Ken Levine: Online Abuse Hurts Gamers In The Long Run

[Strazdas]

I never though id say it, but this guy deserves the internet abuse. he is the perfect example of a prick of an internet. basically, her argues that we should ban people like Phil Fish from internet.
And lets all ignore that online abuse does not even come close to real life abuse.....

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Very well put. we need more comments like this.

Average person = asshole

fixed it for you.

you like pvp. you have friends that like pvp. you assume everyone is the same (and stuff like the fact that WoW PvP servers existence somehow means "everyone" wants something akin to EvEs PvP environment) and those that aren't or don't see it like that..."carebears", fools or liars.

I play eve online for 3 years. i think it is the best MMO. i NEVER pvp. Well ok, i had a friendly pvp fight with a corp member, for fun, in a cheap frigate, that cost me nothing.
EVE is a free enviroment, which in some places turn to free PVP emviroment, howeveri f you want to look for PVP scum locust look at Tibia, not Eve. In fact eve PVPers are pretty damn tame in comparison.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I would be far more worried if there weren't dozens or hundreds of new artists chomping at the bit to enter the industry every. single. day.

So the ones who can't deal with pressure get weeded out. If you are doing what you really want to do, you find ways to deal with it like Ken has.

But don't you see, Those new artists are going to see the abuse and leave before they make anything really good or not even get in the game at all.

*tone: mono, steady"

Why bother? No matter what you do you will be abused and threatened. I know a few artists who never even got in because of the 'audience'. Pressure? No that is not what this is, ABUSE. Your kind are as bad as the people who say the rape victim is at fault for being raped. I hold you, and all other enablers of abuse, in the same contempt as them.

 

[mistwolf]

i've played MMOs for over a decade at least and i still dunno what a "carebear" actually is beyond the supposed mortal enemy of the self styled "srs" pvper...

here's the truth (as i see it): the vast majority of the players of the worlds most popular MMO and the estimated 50 odd million players that have passed through it's gates and that could reasonably be considered as "in the market for an MMO" didn't come looking for a game where others fun is conducted at their expense. in wow (yes that's the game) "srs" pvp has ALWAYS been a minority activity.

I know this is a bit old, but no one answered on this, and I thought I would because in many ways it shows your point.

Back when graphical MMOs were just starting to exist on a large scale (MUDs being text based predecessors), one of the Big Names was Ultima Online. As a note it is still going today!

Anyway, when it launched it offered the kind of open world, kill anyone any time, loot their corpses, etc. Almost immediately, roving gank squads became quite popular, going around with no intention other than to just kill people and make their in-game lives as unpleasant as possible.

After a long time of strife and debate and anger, they ultimately decided to split the game. They broke each server into two aspects, Trammel (pve/consensual pvp only) and Felucca, the original ruleset where anything went. You could travel between them and they were not precise mirrors.

Almost immediately the vast, almost overwhelming majority of the player base moved to the pve facet, leaving the gankers and such with no recourse other than name calling and taunting. They adopted the term 'carebear' as a way to emasculate and try to shame people into playing on the pvp facet, but it never accomplished much. Felucca became a barren wasteland, and eventually the gank squads moved onto new targets. Felucca was never really 'safe', but it did become viable to venture there if you were either very talented, very lucky, or very careful.

Since then, the term carebear has maintained as a derogatory goad from PvP players for PvE players, because they feel that PvP is the 'superior' playstyle, requiring more skill and risk. Most people disagree.

While it is true that many people choose to pvp in wow, either consensually through flagging or arenas or whatnot, or non-consensually through pvp servers, it is not really deniable that pve servers make up the bulk of wow subscribers. PVP is still major enough that Blizz doesn't want to cut it, and at this point it would likely not be worth the strife, but PvE is where the main aims of the game are.

Regarding the OT and Phish and such: I agree that Phish was a jerk, and likely gave as much as he got. But cherry picking him as a justification for the fact that the hate pointed at him is pointed as much, or more, to almost any other developer is just silly. And shrugging and blowing off trying to improve things with 'people will always be jerks' is equally reprehensible. Until we expect more of each other, and as a community demand better, no, things won't change. But that doesn't mean we either shouldn't try, to that it won't change if enough of us do try. So Kudos to Levine for speaking up, and more people need to.