15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[feycreature]

Flat out murder would be difficult to argue. If either premeditation or proper mens rea had been proven, I doubt the case would have been dismissed. Manslaughter seems like a somewhat more appropriate term though, with some allowance for both the kid's age and what sounds like a lot of previous (long-term bullying) and immediate (being followed partway home and then punched in the back of the head) trauma. Plus whatever additional charges for carrying a concealed weapon. Then again, I'm thinking of Canadian law and I don't think we have an equivalent of "Stand Your Ground." We do have self-defense clauses in most of the assault laws (I'm pretty sure. I'm not a lawyer).

Emotionally/morally/intuitively though, I can simplify it down to this: it's not ok the one kid was bullied. It's not ok the other kid was stabbed. Nothing about this situation is ok or justifiable or deserved. Much as I'd like to feel better about the situation because it was resolved or through rationalizing awful behaviour from one of two messed up kids, this is not a win on any level, just a crappy situation that ended horribly.

 

[Mediteral]

I have no sympathy for the dead kid. It'll certainly teach him not to do that again, and that there are often unexpected consequences to being a bully.

wow, did you seriously just write that?

Yes, yes he did. The truth hurts but when you're the constant victim of bullying of people who are bigger, stronger, and have their own backups jerkoffs constantly bullying you, you wouldn't feel sympathy for them either

 

[Negatempest]

Personally, I see a lack of information given to feel sorry for the bully. Do we know how long the victim was bullied before he retaliated; days, months, years? Do we know that the boy carried the knife specifically for the bully or for self defense just in case he may get mugged going back home? Knife laws very from city to city, county to county and state to state. Some knives are legal to have for the purpose of self defense. Or are some of us so disillusioned about reality that nothing wrong can happen to anyone at all without some cause? Sometimes shit happens to people who do not deserve it and that bully is not one of them.

 

[knhirt]

I don't get 'fired up' because people don't share my views.

Your view is that every 'bullying' must ultimately lead to a 'fatal confrontation' where the protagonist must face a gang of bullies that does want to kill him, gang is offensive, hero is defensive, leader attacks, hero pulls his trusty dagger under the stress of it and slays the evil-doer!

I love a story that features an underdog, but seriously? [author insertion] defeats his childhood bully [McAttacker] and totally justifies [extermination of personal bully]

You know you're running out of points to make when you put words into people's mouths. I can play along, though: Your view is that people who want to torment and bully other people are free to do so without any repercussions.

Seriously though, if this situation had been taken care of by the parents and school faculty involved, this wouldn't have happened. Every bullying (why the apostrophes above? Do you not believe this was a case of bullying?) should ultimately end with the bullies getting reprimanded and taught sensible behavior, but that doesn't always happen, or even work. Sometimes, the victims do need to strike back, and if that occasionally ends with the death of the bullies (especially in cases like this one, where the bully knew his victim was equipped with a deadly weapon), I won't shed any tears.

When the responsibility of dealing with situations like these fall upon the shoulders of the victims, the results are very rarely good. Better then, that the bullies are the ones to lose their lives and not the victims themselves.

 

[SanguineScale]

I'm glad he fought back against the bully. But stabbing him 11 times? That's just a little too much...

Says "Ms. Pinkamena" here

I find irony in such odd locations...

 

[Lunar Templar]

if he'd stabbed him once, I'd buy self defense even up to 3 times for heat of the moment

11 times??

IT
WAS
COLD BLOODED
MURDER

end of story

 

[SanguineScale]

I feel really sorry for this kid. Not just for how he was treated. That was horrible in and of itself. I don't know about you guys, but at that age, if I happened to kill another person out of anger, even if they were tormenting me endlessly, I don't think I'd be able to take it very well. Having to see his mother shed tears over a shallow grave. Knowing you put an end to a life that could have had a lot of potential (Well, maybe as a bully, limited potential). And, above all, knowing that you were legally punished in no way, shape, or form. I'd go nuts.
And trying to live the rest of my life with that kind of mental burden? Jesus....

But, eh, maybe I'm just a wimp or something....

 

[TacticalShoe]

if he'd stabbed him once, I'd buy self defense even up to 3 times for heat of the moment

11 times??

IT
WAS
COLD BLOODED
MURDER

end of story

I feel like it would have been murder if he had simply stabbed the bully right off the bat without being provoked.

And really, how can anyone know what they would do in a situation like that? I've never been involved in anything like that, so I don't feel like I can levy judgement on the kid without getting more information.

 

[Jovip]

Psychological bable aside, i have no issues with things like this occurring. just one less idiot breathing my air.

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I hope they at least took the kid to therapy or something. Just like with animals, it's serious if someone kills a human. We need to make sure he doesn't do it again, now that he's gotten a taste for man-blood.
And you gotta feel sorry for the bully. Getting what you deserve is a bit harsh when you're that young. He's never going to get to learn his lesson now.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

if he'd stabbed him once, I'd buy self defense even up to 3 times for heat of the moment

11 times??

IT
WAS
COLD BLOODED
MURDER

end of story

not really what you have to remember here is that we have a massive lack of information here. if this is a case of a 90 pound weakling going up against a much larger gang banger we think differently.

if the victim was mentally impaired or legitimately feared for his life then we start to think differently.

but if this was a case of the big mouth trying (for once) to back up his words then you suddenly become 'correct'.

it all comes down to a lack of information.

 

[yundex]

Oh my god. FUCKING GOD. There are really people in this thread that are condemning the kid for defending himself. Sometimes I really hate this website, I really fucking do

 

[BarbaricGoose]

At the risk of sounding like I don't care that a child just lost his life, good on you, Florida. I do care, but if he wasn't such an asshole, he wouldn't be dead right now. I don't know whether his parents or school failed him, but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who spent their time making life miserable for everyone else.

11 stabs was excessive, but this kid was fearing for his life. If someone you're afraid of says, I don't know, "I'm gonna kill you," you're probably gonna believe them--especially if you're young. This kid was tortured, scared, and probably backed into a corner (which tends to be when people are most dangerous.) He got sick of it, and decided to defend himself. Can you blame him?

I'd say that there are better ways, but for a kid? I'm not sure. Obviously the schools do nothing about bullying, and talking to his parents wouldn't do anything, either. You think if the bully got scolded one more time he'd reform his ways? No. He'd just be pissed he got told on, and take that rage out on kids like Jorge.

 

[mike1921]

if he'd stabbed him once, I'd buy self defense even up to 3 times for heat of the moment

11 times??

Personally I think that's totally reasonable given the fear he probably had. Quite frankly people snap and I can't say I am even slightly disheartened by that scumbag's death, in fact I am glad one kid like that is dead.

 

[Lunar Templar]

lack of info

lack of info

first off, shoe, i like your name, it makes me giggle

second of all, lack of info or not, it was not self defense at 11 stab wounds, i hardly see how getting more information on it will change anything. the other kid wasn't armed according to the article, this was way beyond what would have been need to quell the situation even with violence. just bounce the guy's head off a hard flat surface. shit worked real good for getting people to back off in my day.

Oh my god. FUCKING GOD. There are really people in this thread that are condemning the kid for defending himself. Sometimes I really hate this website, I really fucking do

has something to do with stabbing the guy 11 times, there's a point it stops being self defense and that's pretty much it

 

[Zeema]

I don't care whats so ever but thats because i rekon the Kid was in the right. I wouldn't even care if he killed the kid, the Bully picked on a kid for jollies and he got hurt.

its like if someone died after poking a bear im not goin feel sorry for him cuz he is a idiot

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

I once was pushed into stowing a knife away, just on the one day, when death threats had been made against me, and no one would help. Absolutely no one listened, and told me to stop being stupid. I had to do something to ready myself for the worst, the guy was, and is, deranged. He's spontaneously violent, collects knives, and prone to fits of extreme emotion. In this case he believed it was my fault his girlfriend had left him. In truth his girlfriend left him because she was afraid of him; always breaking into tears and threatening to kill himself, and later, me. So I armed myself.

It still makes me nauseas. I remember moving through school, knowing it was there. It made me feel like a bad person, because of how the media was, at the time, in a fury about knife crime. Sometimes years of bullying culminates to a point where you genuinely fear for your life, and all too often, no one believes you when you tell them how serious it is.

I managed to escape him that day, and was then protected by seclusion for a few weeks. I didn't return with the knife, but I rushed from place to place for a few weeks after that, barley waiting for friends. Would I have used it? Possibly, if he'd brought a weapon, as I was to understand he was to do. Nothings certain though. I'm thankful it never came too it. He ended up fucking his way through his Myspace friends, and forgot about me after a time.

Anyway... on topic.

He should have been made to receive counselling, with the possibility of detention in a mental health facility if he was considered likely to be a threat to others; after proper psychological examination.

We don't know where the stab wounds were, in what series they occurred, and how deep each stab wound is. It's possible you could stab someone 11 times very quickly. It seems the communities impression is that each was purposeful and thought about, for longer than it took for his brain to tell his arm to move. I can't say, and the witnesses are not reliable; there is a strong possibility the majority are biased in favour of Nuno, as bullies often maintain a greater "friend" base, many of whom are passive or active bullies themselves.

Bullies don't deserve to be sentenced to death, any just system of justice adheres to this. In fact, I'd argue that it's only suitably in extremely rare cases, that would take considerable deliberation by an ethics board. However, this was not synonymous with a trial, this was an assault, and Saavedra had very few options. He chose to defend himself and his aggressor sadly died. As far as I can tell, there is no necessity for Saavedra to go to prison for this. The prison system in America makes good people criminals, and Saavedra does not sound like a bad or dangerous person. Not any more than most of us are dangerous.

This is a very sad case, and my condolences go out to the family of Dylan.

 

[yundex]

lack of info

lack of info

first off, shoe, i like your name, it makes me giggle

second of all, lack of info or not, it was not self defense at 11 stab wounds, i hardly see how getting more information on it will change anything. the other kid wasn't armed according to the article, this was way beyond what would have been need to quell the situation even with violence. just bounce the guy's head off a hard flat surface. shit worked real good for getting people to back off in my day.

Oh my god. FUCKING GOD. There are really people in this thread that are condemning the kid for defending himself. Sometimes I really hate this website, I really fucking do

has something to do with stabbing the guy 11 times, there's a point it stops being self defense and that's pretty much it

Do you realize it's perfectly legal in to use deadly force in self defense in florida when you're punched in the back of the head out of nowhere? In most of America really. I'd have stabbed the ************ 20 times, and dared his friends to step in.

 

[thedeathscythe]

This is a weird thing to choose sides on...on one hand, I want to side with the kid that was bullied, because he stood up for himself, but on the other hand, he killed the kid for it. You can stand up for yourself without murdering someone, and you can go to adults to step in if it comes to the point that extreme violence like this is an answer. Alternatively, I'm sort of a sucker for karma, and while I don't follow Buddhism or anything besides Thalos, I kind of feel like this kid had it coming. Sure, he didn't deserve it this bad, but karma has a funny way of messing with you (so does Thalos).