Ken Levine: Online Abuse Hurts Gamers In The Long Run

Karloff

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Ken Levine: Online Abuse Hurts Gamers In The Long Run

[img_source="http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Ken_Levine" site="Bioshock Wiki"]

Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble any more.

"There are guys who I respect and like who walked away from the space because it's just not worth the trouble any more," says Ken Levine in a Eurogamer interview. "Especially if you've got families and got lives." The David Vonderhaar [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/126385-Update-Fez-Dev-Tells-Media-Member-To-Kill-Himself] over a recent Black Ops 2 patch. "This is why the world often does not take gaming seriously," said Activision community manager Dan Amrich at the time, "this is why gamers are assumed to be immature, whiny assholes." But Levine goes to the heart of the problem: online abuse hurts gamers, in the long run. It forces developers to walk away from gaming, and puts unreasonable pressure on the remainder, by beating them into submission and disenfranchising them.

"The amount of pressure," says Levine. "I'm used to the pressure, but there may be a guy who's not like me, who doesn't have the experience, who will give into that pressure and release something that's not as good." Why get up in the morning and go to work, Levine argues, when you know full well you're only going to get insulted and abused, or have your family threatened? There are many great fans out there, Levine quickly acknowledges, and he always wants to make sure that the product he delivers is what those gamers really will enjoy. But sometimes, he knows, the pressure can get to developers, and that's where the problems start.

It's not as if Levine's going anywhere; he's happy doing what he's doing, and loves his job. But it took him a long time to get to that point. "Everybody's entitled to do what they want to do," he says, "but just like the developer at some point is entitled to say, you know what? It just isn't worth it for me any more." Then gaming loses another creative, and the industry as a whole is the poorer for it.

Source: Eurogamer [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-levine-saddened-by-abuse-directed-at-vonderhaar-and-phil-fish]


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lacktheknack

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I fully endorse this message.

Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.
 

grey_space

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Apr 16, 2012
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Well done Ken Levine. We need more reasoned mature statements like yours in gaming culture.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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These offenders will be seen to by law enforcement yeah? Pardon me for saying this, but couldn't he just report them then ignore them. They're smart guys, they'd know that these vocals are the minority. I saw Jim's presentation in "Go Fish", so I'm not saying anything about being thick skinned, but can they not pay it no heed?
 

SonicWaffle

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Karloff said:
Why get up in the morning and go to work, Levine argues, when you know full well you're only going to get insulted and abused, or have your family threatened?
Because you care? Why do cops bother to get up every day knowing the abuse they're going to face? Presumably because it's what they want to do.

I take his point, and fully agree that abusing people online is unjustified bullshit. The blame lies with the abuser is 99% of cases, not the victim. However, if you're doing a job you love, does it matter that you're getting hate for it if it's what you want to be doing?
 

SonicWaffle

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lacktheknack said:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.
Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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I'm pretty sure it hurts them in the short term too.

I mean, does anyone actually enjoy reading that stuff? I suppose it can be funny if you're sufficiently detached, but personally it mostly makes me grumpy.
 

Teoes

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Jun 1, 2010
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SonicWaffle said:
lacktheknack said:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.
Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.
LTK will doubtless respond to you but I dug it up myself after he mentioned it; I left that thread alone initially without going into the comments.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2

Yeah, it got messy.
 

SonicWaffle

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Teoes said:
SonicWaffle said:
lacktheknack said:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.
Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.
LTK will doubtless respond to you but I dug it up myself after he mentioned it; I left that thread alone initially without going into the comments.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2

Yeah, it got messy.
Fuck-a-doodle-doo, seven pages. Alright, time to put on my exploring helmet and delve deep into the jungles of bile.

Shame really. I read the article PAR linked to on the meta-bombing, and while I could see what the argument was it still made me sad. I've only recently picked of the original Company of Heroes, and it's a really good game. I was hoping the sequel could be enjoyed similarly.
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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I'd rather not see so much abuse either, but unfortunately that's just the way people are. Not the fucking gaming community! People! You think people haven't talked shit when it comes to the other entertainment industry's? Or just anything in general? Looking at the fucking news! Especially FOX news. I'm so sick of these people saying it's just gamers. Yes, there are always jerks out there that should be forced to wear a shock collar, but there is also a lot of people who love you and your work. If you can't deal with online abuse then IGNORE IT! Look for sites that are not so hostile. I always see these people on Twitter and I wouldn't even touch that with a 10 foot poll.

Now that that's out of the way, does he know Fish kept attracting flak and looking for abuse with his bad habbits? Fish is one of those unfriendly people he is talking about. He speaks his mind and puts down other people without thinking about the consequences. He's thrown comments up on Twitter that is only flame bait, nothing clever about it. Really, What the fuck did he expect? I don't want him to leave but he really needs to stop doing the things that keep drawing all the fire to him.

What else can I say? If your going to drop your passion because of some pricks then BYE. It's not going to change, there is too many ignorant and stupid people for that. I can't imagine it slowing down any time soon. Does anyone here think it will ever improve? I'm trying to be realistic here.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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I agree with him... kinda...

Let me elaborate here. What he's saying makes sense, but he ignores the fact that it hurts gamers in the short time too. Now I don't like playing online partially because of the community. If I want to go there and be insulted I could just try to get a job as a telephone salesman.
 

Jutaris

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SonicWaffle said:
Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism,
Criticism isn't what's at issue here, abuse is. One doesn't criticise someone by telling them to die of cancer or in a car crash or what have you. Nobody deserves to be stomped into the ground because they decided to share a creative work that wasn't "Good" enough. Don't like it, sure. Criticise it, that's fine, but maybe? Don't be a dick.
 

SonicWaffle

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Jutaris said:
SonicWaffle said:
Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism,
Criticism isn't what's at issue here, abuse is. One doesn't criticise someone by telling them to die of cancer or in a car crash or what have you. Nobody deserves to be stomped into the ground because they decided to share a creative work that wasn't "Good" enough. Don't like it, sure. Criticise it, that's fine, but maybe? Don't be a dick.
Pretty sure you're quoting the wrong person, here...
 

TiberiusEsuriens

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Jun 24, 2010
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It's a really unfortunate intertwining of two distinct entities. The internet is full of assholes. Gaming is full of really cool and nice people. However, these days games are becoming more and more online, leading the asshole population of gaming to sky-rocket. Every medium normally has the same amount of jerks as any other, but this is a major case of association by proxy.

We've heard "this is why gamers are assumed to be immature, whiny assholes" a lot lately, and the problem is that the internet jerks have been annexed by the gaming community. Until the internet asshole problem is 'fixed' (haha, yeah right) this problem will continue to exist. In other words, we're stuck with this for the rest of forever. The best thing we can do is portray the two entities to be as distinct as possible.
 

lacktheknack

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SonicWaffle said:
lacktheknack said:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.
Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2?page=7

It's locked, so it's got a limited lifespan.

Wait for the Russians to show up, that's where it gets "good".

EDIT: Beaten to my own punch, heh. Oh well.