Left 4 Dead 2: The Boycott: The Visit: The Aftermath: The Interview

[Walking_Target]

I for one, bought L4D because of the support that Valve said was comming. So did a lot of other people in the boycott. Most reviewers even commented on the light amount of content in the game.

As for your other comments, I won'd deny that the group did not start out with the clearest set of goals at the outset, for about the first week. Once we had more folks on board we channeled things into what the real concerns for the majority of the members are and went from there.

Also, sorry to hear that some of your friends/family didn't want to buy a product that has thus far been supported poorly, maybe you'll have more luck getting them interested after some DLC/Bug fixes come.

Best of luck getting them involved with L4D2.

 

[samsonguy920]

The problem with the L4D2 boycott is the idea of how many people are actually willing to boycott the game.

Though the group has around 40,000 members, how many are dedicated to the cause? If you look at any of their news posts, they get up to, at most, 100 posts. Sure, they have comments on their page upwards of 9,000, but many don't really deal with want to boycott.

You note how this shows that a community can organize, but the problem is, I question how many people are dedicated to the group, and how many are just joining it on a whim, or joining it because their friends tell them to.

Either way, interesting article.

And how many are skewing the message, thinking this is just an excuse for a hate party? I cheer for Valve for doing this, and Walking_Target standing on his message, because it has legitimacy. Those who are in the group who just wanna say 'I hate Valve!' don't have legitimacy. Don't let the haters skew what you know about the boycott group. I am not a member, but I respect their position.

The key word in that last sentence is "intend". Valve happened to change their intentions by adding elements to the game that would change it greatly in the form of a sequel, since the game couldn't really support all of that as DLC. Valve is most likely going to fulfill their previously stated intentions in Left 4 Dead 2, in which case you're going to limit yourself from buying the product that caught your attention to begin with.

So you didn't read anything of the article or Walking_Target's responses in this forum? Valve has stated that it will support Left4Dead, and not just by releasing Left4Dead 2. That would be like saying, 'I will support your computer that you spent $800 on with a new computer that will cost $1000.' That's poor investment tactics which would kill sales of either game. W_T is doing what he can to keep Valve honest, which might be unnecessary but I like having someone that cares enough to take the time, even if its just for a game. (Cause right now L4D is my crack cocaine.)

 

[Moving Target]

I'm seriously ashamed to bear a similar steam friends name to the boycot administrator Walking_Target. He's only confined to 1 speed unlike me though

Don't worry, I'm ashamed of you too

now i feel bad for writting that... didn't really mean to sound disrespectful :S wasn't exactly thinking "internet is not random private thoughts place". don't normaly try to say anything like that out loud, but i can't help but feel betrayal towards Valve from boycotters. they've never majorly dissapointed before and i'm holding true to my faith in them, which is why i won't support a boycott.

good luck anyway with your cause. a discount for L4D owners would be a good idea i'll admit, but i'm buying anyway, discount or no.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

-snip-

All the claims that you stated above HAVE been fulfilled. They DID add a new level and they're adding another one soon. If I remember correctly, Valve is releasing new DLC soon and said there's more to come after that. My Gears of War analogy doesn't prove anything for you, seeing as they didn't release any DLC during the Gears 2 production. The only thing they said that they even intended on doing that they didn't was make videos about each of the characters. That's really not important at all.

If you wanted added story, Left 4 Dead 2 is supposed to have more of a story element to it. Left 4 Dead 2 is so different of a game that there is no way that they could have added this as DLC to the first one without changing the game as a whole.

 

[Walking_Target]

Where are the new weapons and infected then?

 

[Citrus]

All of this for a $50 game. It's pathetic. It really is. There comes a point in every drawn-out protest-like endeavor where it becomes more about attention than the goal, and this boycott passed that point a long time ago.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Why get TF2 when you can have Peggle Extreme?

I enjoyed talking with Andy and explaining our actual position. The unfortunate thing is that some of the more... vocal folks are also the ones who disparage Valve at every turn. Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

Oh. Well, that's somewhat more legitimate than I had thought the boycott was, but it still strikes me as whining over a company which already supports their products far beyond the point most companies do because they're supporting one slightly less, although still more than most companies. Still, better than the people who claim to hate Valve now because they aren't quite living up to the outrageously high standards they set for themselves.

Where are the new weapons and infected then?

I'm sorry, but that strikes me as splitting hairs, almost like you're browsing the original pre-L4D hype specifically to find things to hate. It is entirely possible that those were simply the aspirations that Valve had, which they then found out would be really hard to add as DLC. Frankly, between that and the new AI Director, I see more than enough reason to have a sequel.

All of the above said, I have some respect for you. At least your reasons to protest seem thought out, and not too unreasonable, and you seem to be admirably sticking to your conviction. I still think you're holding Valve to an unbelievably high standard though, far higher than you would set for another company.

 

[quiet_samurai]

I think if someone doesn't like the way a company handles their product they should either try and get a job there to make changes, start their own company, or shut the fuck up and not be such babies. Taking it upon yourself to try and get a business to give you what you want is ascenine and juvenile, and shows you are too immature to handle disappointment. The world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[DemonJester13]

L4D boycotts are for underdeveloped boys.

 

[Pawzilla]

I think if someone doesn't like the way a company handles their product they should either try and get a job there to make changes, start their own company, or shut the fuck up and not be such babies. Taking it upon yourself to try and get a business to give you what you want is ascenine and juvenile, and shows you are too immature to handle disappointment. The world doesn't revolve around you.

You're right in some aspects, but I don't think you outrightly bashing them is justified either.

Valve is a gaming company, and as such their main concern is us, gamers/consumers, as such, to keep consumers, you make statements and promises that should be followed through on. You're saying that we, the consumer, shouldn't whine at companies for their decisions, but we are the consumer, the one buying their product, and as such we have a right to express our opinions on their product. The Boycott group has legitimate reasons for concern, and it's nice that Valve took note of this and made an attempt to address these concerns.

And yes, it is true that as consumers we can choose not to buy their product, but that doesn't exactly help out the company at all so, yeah.

Valve did state that they would provide numerous updates for L4D, and so far only one DLC pack is being made. In the 10 months the game has been out, that seems a little lacking.

It was a bad move on their part to say, "Hey, rather than at least work a little bit on new L4D content, lets just make a new game engine with more stuff." The fact that they decided to immediately work on a sequel, and announce it just 7 months after the original game's release is a little bit absurd.

I'm not saying it's wrong, and it's completely up to them in their decision to make a sequel, it just seems like they were less concerned with the community and more concerned about just making a game.

Anyway, no, I don't agree with a boycott against L4D2 but still, their concerns are real, and should not be put down as being a bunch of whiny kids.

To just bash the group without saying anything to back yourself up, or to not even argue their concerns are illegitimate, is being even more whiny.

 

[tyrkae]

I joined the boycott not cause i dont want l4d2 to come out because i want them to fix the problems with l4d1 and to have the 2 other maps we were promised (filling the gaps between maps like crash coarse is doing) and to get some new weapons i would like to see maybe an extra SI but its not a big deal if i dont i think L4D and L4D2 will be diffrent enough that both games will stil be played still cant wait for l4d2 and as soon as i can get it off steam im buying it!!!

 

[syndicated44]

When I read they sent two people to their headquarters I thought "hey thats really cool of them, I cant imagine this boycott really going on much further". Hearing this however I am kinda scared as to what some of these boycotters would be willing to do.

Overall if their demands arent being met let them continue boycotting. I still have yet to give L4D the time of day. To me if the valve wants to do something let them do it. Im still waiting for these stinking half-life episodes to get over so we can move on in life and potentially see a half-life 3 in my lifetime.

 

[nonW00t]

This whole boycott business has been great entertainment, so I thank them for that. Free advertising is a good thing. lol Anyway, video gamers with ideals, that is funny. Maybe they should have put their money into something other than games if the real complaint is having to buy a new "sequel" so soon, I guess these "gamers" don't buy games often? Even if Valve did actually plan to abandon L4D 1 in Nov. 2009, how many games do you have that you really play a year later? Yes, I thought that many. Well at least it will mean less congested servers for the rest of us on L4D 2. he-ha!

 

[Anarchemitis]

People seek radical solutions even if they aren't the best, in a situation of despiration. Or if the people in question feel despired.

 

[junkmanuk]

...Meanwhile the bulk of our membership really just want's Valve to fix L4D and provide what they said they would in the first place.

Hi Walking_Target.

Can you elaborate on this statement. My perception of the boycott group so far is that a large percentage of members are purely leaping on the band wagon with no deep desire for the cause.

Also, I've noticed lately (sadly, but not unexpected) that the number of people playing L4D has dropped significantly. In your mind is this down to a lack of support through DLC, or people moving on to other games as usual?

In relation to this - adding DLC to the game would cause a brief spike in the number of returning players. Releasing a new game for Christmas would introduce an influx of new players. As the L4D community is already dropping and you're not opposed to a new game coming out, surely pushing more DLC onto the previous game will just fragment the community further?

 

[SmugFrog]

Andy Chalk gets the scoop on the L4D boycotters and their trip to Valve.

Andy! Right off the bat I sympathize with you, with your statement about waiting 3 days to play your purchased copy of Half-Life 2. Let me tell you; I was on a U.S. Navy ship, off the coast of Hawaii during September of 2004. I had planned to pick it up during our port visit there, since we were going to be underway for about 4 months, and I had been following every snippet of the game's development. I was so disappointed when the release was set back - but I would be thankful later, when I actually picked the game up.

In November of 2004, I moved to Texas for a few years of shore duty, and in the midst of putting together a new computer, picked up the just released Half-Life 2 at a local electronic's store. I was so excited! Our furniture hadn't even arrived yet, but that night I was going to finish building my computer and be playing freakin' Half-Life 2!

"Not so fast," the game let me know on installation. First I needed an internet connection. My internet wasn't to be hooked up for a week or more. In my desperation, I went all over town looking for an America Online CD - any way I could get the software and a trial account just to enable this game - even if it had to be over dialup. Eventually finding one, I started the unnecessarily slow authentication, de-encrypting, patching... It wasn't until about 5:30 the next morning that I finally was able to start the game up and see a few minutes of it before deciding to get some sleep and start up the next day. During that 12+ hour wait to play a game I had PURCHASED and had in my possession, I realized how angry I would have been if Half-Life 2 had been released while I was on the ship around Hawaii. With no internet connection for personal computers, I would have been out of luck for a few months with the game in my possession and no way to play it. I suppose that in comparison to your 3 day wait, my time activating HL2 over a dial-up connection was a fortunate experience.

To the point of your topic (you have evoked so many thoughts for me), I too, have apparently been "doing it wrong" with my complaints to Valve. Reading about the Left 4 Dead 2 boycott guys getting a trip to Valve enraged me; not because of anything even related about that game, but because of Valve's refusal to release information about Episode 3!

After everything they were showing us about Episode 2, during that long delay - they kept showing us the same trailers and same pictures, but with "new graphical effects". Sure, it kept looking better, but the wait at the time was a pain. I now consider the wait to be worth it, as Episode 2 was a finely tuned game. The thing that is killing me about Episode 3 is that there is almost NO information about it. No screenshot, no talk (aside from the "sign language" idea), nothing! By the time the game comes out, are the casual gamers that loved Episode 2 even going to want to play it? I can't understand how Valve is not concerned about this - do they not see how all of their fans are (were?) asking questions, begging for any snippets of information about this game? I'm pissed that they've basically shunned the Half-Life audience and embraced their Left 4 Dead fanbase!

So, that's my rant. I've emailed Gabe about this a few times, but I never receive a response. Do I need to start a petition DEMANDING that they release some bit of information?

If I lived in the U.S., and didn't have a job, I would probably go camp in front of Valve HQ until they would show me something of Episode 2. Throw us a bone Valve - or did you forget about us with your newfound series?

 

[Thurmer]

L4D boycotts are for underdeveloped boys.

and the australian government who funnily enough is filled with underdeveloped boys
...fml

 

[undeadfly]

I still think the real problem is that Valve was so quick to jump on a sequel for L4D (Which I honestly thought was the fourth installment of a game made popular before my time) when you consider how long it took for sequels to Half Life and Team Fortress to be made.

I can understand why valve did what they did. the Replay value for L4D 1 is fairly high. But it isnt that high. There is only a handful of weapons. 4 campaigns 4 infected to play as. For all intents and purposes L4D 1 was a demo for l4d2. I bet the real reason everone got pissed at valve was not because they decided not to funnel updates through xbox live for 12 dollars a pop for the next 3 years. But the fact that most of these people got addicted to a game and now they gotta buy another game. Boo hoo. get a job.

 

[Andy Chalk]

I think if someone doesn't like the way a company handles their product they should either try and get a job there to make changes, start their own company, or shut the fuck up and not be such babies. Taking it upon yourself to try and get a business to give you what you want is ascenine and juvenile, and shows you are too immature to handle disappointment. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who are dissatisfied with a product should just keep quiet about it and move on? Quite apart from the matter of the boycott, that's a shockingly... well, shocking statement. Giving people what they want is a pretty vital part of the business/consumer relationship.

 

[Andy Chalk]

"Not so fast," the game let me know on installation. First I needed an internet connection. My internet wasn't to be hooked up for a week or more. In my desperation, I went all over town looking for an America Online CD - any way I could get the software and a trial account just to enable this game - even if it had to be over dialup. Eventually finding one, I started the unnecessarily slow authentication, de-encrypting, patching...

I felt your pain, believe me. Between the Steam servers being hammered by all the people trying to run HL2 at the same time and being forced to download huge patches and updates over a dialup connection, I was more than a little unhappy at the time. Things have improved dramatically since, for both Steam and me, but I'm still not a fan and that's a big reason why - I know how frustrating it can be for people without a decent net connection.

It's just a pity Valve keeps making such damn good games. I find it hard to be critical in the face of such awesomeness.