12-Year-Old Rings Up $1400 Farmville Bill

[ssgt splatter]

That little brat. I sympathise with mother on this one. If it was my kid, I'd ban him from using the compuiter of 2 months.

Forget 2 months, try 2 years. He didn't ask her, did he?

True.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

I think the catch here is, to contest the charges as fraudulent, the card has to be reported as stolen (effectively). Otherwise, to contest the charge, you have to demonstrate that the card was charged for goods not received. The problem is, then, after the card is used fraudulently the police have to open a case and issue a warning against the kid. Once that's done the transaction is illegal and the card company is obligated to negate the transactions. Which makes a weird kind of sense. (Keeping in mind that Canada's laws are ridiculously consumer friendly compared to most of the developed world.)

From the court's point of view you have only to prove two things:

1: You, as the cardholder, did not authorise the transaction(s) which are contested.
2: You took measures considered to be adequete to the average person to prevent unauthorised use of the card.

It should be theoretically possible to demonstrate that the user agreement was executed in bad faith, given that one of the parties was too young to consent, but, I'm not sure how well that would hold up in court. Additionally that would require expensive court proceedings that would cost more than the amount recovered.

It's actually an entirely viable claim an one that would likely stand up, which makes Facebooks response curious - but not so much when I recall that this is a company the federal government has had to take to court to ensure compliance to law. They don't seem too eager to play nice.

From your next post: What exactly is a SIN card?

A social insurance number is used by various government agencies in canada - Health Canada and Revenue Canada - to dispense various benefits such as our 'free' healthcare. It has over time become essentially a national identification number in the same way that social security numbers are in the United States.

Anyone who has a social insurance number in Canada is issued a SIN card, which is almost identical to a credit card in it's security features, excepting that SIN numbers can also be validated through a method called Luhn's Alogrithm. More on SINs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_insurance_number

 

[mikecoulter]

That kid needs a life lesson. Or a swift year in boarding school.

 

[Pigeon_Grenade]

She thinks there should be a password for when you make charges ON ZYNGA GAMES, which I agree with.

Zynga's unhelpful advice was that she should have put passwords on her entire computer in anticipation of her son spending a thousand dollars online, that's just stupid.

Not really. He IS a kid after all, and kids do stupid things a lot. It falls to the mother/father/both to keep an eye on him, and Zynga is completely in the right. If she had put up a password, or more importantly, kept here Credit card number away from him (honestly, I would take steps to ensure that MY kid(s) would not get that number, whatever the cost), this would not have happened. but she didn't, and shes paying for it.

Whos to say that the kid dident rummage through her purse for the number when she wasent looking?

 

[Marsell]

Why would someone pay for something like that?

 

[Starke]

I think the catch here is, to contest the charges as fraudulent, the card has to be reported as stolen (effectively). Otherwise, to contest the charge, you have to demonstrate that the card was charged for goods not received. The problem is, then, after the card is used fraudulently the police have to open a case and issue a warning against the kid. Once that's done the transaction is illegal and the card company is obligated to negate the transactions. Which makes a weird kind of sense. (Keeping in mind that Canada's laws are ridiculously consumer friendly compared to most of the developed world.)

From the court's point of view you have only to prove two things:

1: You, as the cardholder, did not authorise the transaction(s) which are contested.
2: You took measures considered to be adequete to the average person to prevent unauthorised use of the card.

Honestly, that's a pretty coherent two part test.

I'll admit I don't know much about UK law. Based on what the article is saying, it looks like she has to file a report with the police in order to prove the first part. Which would result in a caution being filed against her son.

This does (sort of) make a lot of sense, when you consider that the transactions originated from the same address as the card holder, the requirement of police involvement prevents spurious charge reversals.

It should be theoretically possible to demonstrate that the user agreement was executed in bad faith, given that one of the parties was too young to consent, but, I'm not sure how well that would hold up in court. Additionally that would require expensive court proceedings that would cost more than the amount recovered.

It's actually an entirely viable claim an one that would likely stand up, which makes Facebooks response curious - but not so much when I recall that this is a company the federal government has had to take to court to ensure compliance to law. They don't seem too eager to play nice.

I'm not as sure it would hold up. At least not in an American court. You could use it to nullify the EULA itself, but as for reversing the charges? That's a much dicier proposition.

BTW: Thanks for the information on the SIN Card.

Why would someone pay for something like that?

The same reason I blew nearly 400 bucks on Star Trek Online. It's fun for someone. Of course the difference is I HAD 400 bucks I could afford to blow on it, and most of that was for a life sub, so I didn't have to mess around with subscription fees, but still.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

I'm not as sure it would hold up. At least not in an American court. You could use it to nullify the EULA itself, but as for reversing the charges? That's a much dicier proposition.

In Canada at least - I cannot really comment on law in other countries and I Am Not A Lawyer anyways (I'm an accountant, and get half a soul, whee!) - a transaction made under the pretenses of a false contract would be considered non-binding and a refund woul have to be given on request. Of course, business are very very rarely good-hearted enough to do this themselves, and this often goes to court, and eventually to a settlement. The real question to me is whether or not it's worth it ... and this is borderline for me. Anything above 1500$ is Large Claims Court and that usually does become worth it, if only because settlements usually include lawyer's fees.

[edit]: The company would also be in full rights to revoke the services rendered if the money is refunded and it only gets dodgy if the services could not be revoked, ie, web designs can't be 'taken back'. It's incredibly easy, however, for Zynga to suspend or terminate the account and return the money.

 

[samsonguy920]

.....@Samsonguy920: I guess in a way, I can't blame Zynga for wanting to look the other way. Like any other corporation out there, it exists to make money and isn't too picky about where it comes from. But like the mother suggested, it could really do with a bit more security to stop more instances like this.

Then all that is needed is convincing Zynga it is in their best interest to provide security that benefits their customers. Zynga doesn't lose in instances like this.
Considering Zynga's boss has put himself on the same shelf as Activision's Kotnick, one would wonder what tactic might be needed to convince them.

A social insurance number is used by various government agencies in canada - Health Canada and Revenue Canada - to dispense various benefits such as our 'free' healthcare. It has over time become essentially a national identification number in the same way that social security numbers are in the United States.

Anyone who has a social insurance number in Canada is issued a SIN card, which is almost identical to a credit card in it's security features, excepting that SIN numbers can also be validated through a method called Luhn's Alogrithm. More on SINs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_insurance_number

Thanks for that info!

 

[DoW Lowen]

This is bad, it gives a bad name to us REAL GAMERS.

.... I sincerely hope you're joking.

OT: I remember when I was in the 7th grade and I was loading up porn off the internet, little did I know that going to certain sites would charge the home phone bill for privilege of access. A month later there was $60 listed on the bill as "Adult". Never again...

 

[zana bonanza]

From the sound of it, this kid doesn't know the value of a dollar...or a pound--you guys still use pounds, right? Or whatever, you get the point.

Either the kid really doesn't give a damn, or he just doesn't realize how much that was. And I'm inclined to think the former, because kids generally assume even the smallest bit of money is a fortune. Or at least they did when I was that age. I would save my allowance and birthday money for as long as possible, and having one hundred dollars was rich. I know times have changed, but still.

I actually have a brother who's twelve and he definitely knows better. He's no angel, of course, most little boys aren't, and I wouldn't put it pass him to nick a few bucks from my dad's wallet to buy a toy or something, but he wouldn't go that far. And I highly doubt he knows how to use information from a credit card to buy stuff online.

 

[Radelaide]

If I did that, my mother would kick my ass into my shoulder blades. And I would do the same.

And another thing, why the fuck does a twelve year old have a fucking facebook? I mean, unless he'd signed onto his mothers account (to which I agree with with Zynga and she needs a password) no, 12 year old needs a facebook, iPod, laptop, phone, whatever.

Jesus Christ... There should be a IQ test for the gene pool.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Why would someone pay for something like that?

I think it is something like a collection addiction mixed with jealousy. People or kids see what other people have on their farms, and they see that the other people have things that had to be bought with real money. The kid gets jealous that he or she doesn't have said "cool" graphic/item, so the kid buys it, and probably buys a few other things that he or she sees that the other people don't have, so that he or she's farm looks "better", showing up the other people.
--------
And that amount of money for items, it isn't hard to believe that the boy could have racked up that much of a bill. I said last month in one of the (Blank) Vs Zynga threads of the March Mayhem, that I loosely kept track for six months of all the things that my mom said that could be bought on Farmville with real money, and I figured out that the amount, if a person bought all the special items, came out to be well over a 1000 dollars.

But wait, how often do credit card bills get sent out?(I don't have one) I'm guessing each month. Now all those special items I mentioned, the boy wouldn't have been able to buy all of those, because the are usually limited time for some season or holiday of some such. In actuality, there isn't an incredible amount of special items that can be bought each month. So I am coming to the conclusion that this boy stupidly bought a load of duplicates of each item.

What Zynga needs to do, but I know they won't because they are making way too much money on the way they do things now, is that they need stop charging money for special items and make them available to buy with the fake in-game coins earned from the farming, and then charge a subscription fee like MMOs do. They actually said a while back that they were thinking of doing that, except for the not charging money for special items, which would make them more down right money grubbers than they already are.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

4) A 12 year old with $400 in savings? This kid obviously gets everything he wants, or he wouldn't have just swanned over to Mommy's credit card once he'd blown all that money.

I agree with you on the point that the kid was most likely spoiled and got whatever he wanted. But I don't see the point of the question that a 12 year old had 400 dollars in his savings, though I'm very surprised, with how fast the kid spent that 400 dollars, that he had any money in his savings in the first place. Knowing myself, when I was that age, I probably would have already spent the money on legos and real video/PC games.

But on the 400 dollars in the savings, it isn't hard to believe. I'm 24 now, but when I was a kid, at every birthday and Christmas, along with other gifts I would get money from on my mom's side: My mom, My grandma, and my Aunt and Uncle.(my parents separated when I was young)On my dad's side: My dad, my grandpa, My Aunt and Uncle, and My other Aunt and Uncle. With that and the money I sometimes earned from chores, I easily got more than 400 dollars a year, though I usually ended up spending it all before the year was out. My parents took the mentality that since it was my money, I could do what I wanted with it, though they sometimes would state that they were disappointed in how I spent it. I definitely considered myself spoiled then, but when my own money ran out, I never considered stealing money from my parents.(Though probably because I knew that major wrath would have been brought down upon me.)
With how the boy's mother acted, which felt like a big "Meh", I would say that the kid doesn't know the full force of what true disciplining can bring.

 

[Sparrow]

12-Year-Old Rings Up $1400 Farmville Bill

Just to clarify, why is this in dollars? I'm fairly certain the news report from the Guardian would be in pounds. I understand the majority of the users on this site is American, but you went to all that hassle to change the currency just to appease them? You know that'll really piss off some English people. Including myself. It just shows you really can't be arsed to appease us, instead opting to cop-out and let all your American users avoid spending that two second period of time to work out what that would be in dollars.

 

[Xanthious]

Really Zynga won't refund the money? Color me shocked! The sooner Marc Pincus (and Bobby Kotnick) fall over dead from the most painful ass cancer a vengeful god can muster the better gaming as a whole will be.

 

[Gunner 51]

Then all that is needed is convincing Zynga it is in their best interest to provide security that benefits their customers. Zynga doesn't lose in instances like this.
Considering Zynga's boss has put himself on the same shelf as Activision's Kotnick, one would wonder what tactic might be needed to convince them.

From what little I know about Zynga, they are never in too much of a hurry to modify their games in terms of patches and glitches, so they probably won't put in a security measure. However, if Zynga's popularity suddenly takes a nosedive and the money stops coming in - I think that'd provide one hell of a wake-up call for them.

But until then, I predict it'll be business as usual for them.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I know it's not entirely Zynga's fault, but for a game like that, a responsible company would send an email checking everything was in order after $100 was spent in a month, and I'd suggest that if $500 was spent in a month, or the $100 limit was broken 2 or 3 times, I'd be disabling the account until I could contact the credit card owner to check all was well.

I'm sure there's a few obsessives who would be ok with spending like that, but I imagine the majority of cases that fit my description would be fraudulent in some way.

However I'm also in full agreement with most of the posters here that the kid needs a slap and some lessons in basic economics. Without wanting to sound like an old man, I used to get an allowance of £1-2 a week at his age, and never considered that it wasn't enough. It was just how it was.

Actually having said that, I took some money that wasn't mine once, got found out, and well, lets just say I didn't do it again. No, they didn't beat me, but I learned pretty damn quick.

I think it really helps if kids have some kinda chores to do, for an allowance, it teaches them that work earns money, and that money isn't infinite in the parent's pockets and needs to be dealt with carefully.

 

[Musclepunch]

I bet that kid has a kick ass farm

LoL

Spoiler

That was so good, Im putting the last L in lol with a capital