179: The Battleship Final Fantasy

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

The month the game came out I played through the game twice in an effort to understand it, without much luck. I can play the game and make a guess based on what information they provide but it kinda breaks the immersion for me when I have to fill in the gaps myself. But hey, to each his own.

If there's one thing FFVII isn't trying to be, it's immersive. At least, not in the same way a game like, say, Half Life is immersive. Instead, it has the immersive quality of a really good book (opinions held), and I know plenty of books that force the reader to fill in gaps.

 

[olicon]

Maybe I'm just mad. Maybe I'm just Asian (I am!), but I do like FF series--all of them. I can relate to them pretty well. A lot of the theme would never fly with Westerners..but then so was the concept of Kamikaze.
One thing that really detracts from jRPG's experience is their extremely linear story line. It's good for people who are there to enjoy the ride--but not for people who are after branching stories, with lots of dialog trees. In a sense, it's not a Western RPG. You don't get to choose the outcome--and if your favorite character is about to bite the dust, you are powerless to help. That factor alone is a real killer for any jRPGs to a lot of Americans I know. You even fail save the "world" in Star Ocean. Everyone you call family always die in Suikoden, and you always find out the bad guy isn't even really a bad guy--he's always just painfully realistic. That's just not the concept of RPGs that some can stand.

Personally, I like every FF more and more. The older ones were interesting, but marred by lousy dialog. The newer ones pay more and more attention to detail. Your character matter less and less in the world. You were the big shot in FF4. By the time of FF7, you were a lowly SOLDIER. In FF10, you are reduced to a forgotten athelete. In FF12, your character didn't even leave a mark in the game world. Sure, Ashe won. But so what? Nobody remembers Vaan, except his close friends. Personally, these move toward a more "real" world is more immersive, not more dialog options. The world actually exist, and like the real world, it doesn't care about you.
Talk about the story, I find that it is very jarring to have the silent protagonist up against strong, speaking casts. But character's relationship becomes much more intimate over the years. You can see that they bond more than in older FFs. New character actually seems to interact to each other, not just the quest that you are undertaking. A feature so well praised in games like Mass Effects.

I find the game play more engaging as the game grows as well. I adored FF5's turn-base combat (that was my first). I love FF6's customization even more. Then I got to try Tactics and FF7, and I love every bit of it. (Did people even realized there's a materia in FF7 that allows you to press a button at the right time to always pull critical attack? I bet not.) FF8's gun blade was also extremely awesome. Sure, drawing magic was a drag, but pumping bad guys full of Irvin's Quick Shot is ever so satisfying. Also, did you realized, again, that you can "trigger" everyone's attack to get a critical hit? I only found that out on my 2.5th play through. It became a breeze when everyone always hit for critical damage all the time. And did I mention much more engaging?
FF12 was the true pinnacle in combat system. I totally fell in love with Parasite Eve's pseudo real time combat, as well as Vagrant Story. FF12 is very reminiscent of those games for me, and I love every bit of it. I love pulling combos, and seeing enemies getting diced.

If you are all about the reward versus investment, then jRPGs are not the game for you. Imagine them more as an interactive novel. Some feel they are outdated, but I always find them refreshing. Especially when it says something about the world.
FF7's nature vs artificial theme wasn't there by accident. And so wasn't the memory and nostalgia of FF10. (There was a big debate around that time about renewal of extreme nationalistic movement, and Korea was up in arms wanting apologies for Japan's cruelty during WW2). The very theme of Final Fantasy resonate with us Asian and our current event. I am sure it will continue to be so, and it will provide ever more refined game play, more attention to details, and I will continue to enjoy them.

 

[Sheanus]

My quick-and-easy comment on this topic is 'Pull the life support.' Or at least, refocus the demographic.

I think it already has (EDIT - the demographic that is). I see some of the games that companies like square enix and such companies make for platofrms like the PSP and DS and PS3 and I think 'Japan'. Even now I see some of the games that my classmates enjoy during break (currently I'm living in Japan on exchange) and I see how they vastly differ from games a Westerner might enjoy. I tried Monster Hunter and got bored with it because I couldn't pick a pure magic class and go to town with fireballs and that type of magic.

At this point I think 'Maybe it's just the game', but I then look at the storylines of some of the other RPGs, remember the general emotional persuasion fo the people and think 'yeah, most of these games are tailor made for these guys', and I think that's also why most westerners (not I say MOST, suppose I should say nowadays as well, as they did it in the past as well and we bought/played the games) don't really touch those types of games anymore.

Call me a virtual gun-toting pyromaniac, but I play games to have fun, whether that's scoring headshot after headshot, or conjuring a fire/magicball with which I'm gonna eviscerate the guy in front of me. I generally RP because of the aforementioned fireballs or because I wanna make my own story. JRPGs don't really let you do that, it's very much like being in a movie, or acting out a book, which seemed to work for those companies in the past, however after reusing the same basic plot elements a few times, gets a bit stale.

I don't know what it is about the Japanese that keeps drawing them to these games, whether it be the pretty scenery/characters, the availability of playtime [with handhelds] (you have not known boredom till you have to ride an hour on the train with just an Ipod and re-listened tracks), good advertising, the tried-and-true 'happy ending' formula, or that they're the only games really made for them, but it seems more and more that these sort of games are made primarily for the Japanese public, not those that find Gears of War or WoW fun. (because honest to God, I've seen GoW but not WoW here, not for love or money).

[please note I'm only going off those experiences I've had with classmates here in Japan, if anyones got some sales figures of games in Japan (and even sales of games similar to the FF series in western countries), it would be good, whether to help or hinder my above argument.

EDIT - I take back the thing about the 'happy ending' thing being a draw-in, and instead replace it with 'emotionally packed storyline'. (sorry, my JRPG experience is reasonably limited)

 

[kiwisushi]

I have and always will like final fantasy games(and jrpgs in general), disregarding all of their pretty obvious flaws. I just find the art style appealing, along with the soundtracks. I like the grandeur of the thing as a spectacle. XIII and versus XIII to me look incredible, versus XIII in particular.
With regard to XII, that style of gameplay to me wasn't what I was hoping for to begin with, but it pretty much hooked me after a while and got me playing games with similar styles of combat (elder scrolls - similar, not the same!).
I do think that the article is probably right in some respect in terms of what these games are delivering hasn't really changed, but the same can be said for most genres. For example, FPSs are all based loosely around - shoot til you get to the end of the game. The original doom games give me as much enjoyment as the more recent FPSs like resistance 2. The addition of multiplayer is the only significant difference in FPSs since their incarnation, just an opinion, I know there will be many who disagree.

 

[roblikestoskate]

Great article. I've become completely disenfranchised with the series despite how much I adored it in my youth. Though this may be due to growing up and finding different interests and tastes, I do believe it's partly down to Square remaking similar plots, with similar characters all to achieve the same pleasure I've already had.
Average plots, a poor script and an often pointless main character these days don't create the immersion of previous games.

I feel the same way and have gained much insite from this article. In fact, I've outgrown most JRPGs entirely. One series I cannot shake, however, is the Shin Megami Tensei games. They're different enough to be justifiable in their own rite and they often tackle darker subject matter than the average heroic quest.

 

[jansan4]

There hasn't been a top-notch Final Fantasy since VI and Tactics. I agree that FF needs to shake something up. I wonder if it is the story that is the main issue though, and not lack of new, innovative gameplay features. In that sense, I don't know if it is a Final Fantasy problem or an issue with JRPGs in general.

And by the way, I get a big kick out of all the threads on here that say "My first experience with FF was VII." Poor souls...you got stuck with the worst in the series on your first go-around. Well, as long as we forget about FF Mystic Quest that is, hehe.

 

[Fbuh]

I like the comparison to Yamato, but I think a lot of the article was misdirected and lacking. Don't get me wrong, I think that Final Fantasy has been going downhill since after FF7. However, the article discussed the game play more than actual character and plot design. I don't know how anyone else feels, but I play RPGs for the story and characters, not the game play. Weapons, battle systems, and magic systems are more or less just glitter. If we were to analyze Final Fantasy games purely on setting and plot, we would find that there are roughly 3 different categories.

The first is the medieval Dungeons and Dragons type, such as Final Fantasies 1-5. These focused more on medieval style knights, dragons, magic, etc. This style ended around FF5, and 6 started to incorporate new themes.

The next category is a sort of industrial/modernistic style, using a lot of machinery (often in conjunction with magic) and darker themes. There were really only three games that focused on this: FF6, 7, and 8. The stories were darker, deeper, and dealt more with the internal struggle of the characters themselves. A perfect example would be 6, which didn't exactly have a defined main character, but focused on all of the characters through out the game. 7 is regarded as the series' crowning achievement, using gritty and dark settings to match the depressive struggle of the characters.

After this comes the weird Techno-Future Magic style. This focuses more on magic, bright and colorful clothing, and a generally happier setting. They span FF 9-12. However, I personally believe that these games are not as good. The stories are often cliched and unoriginal, and the characters have less personality than that of an empty bread bag. FF12 is perhaps the best example of this, which could be described as Star Wars meets D&D. However, FF13 seems to be making a push back towards the industrial styling of FF7 and 8, though how this will work is currently undecided.

I think that the Final Fantasy series is dying and everyone knows it, perhaps even Square-Enix itself. To me, FF13 seems to be accurately described as Yamato; as a sort of last ditch "Hoo-rah!" to give the series its send off. I will be sad to see it go, but it is about time for new tactics and ideas.

 

[Guilen-]

It occurs to me that you have no idea why we like these games.

......

What the hell are you talking about?!

No, I get it. But basically all you're saying is, "I don't really get a kick out of it, and I can elaborate profusely based on my own affection for my toy collection and interest in history an analogy that describes from the outside what's "wrong" with a series that really at this point is for people that aren't me. And I get to feel smart putting these words together, while shitting on fans' genuine affection and excitement." So... figure that out. What does it matter if it's "obsolete", whatever the hell that means? It's -not- a warship. It's intention is -not- to kill people, not even to kill the competition metaphorically. It's for people who engage in the kind of love that it creates, and rewards them by evolving the feel that they relate to in themselves from having been moved by the series a long time ago, and sticking with it after all these years. You might be in love with a more advanced model, sure, and that's completely your perogative. But if I was married to the girl cuz I loved her, I wouldn't be leaving her for the 18 year old cheerleader, that's for damn sure, just because she was younger and had newer clothes, nor would I, for that matter, be publishing declarative essays on the futility of older models keeping on. *shrugs* You're talking about a world where competition matters to the industry, not the fans.

Obsolete? Pfft. Paint is obsolete. That doesn't change the fact that it has a vibrancy that can never be replaced. Digital color can be equal to it, but can never excede it. Different universes altogether. I'm going to wait in terse excitement for the best game on the PS3 to come out, and you can enjoy your opinion, and we'll both be pretty happy! Just don't assume you're "right". Assume that's how you feel. Well written, though, good work. But yeah. Thank god/allah/buddah/jebediah springfield that old school heart lives and breaths. The hands that typed your article are obsolete compared to ones that made that game. But hey. Feel secure in your career choice.

 

[Guilen-]

@Onmi:
Link please? I wanna read that. Well, I guess people hate stuff because it's popular.

When it's original, people love it.
When people love it, it becomes popular.
When it's popular, it becomes mainstream.
When it's mainstream, it's no longer original.
When it's no longer original, people no longer love it.
When people no longer love it, it's no longer popular.

.....can I use that in a song somewhere? That's -very- well put.

 

[ilion]

Finally, I agree, i never liked any FF story, except 4, and iam no hater of jrpgs, final fantasy tactics, panzer dragoon saga were amazing.

 

[Cryo84R]

Fantastic article.

 

[LightspeedJack]

Final Fantasy has never produced a good or even coherent plot, a compelling character, a line of believable dialogue or a scene worthy of anything but a Saturday morning cartoon.

I call bullshit. Have you played the PS1 Final Fantasy games?

Spoiler

In Final Fantasy IX when the black mages explain their inevitable death. In Final Fantasy VII when Aerith is killed. In Final Fantasy X when Tidus fades away to an uncertain fate. In Crisis Core as Zack utters his last words.

All these moments had me close to tears if not bawling. Sure the earlier games suffered from bad translations but to call the writing "dreck" is just downright ignorant. All this guy does is bash Final Fantasy. You don't like it, that's fine it's not for everybody but this article is completeley biased against the series and was not interesting or enlightening in any way.