View from the Road: The Big Goodbye
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
I'd love it.
For example, Saint's Row 1 and 2.
Same city. Different layout. The two years changed a lot. A few familiar locations in the old areas, with a ton of new stuff. Even added a few districts and a bunch of islands.
Also, reroll, Funk. REROLL!
For example, Saint's Row 1 and 2.
Same city. Different layout. The two years changed a lot. A few familiar locations in the old areas, with a ton of new stuff. Even added a few districts and a bunch of islands.
Also, reroll, Funk. REROLL!
I wouldn't mind if it was a different game(like a sequel) or if they let me go back and play the same maps, but deleting them because they are bored with them would piss me off a bit.
If Cataclysm came to my favourite game...honestly...it wouldn't make that big of an impact on me.
Oh sure, at the start finding out how everything changed would be pretty cool I imagine, and that's why I said once before that I do plan to perhaps take one more 2-month card for WoW to see how the world's changed with Cata.
But you know what? I have become 100% sure that after that 2 months I won't have any wish to continue. Because WotLK pretty much let me know, that as much as the cosmetic changes might come to WoW, the underlying thing that would make endgame truly interesting for me will not - the gameplay.
Yeah it'd be hard to change it with an expansion and heck, it'd be risky. But...honestly the fact that not much will change gameplay-wise is half the reason why I decided to break away from the game (the other half being due to certain realizations about the 'social' nature of MMOs in general and the politics that go along with it).
Oh sure, at the start finding out how everything changed would be pretty cool I imagine, and that's why I said once before that I do plan to perhaps take one more 2-month card for WoW to see how the world's changed with Cata.
But you know what? I have become 100% sure that after that 2 months I won't have any wish to continue. Because WotLK pretty much let me know, that as much as the cosmetic changes might come to WoW, the underlying thing that would make endgame truly interesting for me will not - the gameplay.
Yeah it'd be hard to change it with an expansion and heck, it'd be risky. But...honestly the fact that not much will change gameplay-wise is half the reason why I decided to break away from the game (the other half being due to certain realizations about the 'social' nature of MMOs in general and the politics that go along with it).
I'm not a big fan of major changes to formulas I liked in games, but sometimes the change is for the better. It's hard to lose a habit, in our eyes the 'old times' will always seem better. On the other hand there are games that still refuse changing like the SRW series, running for almost 20 years and its still damn good. It's a luxury not many players have, to enjoy the same game they love for so many years, with only minor changes. Maybe my personal cataclysm is yet to come...
As a dedicated LOTRO player.. and one who isn't as tied to the word of Lore as many are, I would love to play that changed LOTRO game. 
Bah! the Team Fortress 2 analogy isn't a very good one. Learning maps in shooters of any kind, even those with strong RPG elements, is a matter of minutes for most, and never more than an hour. You adapt, you enjoy the challenge of seeing maps in a different light for a few minutes and you've got yourself a new go-to strategy ready to roll.
The only people this is a concern for are people who can say "WoW is a lifestyle" without any of the shame that should accompany that statement. Yes, if you've spent hours and hours and hours "living" in a place, only to come home and find your furniture rearranged, you'll be pissed. But if you're so attached to Azeroth that a redesign sets off your obsessive compulsive side, than maybe its time to switch games for a little while, or try something else for a couple weeks. Come back with some fresh eyes and it won't seem so scary. It'll just be what it is, new content for you to grind through.
The only people this is a concern for are people who can say "WoW is a lifestyle" without any of the shame that should accompany that statement. Yes, if you've spent hours and hours and hours "living" in a place, only to come home and find your furniture rearranged, you'll be pissed. But if you're so attached to Azeroth that a redesign sets off your obsessive compulsive side, than maybe its time to switch games for a little while, or try something else for a couple weeks. Come back with some fresh eyes and it won't seem so scary. It'll just be what it is, new content for you to grind through.
I remember back in the day when runescape changed to runescape 2.
(which is now just known as runescape)
The change was too vast for me, and led to me (and all my friends) quitting.
I missed out on the opportunity to put my account in classic for good and whilst I ultimately came back to the game, appreciating all the changes, but it never had that original charm.
But that change was much larger then catyclsm is, they reinvented the game from the ground up. Everything you knew was changed, combat, graphics, skills all comepletely different.
Without it though, the game would probably have died.
(which is now just known as runescape)
The change was too vast for me, and led to me (and all my friends) quitting.
I missed out on the opportunity to put my account in classic for good and whilst I ultimately came back to the game, appreciating all the changes, but it never had that original charm.
But that change was much larger then catyclsm is, they reinvented the game from the ground up. Everything you knew was changed, combat, graphics, skills all comepletely different.
Without it though, the game would probably have died.
Hmmm, well to be honest the idea of Cataclysm doesn't really resonate with me that heavily. To me it seems like they ran out of things they could do that people would be interested in so decided to take the D&D approach of having a Cataclysm so they can re-tread all the same stuff. The "Time Of Troubles", "Threat From The Sea", and other events between editions of the games, and the excuse to why they can re-sell yet another "changed" version of a popular locale like "Waterdeep".
Oh, I'll probably play it, but I'm not as psyched up as a lot of other people seem to be, and the truth is, that touching down on the edges of it might be the end of WoW for me. There are some issues with burn out, time that I can spend on gaming, repetition, and of course the simple fact that as far as I'm concerned defeating "Arthas" was the end of the game. The point at which the story should end instead of being dragged out (like many popular works of fiction) for a quick buck. I'm one of those who feels that despite WoW's success they should have some class, and do what nobody else has done: turn off the game while it's still successful and riding high in the minds of the majority of fans. That way instead of something like "Cataclysm" (which seems conceptually half-baked to me) if they decide to actually launch a "WoW 2" down the road there will be an eager fan base for it. In the mean time, they could launch another MMORPG project (like they seem to have been implying for a while) without having to compete with themselves.
Of course this will never happen, because in the end it's all about wringing every possible dime out of the franchise in as short a time as possible. Even if one argues that by ending WoW on a high note, they could make even more money in the ultra-long term, that has nothing to do with the desire for the people running the show to line their pockets with a few extra million right now.
Such are my thoughts. IMO Blizzard should have embraced the "keep them wanting more" mentality.
Oh, I'll probably play it, but I'm not as psyched up as a lot of other people seem to be, and the truth is, that touching down on the edges of it might be the end of WoW for me. There are some issues with burn out, time that I can spend on gaming, repetition, and of course the simple fact that as far as I'm concerned defeating "Arthas" was the end of the game. The point at which the story should end instead of being dragged out (like many popular works of fiction) for a quick buck. I'm one of those who feels that despite WoW's success they should have some class, and do what nobody else has done: turn off the game while it's still successful and riding high in the minds of the majority of fans. That way instead of something like "Cataclysm" (which seems conceptually half-baked to me) if they decide to actually launch a "WoW 2" down the road there will be an eager fan base for it. In the mean time, they could launch another MMORPG project (like they seem to have been implying for a while) without having to compete with themselves.
Of course this will never happen, because in the end it's all about wringing every possible dime out of the franchise in as short a time as possible. Even if one argues that by ending WoW on a high note, they could make even more money in the ultra-long term, that has nothing to do with the desire for the people running the show to line their pockets with a few extra million right now.
Such are my thoughts. IMO Blizzard should have embraced the "keep them wanting more" mentality.
As someone currently in the beta and having played through about 3 or 4 areas I had done a dozen times over in vanilla WoW I don't think its so fair to call Cataclysm a change as much as it is a continuation. Previous story lines have been expanded on, continued and made far far more epic.
I don't think your LoTR example really applies because Cata to WoW isn't so much much like rewriting that Sauron won but its more like what happened after Sauron assuming no story was written after that one (I'm unaware of any of the lore written after LoTR I'm just using it as an example).
Personally if a developer could look me in the proverbial eye and tell me that their expansion will be Cata quality in that it expands on whats happened but is still easily accessible to new players and enjoyable to play I'm quite sure they'd have my cash. I try to limit my gushing when it comes to anything I enthusiastically enjoy so I don't set unrealistic expectations of who I'm talking to but I really can't say enough about how awesome it is to not have to question why the 30 past goretusks I just killed were somehow alive before I reached them without livers.
I don't think your LoTR example really applies because Cata to WoW isn't so much much like rewriting that Sauron won but its more like what happened after Sauron assuming no story was written after that one (I'm unaware of any of the lore written after LoTR I'm just using it as an example).
Personally if a developer could look me in the proverbial eye and tell me that their expansion will be Cata quality in that it expands on whats happened but is still easily accessible to new players and enjoyable to play I'm quite sure they'd have my cash. I try to limit my gushing when it comes to anything I enthusiastically enjoy so I don't set unrealistic expectations of who I'm talking to but I really can't say enough about how awesome it is to not have to question why the 30 past goretusks I just killed were somehow alive before I reached them without livers.
Imagine if Team Fortress suddenly included tons of extra powerful weapons that you can only obtain through scoring achievements, resulting in thousands of people achievement-whoring on special cheating servers, leaving the few players who want no part of that in the dust.
Oh wait, that did happen. And I stopped playing it then.
To be fair, I hear they have improved a lot on things since that afwul change. But the current system is still horrible.
I'm nervous as hell for Cata, there's this one nagging feeling and that's.
What if I don't like it?
It's a valid question all WoW players will be asking themselves, it's an incredibly bold move of Blizzard to not only redo the maps but to destroy them too.
Things aren't getting bigger, they're getting torn down.
Time will certainly tell.
What if I don't like it?
It's a valid question all WoW players will be asking themselves, it's an incredibly bold move of Blizzard to not only redo the maps but to destroy them too.
Things aren't getting bigger, they're getting torn down.
Time will certainly tell.
I'm somewhat interested in cataclysm. I have never actually made it to the end game - the closest I ever got was to level 75 before all my friends jumped ship and there no longer seemed to be a reason to play. The grind up until the end was a lonely experience, filled with a handful of noobs like myself and awesomely equipped characters that verterans had rerolled. It was always a bit frustrating when someone would ask "what is your main" when I was playing as a level 30 or 40 rogue and I'd tell them the truth: that this WAS my main. I think I encountered perhaps a dozen other players questing through Azeroth - it wasn't until the outlands that I finally saw other players regularly and that took several honest to god days of my life to reach.
With the expansion, perhaps the trek to the end would be less tiresome, less irritating and actually feel like a multiplayer game and not a terrible, terrible single player RPG.
With the expansion, perhaps the trek to the end would be less tiresome, less irritating and actually feel like a multiplayer game and not a terrible, terrible single player RPG.
I quit WoW over a year ago after having tasted the satisfaction of several world top-10 kills in BT and Sunwell and concluding, after conquering Naxx in a single day and completing all hardmore 25 man achievements in Ulduar, that Wotlk did not satisfy me. But if I decided to go back, I'd definitely reroll. I'd want to see the lava-ridden Barrens from a leveler's perspective and share the fun of exploration on a fresh server, not fly over them once. Then I'd probably quit again of course, since I've had enough of Ragnaros to last me a lifetime.
Given that I hate online play this would mean that my current games would have to suddenly become apocalptic, more like the GTA example than any others.
And I think it would be awesome beyond words.
There's something I find fascinatingly morbidly beautiful about games like Fallout 3, or [PROTOTYPE], in the way they portray the familiar as changed. (Not that I would recognise Washington DC or New York that well being British, but even for me the cultural osmosis of the White House gave me an interesting experience visiting it in Fallout 3, and a similar effect with Times Square in [PROTOTYPE])
I can imagine running around Saints Row, or the Mass Effect universe, or Hogwarts, and everything was busted all to hell, and I would think it was the coolest thing I had ever played. A lot of my earliest gaming experiences instilled in me a belief that the apocalypse is the only fitting conclusion to your final battles against evil. Final Fantasy uses it a lot, Mass Effect seems to be leaning this way, HP ends with Hogwarts in near ruins, Lef5 4 Dead, Halo, Batman, even Tomb Raider to an extent ended this way, with you fighting in a near literal version of Hell.
So for me, I like to think that the apocalypse is always waiting just round the corner, the final trick for the villain to pull, the final fight I have to go through, and it's only right that it's the biggest challenge of all.
To have an entire game where Lara Croft explored a desolate and lonely Britain ravaged by the thralls and the shadow monster from the latest three games would be so incredibly powerful to me, and I would love to see that image realised someday.
And I think it would be awesome beyond words.
There's something I find fascinatingly morbidly beautiful about games like Fallout 3, or [PROTOTYPE], in the way they portray the familiar as changed. (Not that I would recognise Washington DC or New York that well being British, but even for me the cultural osmosis of the White House gave me an interesting experience visiting it in Fallout 3, and a similar effect with Times Square in [PROTOTYPE])
I can imagine running around Saints Row, or the Mass Effect universe, or Hogwarts, and everything was busted all to hell, and I would think it was the coolest thing I had ever played. A lot of my earliest gaming experiences instilled in me a belief that the apocalypse is the only fitting conclusion to your final battles against evil. Final Fantasy uses it a lot, Mass Effect seems to be leaning this way, HP ends with Hogwarts in near ruins, Lef5 4 Dead, Halo, Batman, even Tomb Raider to an extent ended this way, with you fighting in a near literal version of Hell.
So for me, I like to think that the apocalypse is always waiting just round the corner, the final trick for the villain to pull, the final fight I have to go through, and it's only right that it's the biggest challenge of all.
To have an entire game where Lara Croft explored a desolate and lonely Britain ravaged by the thralls and the shadow monster from the latest three games would be so incredibly powerful to me, and I would love to see that image realised someday.