Australian Christian Lobby Compares Games to SAS Training

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Australian Christian Lobby Compares Games to SAS Training


The head of the Australian Christian Lobby [http://www.acl.org.au/] has explained his group's opposition to an R18+ videogame rating for Australia, comparing videogames to the military training methods employed by the Special Air Service regiment.

Comparing videogames to opposed [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service] to the creation of an R18+ rating for games.

"With any military training, you have to break a very natural reluctance - and from a Christian point of view I think it's a good natural reluctance - by anybody to kill someone else. In order to break that reluctance the military generally - but particularly the SAS because of the time critical nature of the actions they're involved with - means you have to break that by two things: The first is simulation and you make that as real as possible. The second is repetition," he explained to GameSpot Australia [http://au.gamespot.com/news/6249774.html?].

"I think you'd agree that for SAS personnel involved in counter-terrorism to do that is a necessary evil so to speak," he continued. "But for us to be condoning games that did that for the general person out in the community, particularly when we're going to get some of those people who have a predisposition to violence simply doesn't make sense, and it's not in the individual's interest, and it's not in the community's interest."

The ACL supports R18+ ratings for movies because they don't offer the interactivity that videogames do, he said. "It's simulation and interactivity and repetition, all of which are ascribed to games, that make them a particularly dangerous form of medium to be flooding the community with," he explained. "We're not talking about movies that are a one-off viewing or you might see a piece of violence in a 90 minute session. We're talking about something that is repetitive, highly simulated and highly interactive."

Wallace dismissed the ongoing public consultation on the matter as "nonsense," echoing the view of South Australia Attorney General Michael Atkinson [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97581-Atkinson-Dismisses-Game-Consultation-as-Unfair] that the process won't represent the opinion of most Australians because the only people who will get involved in it will be gamers and members of the game industry. He also supported Atkinson's suggestion that "imagery" be included as part of the consultation process, because people are largely unaware of the extreme content present in potential R18+ games. "Most people won't realize the sort of danger until it's on top of them," he said.

The public consultation on "An R18+ Classification for Computer Games [http://www.ag.gov.au/gamesclassification]" runs until February 28.


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thenumberthirteen

Unlucky for some
Dec 19, 2007
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SAS Training? That sounds pretty cool. Maybe this generation shall be the ultimate warriors!

I'm glad I don't live in Australia. My parents have been talking about moving as there are a lot of good jobs for nursing professionals like my mum, but there's no cool videogames!
 

Bat Vader

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Mar 11, 2009
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I don't think kids will want to use their supposed SAS training skills in real life.

It is like they are trying to parent an entire country but by doing so they are taking away the right to choose what someone wants.
 

Rusty Bucket

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Dec 2, 2008
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The amount of things I've killed in games must be well into the hundreds of thousands by now. Give me a gun and tell me to kill someone and I'll end up in the foetal position in the corner. His argument doesn't really work.
 

Truly-A-Lie

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Nov 14, 2009
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Damn! He's found out that gaming is step one, and step two is taking our skills to the real world. These complaints are started to sound like Dollhouse, all we need to get the real-world skills is the right disc.
 

That's Funny

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Jul 20, 2009
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Wow, just wow, how come I'm not surprised that Christians would be saying this (no offense intended to other christians).
 

Sporky111

Digital Wizard
Dec 17, 2008
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I have 3 irrefutable pieces of evidence to disprove everything he just said:

1. Not all Australians are Christian

2. Not all games involve extreme levels of violence

3. This is not the Enlightenment era. We do not need to justify the fact that people are reasonable and can make intelligent choices on their own

EDIT: Also, it's really hypocritical of him to compare SAS training to gaming when SAS training has obviously had no negative impact on his ability to make rational decisions. He isn't a rampant killer, so his argument has no merit.
 

SnootyEnglishman

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May 26, 2009
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How is playing a game similar to intense military training? He makes no sense and makes his group and Atkinson look even more like ignorant jackasses. Also they must going off the "gamers and lazy and stupid" stereotype thinking we don't realize what danger is.
 

Davrel

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Jan 31, 2010
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A Christian in the army...the SAS no less; the ultimate hypocrisy. The SAS is hardly a "turn the other cheek" organisation. Based purely on that, I would ignore anything this man has to say.
 

Abedeus

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Sep 14, 2008
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So, people playing shooters and brutal games get used to blood and death...

Strange, because I was afraid to look at my dog's wound when I was changing her bandages with my mom (we had to cut off those dangling, useless claws on the rear legs). It was disgusting.

Also, it's kind of hard to say it with straight face that games with crappy graphics, non-existent models of damage (you know, where you can dismember people using firearms) and crappy laws of physics can affect people playing them. I mean, when you have TV shows and movies showing those things A LOT more realistically? That's like learning how to have sex from Japanese comic books. Sure, you get the idea, but it's not something you'll actually use in real life.
 

Filtertip

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Jan 30, 2009
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Well tbf he is saying his peace with knowage and exprence and giving reason as to why he is not on the gamers side so i can respect him for that but also COME ON just because i can take rifle in a game and fire it at almost pin point with out even thinking twice aboutdos'nt meen i can do the same for real, last i try i fired an air rifle at 10 meters maybe less and 9 times out of 10 i missed.
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
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Sporky111 said:
I have 3 irrefutable pieces of evidence to disprove everything he just said:

1. Not all Australians are Christian

2. Not all games involve extreme levels of violence

3. This is not the Enlightenment era. We do not need to justify the fact that people are reasonable and can make intelligent choices on their own
couldn't say it better myself. Let people use free will please...don't shove god in our face...
 

Tyranicus

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Feb 8, 2008
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This guy is totally right! Videogames make me want to grab a gun and play super-soldier! Bullshit I got to put myself away from my computer just to eat something and thats a quest in it self.
 

Eldarion

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Sep 30, 2009
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Ok that is it.

I give up. Australia's government and its christians hate gamers.

This is just the extremist christian morons trying to force their ideas on the rest of the country. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened.

Organized religious groups..........just.........GRRRRR.
 

flaming_squirrel

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Jun 28, 2008
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I wouldnt last a single day training to be in the SAS, his analogy is rediculous and intended to get a reaction out of the media. Pretty cheap trick.

Also if you've seen a single video of a REAL military firefight then anyone can tell that games are nothing like real life, much less scary.
 

Crimsane

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Apr 11, 2009
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Christian Lobby
Whew, saved again by my brain's self-preservation "off" switch that triggers on such phrases. Such stories never end well.

Is this guy really trying to claim that playing God of War will cause me to be less resistant to the idea of killing people? Sorry Jimbo, the only thing that makes me any less hesistant about killing another human is if my own life/the lives of those around me are in danger of ending if I don't.

Mehhhhh. When I was younger, everything was TV's fault, then the Internet's fault, now it's gaming's turn. I can't wait to see what's next.
 

Zepren

The Funnyman
Sep 2, 2009
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I actually loled when i saw this title.

Well i remember my time in the Gamer-training camps. How to dissemble and assemble an xbox controller. To take care of your comrads, make sure to give them friend invites etc. Never leave a man behind, especially if he has the flag, unless he's a noob.

You guys remember the basic training we go? Saved a lot of lives
 

Crunchy English

Victim of a Savage Neck-bearding
Aug 20, 2008
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Ok, if I understand this right, in order to turn a person into a killing machine, you have them enact an simulation of a violent act, over and over again. Interesting. Yet anyone who studies martial arts at the local YMCA does not immediately morph into a rampant killing machine.

Also, thank you for condescendingly pointing out that other religions (or lack there of) might not see this as a bad thing. Honestly, he said that from a Christian point of view, he found the reluctance to kill a good thing. It appears he said that without any irony. What exactly am I supposed to infer from that? Obviously non-christians are just sick and tired of people not constantly killing each other?

Oh, and remember, this isn't an "impressionable youth" defense. They are denying these games to people over 18. So what? Do you not have pornography in Australia? But see, an R18+ rating would mean "ADULTS" would play this game. You could even limit the sale to minors!

Finally, whose going to step up and get the Australian government to grow up? No politician, organization or protester has managed to get ANY scientifically viable evidence connecting video game violence to real world violence. Not one. No such study exists. If someone claims to have that study, I'd like to see it peer-reviewed, because we've actually been proving the exact opposite for about 5 years.

EDIT - just to back up that last point

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2005/08/5205.ars

http://www.hfienberg.com/clips/vidgames.htm

http://www.videogamevoters.org/pages/games_violence/

This is just the first couple things that came up in a search engine.

To be fair there was one story claiming a tenuous link had been made, but it was based on a shaky new "brain monitoring" technology and was carried on MSNBC and Fox News. Which, you might note, are not scientifically viable options.