riptide thing as really gross, and unappealing (sexist? ehh maybe... it's just really fucking gross man does have to be anything more then that.) but that doesn't make chain mail bikinis or scantily clad women BAD, it just means you have to take it for what it is. Hell some of my favorite deviant art artists(all women), do a lot of scantily clad women drawings just because that's what they like to draw. It's there thing, they're good at it. They don't see putting the female form on a pedestal of idealism as something bad. Sexism is when that is the ONLY option or a forced option in which it is the ONLY way a female can succeed. I agree with the sentiment that it's still not where it needs to be, it's far from where it needs to be but that stuff existing is not inherently bad/sexist/evil.

 

[lacktheknack]

I think its a misconception of joining the industry itself with the community that has congregated around it. I'd agree with you that the gaming community itself is probably more sexist/homophobic on a percentage level then the average populace, but you have to divorce the community from the professional industry that has to deal with legal matters, corporate oversight and lets face it just benign self interest. I'm just GLAD to not be surprised on this matter and to see that it's a rather level headed place in the industry itself. Well... I'm glad that one piece of evidence supports the claim at least.

I think you make a fairly good point, as the community doesn't have to abide by any discrimination laws or fear any lawsuits. However, that doesn't mean that the mentality isn't the same. Just because your coworkers treat you politely doesn't mean they don't think you're just a piece of meat. Again, I point out the portrayal of women in videogames, relegated to secondary roles (usually as victims, supporting cast, prizes to fight over or sources of motivation for male heroes), their chainmail bikinis and revealing outfits, their general objectification and so on. It's hard to tell if game developers are genuinely that juvenile and inadvertently sexist/homophobic/etc or if they are aware of the horrible things they put out (like the DI:R bust) and do it because they think that's what they need to do to stay in business.

I'm actually going to take umbrage with this.

I haven't seen the "stereotypical secondary chunk-of-meat" female character in... a LONG time, now. Maybe it's just the games I play?

Mirror's Edge is a good example. Faith is a cynical law-stretcher who's a hell of a better runner than you, her sister is a cop with a powerful sense of integrity, they act like sisters, and the game never treats them as anything else. Furthermore, Celeste is another ass-kicking runner... who is never really built up, but she's still not viewed as anything other than Faith's friend until (spoiler: PLAY THE GAME). In terms of sexuality, it's virtually non-existant. Faith and Celeste are in conservative tank-tops and baggy runner's pants because of what they do all the time, and Kate's in a conservative cop uniform. Even better, Faith absolutely hands people's asses to them, male AND female. Not much of a pretty face, is she?

In the Myst series, all the take-action characters are girls (except the villains). Yeesha actively defends herself against kidnappers, and then later in life, she restarts life in the entire cavern. Catherine starts out as a damsel in distress, but after she's freed, she promptly evacuates an entire civilization within an hour or so. That's damned impressive.

And that's OLD news, it hasn't gotten worse nowadays. In The Sims, women are statistically equal to men. Same with XCOM and Skyrim (in previous games, men and women were statistically equal, but different). Velvet Assassin was about a female spy. Lara Croft still kicks all the ass, and has had her infamous bust shrunk to almost realistic proportions over the last few games. Sexism in games themselves is nearly dead.

I haven't even seen the oh-so-sexist chainmail bikini in any non-Japanese game in... years.

 

[Something Amyss]

(I'm not saying which ones because I don't presume to know which are accurate, so don't feel the need to viciously attack me for being open to unpopular possibilities.)

Maybe you should know what you're talking about before you say such things, rather than defensively posting that you're only affirming a possibility.

Especially since it IS tripe here.

Some stereotypes exist for no good reason.

 

[lacktheknack]

(I'm not saying which ones because I don't presume to know which are accurate, so don't feel the need to viciously attack me for being open to unpopular possibilities.)

Maybe you should know what you're talking about before you say such things, rather than defensively posting that you're only affirming a possibility.

Especially since it IS tripe here.

Some stereotypes exist for no good reason.

You're saying hormones don't affect brain patter-

lacktheknack, STAHP. You've been through this before.

 

[lacktheknack]

I think there is some truth to this. From what I can tell, there aren't really too many women on game design courses or in game studios, just from personal choice. That said, sexism in the industry and the community is still an issue, and we do need to talk about it and try to weed it out.

On the flipside, there are fewer women in general in technical fields and women tend to perform worse at math and science.

We can believe that women just aren't good at math and science and the like, or look to external issues.

So yeah, there may be a grain of truth, but I think it's coated in a big wad of something else.

Keep in mind that testosterone/estrogen may cause brains to work differently based on how much is present. Some stereotypes exist for a reason.

(I'm not saying which ones because I don't presume to know which are accurate, so don't feel the need to viciously attack me for being open to unpopular possibilities.)

I've actually heard that genders remember things differently, things like shape and color as opposed to weather or not it was a threat. But the truth is you can't be sure how much of their behavior is due to preconceptions in society. Like you were saying about having only one woman in your engineering class: You could be the most welcoming profession in the world, but that doesn't change the fact that women simply aren't expected or encouraged to become engineers. Same goes for male nursing, and it's not as though there isn't still some stigma for those who try to go against gender roles.

The issue wouldn't sexism in an specific industry, it's sexism in general.

In that case, I don't see why the industry is expected to fix it if it's a society issue.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I think it is good that the doors are open, officially at least. I'm a little too well-read to believe that the reality of an industry can be taken from the comments of one (possibly token) female VP who is no doubt herself under a great deal of - spoken or unspoken, direct or indirect - pressure to present a positive picture of the industry she's placed in and the company she represents. The roots of why society tends towards patriarchy are long and deep and - not to dishearten anyone fighting "the good fight" - they are not getting pulled up any time soon. Not without a full reorganization of human society. Being that we're rather stuck with an imperfect situation, making the best of it is about all we can do. I'd love to see my ladies in games - I'd love to see more people in games, of either gender, so long as they are passionate about what they do.

 

[Abomination]

I find it depressing that this opinion is only considered valid because it was a woman who has it. When earlier sentiments have been expressed by men they have been shot down, ignored or simply mocked.

To be fair, it's an issue where a woman's opinion carries far more weight than a man's. A woman can speak far more authoritatively on whether a workplace is hostile to women, because she's speaking from first-hand experience.

That isn't to say a man's opinion should be ignored or ridiculed, but it can be hard to tell whether he has any idea what he's talking about, especially since men by and large don't experience sexism at all.

Just because one doesn't have something happen to them directly does not mean they can not observe something happening or, in this case, not happening and comment on that.

It is just ironic that it takes sexism to clarify that no sexism is taking place in a particular industry.

I just hope there's not going to be a push for some kind of affirmative action to encourage women to enter the industry - not because I don't want women in the industry, I am entirely neutral on that subject - but because such incentives will likely be sexist in their application.

If an industry is dominated by a gender due to what the industry produces being marketed and consumed primarily (in currency figures, not capita) by that gender should we really complain when said gender is the dominant demographic? There doesn't need to be a 50/50 spilt everywhere - it honestly isn't worth the time, effort, resources, and interference in the industry to encourage or force such a situation. As long as there are no industry erected barriers to entry for either gender the situation should be ignored - something that is true in the video game industry, the nursing industry, accountancy, biology, chemistry, teaching? and so forth.

 

[Mikeyfell]

What! someone who works at EA said something I agree with?!?!?!?!?
It's a sign of the Apocalypse!!
(I always figured EA would be responsible for it, but not in this way)