Left 4 Dead 2: The Boycott: The Visit: The Aftermath: The Interview

[Andy Chalk]

Left 4 Dead 2: The Boycott: The Visit: The Aftermath: The Interview

Andy Chalk gets the scoop on the L4D boycotters and their trip to Valve.

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[The_root_of_all_evil]

Andy Chalk still hasn't bought Left 4 Dead.

Andy Chalk took long enough to buy TF2 and he still hasn't logged onto melee night.

 

[Walking_Target]

Why get TF2 when you can have Peggle Extreme?

I enjoyed talking with Andy and explaining our actual position. The unfortunate thing is that some of the more... vocal folks are also the ones who disparage Valve at every turn. Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

 

[Sixties Spidey]

I think Valve should've just put everyone on L4D2 boycott lists on ban lists to prevent them from buying or playing any form of the game. Demo or otherwise. That'd be pretty epic!

 

[Arbitrary Cidin]

I still think the real problem is that Valve was so quick to jump on a sequel for L4D (Which I honestly thought was the fourth installment of a game made popular before my time) when you consider how long it took for sequels to Half Life and Team Fortress to be made.

 

[richtaur]

"we owe these guys a thanks"

Sorry, don't agree. I guess these guys have been more mature than your average hate group, but if they've made progress for the community or opened an avenue for better customer->developer communication, that's just because Valve cares, not because these guys did anything special.

Part of me thinks whiners shouldn't be awarded simply for whining. I for one am THRILLED about the pending L4D2 release (I've already paid for it in full), and I'm really glad it's THIS YEAR instead of MANY YEARS from now.

 

[Doug]

Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

Can you link to these promises? I've heard alot of boycotters stating that, but frankly, I've never seen any of them expand on the point and show what was promised.

 

[Doug]

I still think the real problem is that Valve was so quick to jump on a sequel for L4D (Which I honestly thought was the fourth installment of a game made popular before my time) when you consider how long it took for sequels to Half Life and Team Fortress to be made.

Yeah, this does seem to be the root of the bile; Valve haters (like the long gone head of the 'Sony Defence Force') suddenly had ammo they could use, and people who'd gotten to used to Valve going WAY above and beyond for the PC gamers suddenly got the impression they were being cheated of their free stuff.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Wait... is that the actual walking_target? And if it is, I think Valve has done enough to "support" the boycotters and trying to do as much as they can to continue to support Left 4 Dead. They are obviously not giving up on Left 4 Dead.

It just blows my mind how you could get that upset over someone offering a sequel...

On top of that, Valve doesn't owe any of us anything. Think about all the games that have actually been not supported since the sequel came out. Once Gears of War 2 came out, absolutely nothing has been done with Gears of War 1. Left 4 Dead is going to be supported long after it's sequel, much like Team Fortress 2 continues to get updates.

And if you're not the real Walking_Target, please ignore this post.

 

[Walking_Target]

I think Valve should've just put everyone on L4D2 boycott lists on ban lists to prevent them from buying or playing any form of the game. Demo or otherwise. That'd be pretty epic!

And it would be helping the community so that they could stay true to their goals. Seems reasonable to me.

Swing and a miss guys.

We're boycotting L4D2 because of the poor support for L4D. What if L4D2 has a bunch of bugs/exploits at release? you would want those taken care of in a timely fashion, right? How would you feel if months later, various problems that had been there since day one were still present?

It shouldn't be so hard to understand; We want L4D's bugs and exploits fixed, first and foremost, followed by the content that the guys at Valve said was comming to L4D? They said that new weapons, enemies, campaigns, characters and etc. would be comming.

Heck, TF2 gets almost weekly patches for bugs and exploits. We're just asking Valve to fix known issues and release some new content like they said that they would, way back at the release of L4D. It is in no way unreasonable to expect a product to be supported in the manner that the developer of that product said it would be.


That being said, I personally think that Valve will live up to what they have said and support L4D in the manner they had said they would. I'm not giving up until they show that they are actually doing so though. It's called follow through, and it's the responsible thing to do.

Once Valve has followed through on the bug fixes and content (and only after such support) I would encourage other members of the boycott to purchase the new game because it did play well.

 

[Walking_Target]

Double Post

 

[Walking_Target]

Wait... is that the actual walking_target? And if it is, I think Valve has done enough to "support" the boycotters and trying to do as much as they can to continue to support Left 4 Dead. They are obviously not giving up on Left 4 Dead.

It just blows my mind how you could get that upset over someone offering a sequel...

On top of that, Valve doesn't owe any of us anything. Think about all the games that have actually been not supported since the sequel came out. Once Gears of War 2 came out, absolutely nothing has been done with Gears of War 1. Left 4 Dead is going to be supported long after it's sequel, much like Team Fortress 2 continues to get updates.

And if you're not the real Walking_Target, please ignore this post.

Really, if Valve made a claim that they would be providing "Team Fortress 2 like support" and *any* copies of L4D were sold based on that claim, they do owe the community something.

If you want to get into the legal bits and pieces, it's called 'False Advertising' or with the sequel on the way, perhaps 'Bait and Switch'. If you sell something based on an advertised expectation and you fail to follow through on it, you are liable.

Also.

Left 4 Dead is going to be supported long after it's sequel, much like Team Fortress 2 continues to get updates.

Valve claimed that they were supporting the game in a certain manner, not us. Valve has so far failed to follow through on their claim. They probably will follow through, but the fact still remains that they have not done so thus far and that there is a sequel in the works. The analogy that you made between gears of war and gears of war 2 is the exact reason many people are up in arms and so wary of L4D2.

 

[Pawzilla]

The problem with the L4D2 boycott is the idea of how many people are actually willing to boycott the game.

Though the group has around 40,000 members, how many are dedicated to the cause? If you look at any of their news posts, they get up to, at most, 100 posts. Sure, they have comments on their page upwards of 9,000, but many don't really deal with want to boycott.

You note how this shows that a community can organize, but the problem is, I question how many people are dedicated to the group, and how many are just joining it on a whim, or joining it because their friends tell them to.

Either way, interesting article.

 

[Walking_Target]

Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

Can you link to these promises? I've heard alot of boycotters stating that, but frankly, I've never seen any of them expand on the point and show what was promised.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3170080

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891994


Here's the quote from 1up.com

It really feels like we're in this transition between entertainment as this packaged-goods phenomenon and entertainment as an ongoing service. TF2 is our product that's furthest along down this path -- we've been doing these updates every four to six weeks where we release new maps, new Achievements, new unlockables, new weapons, the movies like "Meet The Sniper," and so on. The response has been very strong. Each time we've done it, our multiplayer numbers and our sales have gone up by about 20 percent. So it's a way of growing an audience and developing an audience -- having those regular releases and thinking more of yourself as providing ongoing content streams seems to work really well. We fully intend to do that with Left 4 Dead as well -- [make] movies about each of the characters and how they came together as a team; what happened with the world when everything became Infected; [and] release new characters, new weapons, new campaigns -- and just view it as an ongoing audience-development content stream.

 

[FistsOfTinsel]

Here's the real lesson to take away from this: Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw are the minds behind the most bitter & creative gaming website of all time: oldmanmurray.com. But they were interesting enough and smart enough that Valve eventually gave them jobs. If those hordes of internet whiners can actually produce something entertaining as a result of their hostility, they may wind up with a sweet gig like Chet & Erik as well.

 

[Moving Target]

I'm seriously ashamed to bear a similar steam friends name to the boycot administrator Walking_Target. He's only confined to 1 speed unlike me though

 

[JugglerPanda]

Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

Can you link to these promises? I've heard alot of boycotters stating that, but frankly, I've never seen any of them expand on the point and show what was promised.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3170080

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=891994


Here's the quote from 1up.com

It really feels like we're in this transition between entertainment as this packaged-goods phenomenon and entertainment as an ongoing service. TF2 is our product that's furthest along down this path -- we've been doing these updates every four to six weeks where we release new maps, new Achievements, new unlockables, new weapons, the movies like "Meet The Sniper," and so on. The response has been very strong. Each time we've done it, our multiplayer numbers and our sales have gone up by about 20 percent. So it's a way of growing an audience and developing an audience -- having those regular releases and thinking more of yourself as providing ongoing content streams seems to work really well. We fully intend to do that with Left 4 Dead as well -- [make] movies about each of the characters and how they came together as a team; what happened with the world when everything became Infected; [and] release new characters, new weapons, new campaigns -- and just view it as an ongoing audience-development content stream.

The key word in that last sentence is "intend". Valve happened to change their intentions by adding elements to the game that would change it greatly in the form of a sequel, since the game couldn't really support all of that as DLC. Valve is most likely going to fulfill their previously stated intentions in Left 4 Dead 2, in which case you're going to limit yourself from buying the product that caught your attention to begin with.

 

[Walking_Target]

I'm seriously ashamed to bear a similar steam friends name to the boycot administrator Walking_Target. He's only confined to 1 speed unlike me though

Don't worry, I'm ashamed of you too