Six Hearthstone Cards That Need a Good Nerf
- Thread starter Encaen
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I disagree with all but Ragnaros and possibly Leeroy.
Knife Juggler doesn't need a nerf, because his ability hits a random enemy target. Using the Leeroy example, it's not always guaranteed that the two daggers from Whelps will both hit Leeroy. One might hit the enemy hero, another might hit a different target altogether.
Murloc Warleader doesn't need a nerf, due to being an instant Silence target as soon as he is summoned and being reliant on having other Murlocs on his side of the board to re-coup his cost.
Savage Roar (and Bloodlust, which i'm surprised you didn't put in SR's place) is fine for a similar reason as the Warleader. It requires minions to be on the board to be of any use and most opponents will make sure a druid (or Shaman) has as few minions on the board as humanly possible to remove the threat.
Leeroy is a difficult one, due to requiring the opponent to be ready for him to drop at a moments notice. The only reason most people struggle with him is due to his popularity in aggro decks, which are practically the norm in HS (outside the EU, where Control Druid is the go-to deck at top level, IIRC). Once more cards are added which balance between Aggro and Control better, then Leeroy should cease to be a major issue.
As for Faceless Manipulator...no. He mimics a big, scary thing...but he can't do anything until the following turn. This gives opponents a full turn to deal with it, thereby making it a waste of 5 mana. With the Raggy example, most smart players will attempt to bait a Hex/Poly/Assassinate etc early, especially if they're relying on Ragnaros (or any high-end Legendary) in late game. Your example does also rely on everyone having such a card in their deck which, at the moment, most do. However, if Raggy does get nerfed, then FM might see less use and be seen as less OP.
I'm not sure what Ragnaros needs, possibly a mana cost increase to 9, thereby making it compete with the Dragon Aspects for a spot.
Knife Juggler doesn't need a nerf, because his ability hits a random enemy target. Using the Leeroy example, it's not always guaranteed that the two daggers from Whelps will both hit Leeroy. One might hit the enemy hero, another might hit a different target altogether.
Murloc Warleader doesn't need a nerf, due to being an instant Silence target as soon as he is summoned and being reliant on having other Murlocs on his side of the board to re-coup his cost.
Savage Roar (and Bloodlust, which i'm surprised you didn't put in SR's place) is fine for a similar reason as the Warleader. It requires minions to be on the board to be of any use and most opponents will make sure a druid (or Shaman) has as few minions on the board as humanly possible to remove the threat.
Leeroy is a difficult one, due to requiring the opponent to be ready for him to drop at a moments notice. The only reason most people struggle with him is due to his popularity in aggro decks, which are practically the norm in HS (outside the EU, where Control Druid is the go-to deck at top level, IIRC). Once more cards are added which balance between Aggro and Control better, then Leeroy should cease to be a major issue.
As for Faceless Manipulator...no. He mimics a big, scary thing...but he can't do anything until the following turn. This gives opponents a full turn to deal with it, thereby making it a waste of 5 mana. With the Raggy example, most smart players will attempt to bait a Hex/Poly/Assassinate etc early, especially if they're relying on Ragnaros (or any high-end Legendary) in late game. Your example does also rely on everyone having such a card in their deck which, at the moment, most do. However, if Raggy does get nerfed, then FM might see less use and be seen as less OP.
I'm not sure what Ragnaros needs, possibly a mana cost increase to 9, thereby making it compete with the Dragon Aspects for a spot.
I don't really agree with this list for the most part. Here are my opinions.
Knife Juggler. This is an undoubtedly excellent card. However, the thing with it is that you don't really want to play it too early, because then you won't be able to play other minions on the same turn, and thus won't be the most effective. And when it is played later, it becomes really easy to take out. Plus, it's random nature definitely decreases it's value, although it can make it a little more infuriating. I really don't think nerfing it's attack would change anything, though, because that's not the reason that people play the card.
Murloc Warleader. The thing with this card is in order for it to be effective, you need to already have a decent number of murlocs on the board the turn before you play it. Plus, as soon as it's taken out, all of it's buffs disappear. On top of that, murloc decks really aren't run very much at the moment, so nerfing a crucial part of an already underused deck seems completely unnecessary.
Savage Roar. Yes, the Savage Roar and Force of Nature combo is good, but it definitely isn't better than Pyroblast for the simple fact that it requires two cards as opposed to one, meaning you're less likely to get the combo and you have to invest more into it. Additionally, it can also be slowed down by using taunt, unlike Pyroblast which can only be stopped by Counterspell and Ice Block, both of which aren't used very much and are only available to mage. Finally, using Savage Roar in any other circumstance requires that you have a solid board, in which case you're probably already ahead, making this more of a win more type card. It's still good, don't get me wrong, but it's not blatantly overpowered.
Leeroy Jenkins. Leeroy is for sure annoying to play against. However, looking at it this way, without any other cards buffing him or otherwise interacting with him, he's basically a Fireball with a downside that you can only have one of. And doing anything to synergize with him again requires investing multiple cards into it, lowering the effectiveness. He also is very difficult to keep alive for more than one turn, even discounting the whelps. And Leeroy + Hounds was kind of BS, but with the Hounds nerf I think that it will be prohibitively expensive to get any of the good Hounds combos with Leeroy.
Faceless Manipulator. This will basically always be a good card. However, because he is completely reliant on there being other good cards on the field, making him a situational play. I've had games where I've sat on a Faceless Manipulator for an entire game because there was never a good time to play it. Good card, and can definitely swing games, but I wouldn't really say it needs a nerf.
Ragnaros. I think I'll actually agree with this one. Ragnaros is flat out too good. There are basically only two cards that I can think of that can reliably trade well with him (Mind Control and Big Game Hunter, if you're wondering), because even if you Polymorph or Assassinate him, he's already done the eight damage. I feel like what they should do is either reduce his attack so you don't have to lose a bunch of you're minions to kill him, or, preferably, change his attack so it's at the beginning of your turn, thus giving you're opponent more time to react (I think this change should also be implemented to Ysera). That said, it should be noted that I don't actually see him played nearly as much as I used to, which mostly has to do with the fact that the meta has shifted to a much more earlygame focus, meaning most of the time you're not going to be able to play your big powerful 8-drop.
Also, I want to add that Blizzard should be more willing to buff cards instead of just nerfing. I can understand them wanting to make minimal changes to balance because of how rapidly the metagame changes, but I really feel like a few buffs could really help some of the less played classes, and at the very least give some classes more viable options when it comes to making a deck. Ultimately though, none of this will really matter as soon as they add the next set of cards in, because then everything is going to change.
Knife Juggler. This is an undoubtedly excellent card. However, the thing with it is that you don't really want to play it too early, because then you won't be able to play other minions on the same turn, and thus won't be the most effective. And when it is played later, it becomes really easy to take out. Plus, it's random nature definitely decreases it's value, although it can make it a little more infuriating. I really don't think nerfing it's attack would change anything, though, because that's not the reason that people play the card.
Murloc Warleader. The thing with this card is in order for it to be effective, you need to already have a decent number of murlocs on the board the turn before you play it. Plus, as soon as it's taken out, all of it's buffs disappear. On top of that, murloc decks really aren't run very much at the moment, so nerfing a crucial part of an already underused deck seems completely unnecessary.
Savage Roar. Yes, the Savage Roar and Force of Nature combo is good, but it definitely isn't better than Pyroblast for the simple fact that it requires two cards as opposed to one, meaning you're less likely to get the combo and you have to invest more into it. Additionally, it can also be slowed down by using taunt, unlike Pyroblast which can only be stopped by Counterspell and Ice Block, both of which aren't used very much and are only available to mage. Finally, using Savage Roar in any other circumstance requires that you have a solid board, in which case you're probably already ahead, making this more of a win more type card. It's still good, don't get me wrong, but it's not blatantly overpowered.
Leeroy Jenkins. Leeroy is for sure annoying to play against. However, looking at it this way, without any other cards buffing him or otherwise interacting with him, he's basically a Fireball with a downside that you can only have one of. And doing anything to synergize with him again requires investing multiple cards into it, lowering the effectiveness. He also is very difficult to keep alive for more than one turn, even discounting the whelps. And Leeroy + Hounds was kind of BS, but with the Hounds nerf I think that it will be prohibitively expensive to get any of the good Hounds combos with Leeroy.
Faceless Manipulator. This will basically always be a good card. However, because he is completely reliant on there being other good cards on the field, making him a situational play. I've had games where I've sat on a Faceless Manipulator for an entire game because there was never a good time to play it. Good card, and can definitely swing games, but I wouldn't really say it needs a nerf.
Ragnaros. I think I'll actually agree with this one. Ragnaros is flat out too good. There are basically only two cards that I can think of that can reliably trade well with him (Mind Control and Big Game Hunter, if you're wondering), because even if you Polymorph or Assassinate him, he's already done the eight damage. I feel like what they should do is either reduce his attack so you don't have to lose a bunch of you're minions to kill him, or, preferably, change his attack so it's at the beginning of your turn, thus giving you're opponent more time to react (I think this change should also be implemented to Ysera). That said, it should be noted that I don't actually see him played nearly as much as I used to, which mostly has to do with the fact that the meta has shifted to a much more earlygame focus, meaning most of the time you're not going to be able to play your big powerful 8-drop.
Also, I want to add that Blizzard should be more willing to buff cards instead of just nerfing. I can understand them wanting to make minimal changes to balance because of how rapidly the metagame changes, but I really feel like a few buffs could really help some of the less played classes, and at the very least give some classes more viable options when it comes to making a deck. Ultimately though, none of this will really matter as soon as they add the next set of cards in, because then everything is going to change.
You called Sunwalker a he 
Even outside of WoW the female tauren get ignored.
As far as the article itself, not quite sure I agree with some of those. The game seems fairly balanced. Yeah Knife Juggler is good, and yeah Trump got lucky once with it knifing a Leeroy, but such is the problem when you play a card game with random elements.
Even outside of WoW the female tauren get ignored.As far as the article itself, not quite sure I agree with some of those. The game seems fairly balanced. Yeah Knife Juggler is good, and yeah Trump got lucky once with it knifing a Leeroy, but such is the problem when you play a card game with random elements.
As you say, the Naxx cards are going to change absolutely everything, and I can't wait to see it!ohnoitsabear said:
I'm curious to see whether they focus on balancing Naxx cards to be in line with the core selection, or if they balance core cards to accommodate the Naxx inclusions.
I anticipate at least a handful of balance patches in the months after Naxx hits, since it's so incredibly difficult to truly test balance without seeing what the community at large comes up with.
As to buffs, yeah, there are definitely a lot of cards that could use a good buff. I didn't get into that here simply because there are so many, as compared to those which I felt could use a nerf, which, as you can see, was only six.
D'oh! I've fixed the Sunwalker mention. Sorry about that, and thanks!Alcaste said:You called Sunwalker a he
As far as the article itself, not quite sure I agree with some of those. The game seems fairly balanced. Yeah Knife Juggler is good, and yeah Trump got lucky once with it knifing a Leeroy, but such is the problem when you play a card game with random elements.
As to Leeroy getting knifed, I've suffered through that myself on more than one occasion. But that's not my main problem with the Juggler. My concern is that Knife Juggler's upside is significantly better than any other 3/2 for 2. It's a "one of these is not like the others" situation moreso than "Knife Juggler makes me auto-scoop." Perhaps it would be preferable to buff other 2-drops a hair.
One thing I found with Hearthstone is that Blizzard tends to generally make power = rarity in some regards. Yeah, Knife Juggler is better than Bloodfen Raptor. However, I wouldn't necessarily say it's better than Wild Pyromancer as they have different roles (For example, buffing other two drops...How would you buff wild pyromancer?). it's a vastly different system than Magic: The Gathering has where rarity has less bearing on power in the grand scheme of things. I don't think they can homogenize cards so that they're all balanced in all situations, either. Making knife juggler a 2/2 might work, but... Eh. It's hard to balance things with a random element. Making him only have 3 power suddenly drops him very hard down the list considering his rarity.Encaen said:D'oh! I've fixed the Sunwalker mention. Sorry about that, and thanks!Alcaste said:You called Sunwalker a he
As far as the article itself, not quite sure I agree with some of those. The game seems fairly balanced. Yeah Knife Juggler is good, and yeah Trump got lucky once with it knifing a Leeroy, but such is the problem when you play a card game with random elements.
As to Leeroy getting knifed, I've suffered through that myself on more than one occasion. But that's not my main problem with the Juggler. My concern is that Knife Juggler's upside is significantly better than any other 3/2 for 2. It's a "one of these is not like the others" situation moreso than "Knife Juggler makes me auto-scoop." Perhaps it would be preferable to buff other 2-drops a hair.
Blizzard has the luxury/curse of being able to rebalance cards after release. This is good because when situations like unleash the hounds comes up, they can address it. This is bad because it stifles people from finding ways around the metagame. I will admit though that hearthstone's metagame is very fluid even without intervention.
Given there's a bunch of ways to destroy your opponent when he commits to playing Rag that all cost half his mana cost or less (Polymorph, Hex, Naturalize, Big Game Hunter, Faceless Manipulator, etc.), it can be a huge tempo disadvantage to play him. I know I've won many a game where I BGH'd my opponent's turn 8 rag then played a 4/5 drop on top of it, then swung for lethal next turn with FoN/Savage Roar. Sure, if you don't have an answer he takes over the game, but that can be said for every 8-10 mana card (Hi, Ysera!).
Knife Juggler is good in arena but nowhere else and dies to every conceivable form of removal this side of Mortal Coil/Whilrwind.
Faceless Manipulator is only as good as the cards your opponent plays. If you copy your own creature, you were winning anyway. The only time he's gamebreaking is a situation like above where you Faceless Manip their Rag then BGH it (or shoot it with yours).
Murloc Warleader is fragile and it's fairly easy for nearly every class to prevent Murlocs from getting a big enough board presence for him to matter unless they get the nut draw (in which case they just win, but that can be said for many decks).
Savage Roar is only as good as the number of minions you have on the battlefield. It's pretty easy to keep the board clear or at parity. The combo with FoN is the only thing close to breaking it, but it only works if they have no taunt creatures and you spend your entire turn at 9 mana doing it. It's similar to the Grommash Hellscream/Inner Rage combo in that it's a lot of damage for basically your whole turn, normally saved as a finisher. If anything, by your logic, Bloodlust is better because Shamans have an ability that creates creatures and it gives an even bigger buff.
Shadowstep Leeroy is somewhat borderline, but that's a problem with Shadowstep, not Leeroy. The game really needs a big, dumb haste creature at legendary, and there it is.
Basically, UtH (i.e. the one that already just got nerfed) is the only one on this list that makes any sense. Honorable mentions that you didn't talk about for some reason include Equality, Truesilver Champion (for Arena), Ancient Watcher, Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and Shield Slam. I'm not sure any of those should be nerfed, but they're the ones on the border.
Knife Juggler is good in arena but nowhere else and dies to every conceivable form of removal this side of Mortal Coil/Whilrwind.
Faceless Manipulator is only as good as the cards your opponent plays. If you copy your own creature, you were winning anyway. The only time he's gamebreaking is a situation like above where you Faceless Manip their Rag then BGH it (or shoot it with yours).
Murloc Warleader is fragile and it's fairly easy for nearly every class to prevent Murlocs from getting a big enough board presence for him to matter unless they get the nut draw (in which case they just win, but that can be said for many decks).
Savage Roar is only as good as the number of minions you have on the battlefield. It's pretty easy to keep the board clear or at parity. The combo with FoN is the only thing close to breaking it, but it only works if they have no taunt creatures and you spend your entire turn at 9 mana doing it. It's similar to the Grommash Hellscream/Inner Rage combo in that it's a lot of damage for basically your whole turn, normally saved as a finisher. If anything, by your logic, Bloodlust is better because Shamans have an ability that creates creatures and it gives an even bigger buff.
Shadowstep Leeroy is somewhat borderline, but that's a problem with Shadowstep, not Leeroy. The game really needs a big, dumb haste creature at legendary, and there it is.
Basically, UtH (i.e. the one that already just got nerfed) is the only one on this list that makes any sense. Honorable mentions that you didn't talk about for some reason include Equality, Truesilver Champion (for Arena), Ancient Watcher, Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and Shield Slam. I'm not sure any of those should be nerfed, but they're the ones on the border.
Hmmmm... my choices for "cards to nerf" would be: Flamestrike, Mind Control, and Pyroblast.
"Flamestrike" is just too damn powerful. I know the Mage is all about removal, but four damage against EVERY minion is just too much for that cost. Look at it this way: the Mage's hero power costs two mana and does a maximum of one damage. The "Flamestrike" costs seven mana and does a minimum of four (if you're silly enough to use it on a single minion), a maximum of twenty-eight (in extreme circumstances). At the very least you're unlikely to get less than twelve damage out of a single flamestrike, and potentially much more against minion-heavy decks like the Shaman. There are more balanced ways to get removal.
"Mind Control"... I guess it stops huge buffed minions being played against the Priest, but doesn't "Shadow Word Death" already accomplish that? The priest has so much potential for messing with big strong minions, and "Mind Control" on top of that just seems like overkill.
"Pyroblast"... True story. I went up against a mage as a priest in a ranked match, used "thoughtsteal" to get two of her cards, and got BOTH the mage's pyroblasts. Suffice to say, the game finished pretty hilariously when my healing-centric priest deck never went below twelve health and the mage happily let herself get to a low-health situation in order to keep stacking up minions. It didn't work out very well for her.
Anyway... "Pyroblast". You have to keep your health above ten when facing a mage, or you lose. The fireball is bad enough, but this is just really annoying.
"Flamestrike" is just too damn powerful. I know the Mage is all about removal, but four damage against EVERY minion is just too much for that cost. Look at it this way: the Mage's hero power costs two mana and does a maximum of one damage. The "Flamestrike" costs seven mana and does a minimum of four (if you're silly enough to use it on a single minion), a maximum of twenty-eight (in extreme circumstances). At the very least you're unlikely to get less than twelve damage out of a single flamestrike, and potentially much more against minion-heavy decks like the Shaman. There are more balanced ways to get removal.
"Mind Control"... I guess it stops huge buffed minions being played against the Priest, but doesn't "Shadow Word Death" already accomplish that? The priest has so much potential for messing with big strong minions, and "Mind Control" on top of that just seems like overkill.
"Pyroblast"... True story. I went up against a mage as a priest in a ranked match, used "thoughtsteal" to get two of her cards, and got BOTH the mage's pyroblasts. Suffice to say, the game finished pretty hilariously when my healing-centric priest deck never went below twelve health and the mage happily let herself get to a low-health situation in order to keep stacking up minions. It didn't work out very well for her.
Anyway... "Pyroblast". You have to keep your health above ten when facing a mage, or you lose. The fireball is bad enough, but this is just really annoying.
Knife Juggler is fine. Faerie Dragon, Mad Bomber, Acidic Swamp Ooze and Wild Pyromancer are all competitive alternatives which will be better or worse than Knife Juggler depending on what kind of deck you're building.
Murloc Warleader is fine. Murlocs aren't OP in Arena or Constructed, and why would you compare them with Pirates? Pirates are terrible as a group. Some of them are situationally viable, but I don't agree with gimping Murlocs until they're as bad as Pirates.
Savage Roar merits a nerf. Not only is it too strong (14 damage from hand in a Force of Nature + Savage Roar combo is pretty crazy), it also makes one of Shaman's signature spells, Bloodlust, look pretty mediocre by comparison.
Leeroy merits a nerf. When you compare it with other Neutral Charge minions (Wolfrider, Arcane Golem, Reckless Rocketeer), Leeroy is simply too good at what he does and for what he costs; the borderline abuse cases you correctly point out, of Miracle Rogues with Shadowstep + Cold Blood and Hunters using Leeroy's whelps to their own advantage via Unleash the Hounds, are pretty lame.
Faceless Manipulator: No comment. I haven't used it enough to have an educated opinion about it.
Ragnaros: Disagree. Ragnaros is powerful in a way that is healthy for the game- unlike, say, Alexstrasza, who is the lynchpin of super boring control decks. Besides, Ragnaros has a cheap, popular hard-counter in Big Game Hunter, which is already a big drawback- if anything, I'm more worried about Ysera, who isn't affected by two of the most popular Neutral removal cards (Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight), is about as powerful as Ragnaros, and now doesn't even have to fear Tinkmaster.
In all, not a very good list, Josh. My biggest problem cards in Hearthstone right now are Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus. Taunt is a good ability and you get meaningful tradeoffs between cards like Chillwind Yeti vs. Sen'jin Shieldmasta... but most other Neutral taunt minions are pretty awful- Boulderfist Ogre is just so much better than Lord of the Arena, for instance. This problem is bypassed in that any deck that wants Taunt can just get two Sunfury Protectors and two Defenders of Argus and solve their taunt problem just like that- now everyone can be a Taunt minion! Are you down to 10 life? No worries, just play two Molten Giants and a Sunfury Protector and you've got two Ironbark Protectors for 2 mana!
The versatility and power of Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus kind of renders the choice between Taunt minions and taunt-less minions moot, it dramatically restricts the useful design space for new Taunt minions, and it dumbs down deck construction options with regards to Taunt options.
So yeah, more and better Taunt minions, as well as big nerfs or redesigns to Defender of Argus and Sunfury Protector, would be great for Hearthstone.
Murloc Warleader is fine. Murlocs aren't OP in Arena or Constructed, and why would you compare them with Pirates? Pirates are terrible as a group. Some of them are situationally viable, but I don't agree with gimping Murlocs until they're as bad as Pirates.
Savage Roar merits a nerf. Not only is it too strong (14 damage from hand in a Force of Nature + Savage Roar combo is pretty crazy), it also makes one of Shaman's signature spells, Bloodlust, look pretty mediocre by comparison.
Leeroy merits a nerf. When you compare it with other Neutral Charge minions (Wolfrider, Arcane Golem, Reckless Rocketeer), Leeroy is simply too good at what he does and for what he costs; the borderline abuse cases you correctly point out, of Miracle Rogues with Shadowstep + Cold Blood and Hunters using Leeroy's whelps to their own advantage via Unleash the Hounds, are pretty lame.
Faceless Manipulator: No comment. I haven't used it enough to have an educated opinion about it.
Ragnaros: Disagree. Ragnaros is powerful in a way that is healthy for the game- unlike, say, Alexstrasza, who is the lynchpin of super boring control decks. Besides, Ragnaros has a cheap, popular hard-counter in Big Game Hunter, which is already a big drawback- if anything, I'm more worried about Ysera, who isn't affected by two of the most popular Neutral removal cards (Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight), is about as powerful as Ragnaros, and now doesn't even have to fear Tinkmaster.
In all, not a very good list, Josh. My biggest problem cards in Hearthstone right now are Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus. Taunt is a good ability and you get meaningful tradeoffs between cards like Chillwind Yeti vs. Sen'jin Shieldmasta... but most other Neutral taunt minions are pretty awful- Boulderfist Ogre is just so much better than Lord of the Arena, for instance. This problem is bypassed in that any deck that wants Taunt can just get two Sunfury Protectors and two Defenders of Argus and solve their taunt problem just like that- now everyone can be a Taunt minion! Are you down to 10 life? No worries, just play two Molten Giants and a Sunfury Protector and you've got two Ironbark Protectors for 2 mana!
The versatility and power of Sunfury Protector and Defender of Argus kind of renders the choice between Taunt minions and taunt-less minions moot, it dramatically restricts the useful design space for new Taunt minions, and it dumbs down deck construction options with regards to Taunt options.
So yeah, more and better Taunt minions, as well as big nerfs or redesigns to Defender of Argus and Sunfury Protector, would be great for Hearthstone.
I disagree with all of these. You listed good cards, not cards that need a nerf. None of these cards is dominating the metagame.
UTH on the other hand, was distorting the metagame to the point that hunters were massively overrepresented and all of them played UTH. Not only that, but UTH punishes a basic game mechanic too heavily. Most classes can't play around it or prepare for it at all as the only thing that avoids it is ignoring the board completely and punching face, which only three classes do effectively: micracle rogue, burn mage and weapon warrior (well, and hunters themselves).
Yes, Knife Juggler is arguably the best two-drop in the game. No, that puts him nowhere near nerf-worthy.
What I would like to see instead, is an increase in rarity for some cards. It needs to be far less likely for a mage to have four goddam flamestrikes in arena. And Paladins with 5 truesilver champions should be made to sit on them, point first.
But that wouldn't impact constructed at all. By and large, constructed is in a fine place now that UTH got nerfed. (I would even like to see it nerfed even more, so that it only puts an amount of dogs in play that evens the board; meaning you get one less dog if you put a buzzard down first. It got brought down in casting cost so that hunters have an earlier board clear. It's sad that it's not used as board clear, but as a direct damage spell or card draw.)
UTH on the other hand, was distorting the metagame to the point that hunters were massively overrepresented and all of them played UTH. Not only that, but UTH punishes a basic game mechanic too heavily. Most classes can't play around it or prepare for it at all as the only thing that avoids it is ignoring the board completely and punching face, which only three classes do effectively: micracle rogue, burn mage and weapon warrior (well, and hunters themselves).
Yes, Knife Juggler is arguably the best two-drop in the game. No, that puts him nowhere near nerf-worthy.
What I would like to see instead, is an increase in rarity for some cards. It needs to be far less likely for a mage to have four goddam flamestrikes in arena. And Paladins with 5 truesilver champions should be made to sit on them, point first.
But that wouldn't impact constructed at all. By and large, constructed is in a fine place now that UTH got nerfed. (I would even like to see it nerfed even more, so that it only puts an amount of dogs in play that evens the board; meaning you get one less dog if you put a buzzard down first. It got brought down in casting cost so that hunters have an earlier board clear. It's sad that it's not used as board clear, but as a direct damage spell or card draw.)
The randomness of the juggler makes it hard to play in consistent controll decks. And besides I'll pretty much play oozes over juglers every day of the weak because I generally struggle against warriors and paladins and in more then half of the cases your 2 drop will get immediatly traded anyway.
Long story short it's situational and the pure fact that it's random will make pretty much any nerf rendering it unplayable.
Leeroy only appears a bit crazy in miracle rogue shadowstep cold blood crazyness decks, and the hunter/unleash combo. on it's own it's just a wacky removal with potential of pushing a finisher.
rag, well, strong but since you will always run into controll warriors and druids, every deck will need big removal in some way.
I think only cards that every deck has to play (like the old novice engineer) should be nerfed because if it is manditory you might as well remove it and have more variety. And the razors edge is thin, in general experience most cards that got nerfed even slightly dropped completely off the grid. I think only defender of argus remains a staple even after it's nerf. I might have overlooked some.
Long story short it's situational and the pure fact that it's random will make pretty much any nerf rendering it unplayable.
Leeroy only appears a bit crazy in miracle rogue shadowstep cold blood crazyness decks, and the hunter/unleash combo. on it's own it's just a wacky removal with potential of pushing a finisher.
rag, well, strong but since you will always run into controll warriors and druids, every deck will need big removal in some way.
I think only cards that every deck has to play (like the old novice engineer) should be nerfed because if it is manditory you might as well remove it and have more variety. And the razors edge is thin, in general experience most cards that got nerfed even slightly dropped completely off the grid. I think only defender of argus remains a staple even after it's nerf. I might have overlooked some.
As a Mage main I have to say that Flamestrike is actually really, really easy to play around. Does she have cards? Does she have 7 mana? (6 + Coin if she went second) Limit the amount of minions you play as much as possible and for the love of god don't overcommit and drop your entire hand at once... She will eventually be forced to play it on two sub optimal minions out of necessity or pure frustration. Pyroblast is too mainstream anyway, you want to look out for the 12 damage double Fireball. Also if you use Spell Power as an excuse just no. I expect everyone to instantly destroy any Spell Power minions a Mage plays, you do not let that shit live.TheMadDoctorsCat said:
Anything that costs 10 mana is sort of a risk in and of itself, it's why I replaced Mind Control with Ysera. Yay you've just taken a decent minion, oh wait no nevermind he just played a better minion and probably was holding onto a removal card for this very moment. Best card 10/10.
I'm playing a load of Priest right now and the theme is battlecry heals and soft mind control (1 Cabal Shadow Priest and 1 Mind Control Tech) with a side of not scum. No DS/IF combo, no Northshires, no fucking card clones and no Mind Control. I'm attempting to bring some decency back to the Priest playing community singlehandedly.
OT: Eh, I have been having trouble with Knife Jugglers lately but I wouldn't say they need a nerf. Doggies can still fuck off, It have to use my aforementioned anti Flamestrike minion limit but even that isn't concrete when he has enough mana to drop everything with a Hyena. Nerf a Murloc? Murloc decks are terrible as long as your deck has a hint of mid/lategame and/or board clear and you don't get a totally awful opening hand.
If you're worried about Rag just run a Big Game Hunter. I have no idea why people don't make him standard in every deck, he is fucking godlike lategame and Faceless? Really? I mean I can have 3 Etherial Arcanists down in my Secret Mage deck but it's their fault that they didn't shut down a stacking creature immediately. It's not that those cards are overpowered it's that they're sort of difficult to play around. I've never really been scared of Rag in my life, between Leeroy, Polymorph, Big Game, SW
and god knows how many other removal spells there are he can be dealt with. Mostly just use Big Game Hunter though... God I love that man.
Am I missing something but how is having a single BGH in your deck such a bad move against a Hunter or Warlock? I don't particularly pay close attention to the meta but people do tend to play big cards at some point in the game (again Rag.) He's even a failsafe if something like a Hyena gets too big, something that can happen instantly because lol Doggies. It's only one card in 30 so even if he's not the best in that particular matchup you have another 29 cards to use. Hunter and Warlock aren't the only things played (buff something Paladin, I dare you) and I never really have trouble with Warlocks anyway. Well maybe that's because all of them are playing Murloc decks and they are really freaking bad. I hit around 10/15hp on average then manage to get leverage and wipe the board and a Murloc deck can't continue to function once it gets shut down once.Zato-1 said:
