198: Love Triangle

[Incredible Bullshitting Man]

Hmm... well... I admit, I find Jackal the Ripper interesting, because its a mystery to everyone as to whom he or she was. And sometimes I find, say, Sylar from heroes interesting, but this is intellectual couriously. I don't admire him or his acts. I find it interesting how he acts, the nature of him as both man and monster.

The youngsters might admire such people because, lets face it, the youngsters (under 16's) are impressed by alot because there still relativity new to the world, heh.

There´s an interesting evolution seen in there; How we were, as a child, fascinated by gore itself, the very act of violence, but after certain age intellect gets involved and we are fascinated by the mind behind these acts. And to investigate the mind, we have to first focus on the action, since that is the only thing we can observe from outside perspective. A Fancy explanation to why we like gore, ain´t it (Not serious here)

And yes, the Ripper is an interesting character, mostly because s/he is a mystery, and we all love mysteries. What I find weird, is how we can conjure up the most gruesome images we can think of, when we lack information. I mean the rumours concerning the Ripper, what he did and how he did it. Imagination is a vile thing indeed.

To put this post on topic, I´d say what we have here, in this article, is basically the same thing we already know about males and their(our) interest in violence and tits; Playing out dark, hidden passions safely through interactive entertainment. The difference is that, while in their fantasies males tend to be the attacker, the one committing heinous deeds, females seem to take the role of the victim. In addition, female fantasies seem to be more sexual in nature, while males experience more with their inherent brutality. Whether or not brutal fantasies have any sexual tension, I´m not qualified to say.

Now, I´m not an expert nor have I had proper psychological education, so all this is just speculation, mostly based on assumptions and gender stereotypes. Take what you will from it.

 

[Doug]

Hmm... well... I admit, I find Jackal the Ripper interesting, because its a mystery to everyone as to whom he or she was. And sometimes I find, say, Sylar from heroes interesting, but this is intellectual couriously. I don't admire him or his acts. I find it interesting how he acts, the nature of him as both man and monster.

The youngsters might admire such people because, lets face it, the youngsters (under 16's) are impressed by alot because there still relativity new to the world, heh.

There´s an interesting evolution seen in there; How we were, as a child, fascinated by gore itself, the very act of violence, but after certain age intellect gets involved and we are fascinated by the mind behind these acts. And to investigate the mind, we have to first focus on the action, since that is the only thing we can observe from outside perspective. A Fancy explanation to why we like gore, ain´t it (Not serious here)

I suspect thats primarily because in the course of evolution, males were hunts and warriors, who's task it was to defend and supply the tribals with food. Hence, an interest in gore was important as it was the 'stock and trade' if you will. Females, well, I'm not sure if they are interested in it - ladies?
*drags on a pipe before blowing bubbles out of the end*

And yes, the Ripper is an interesting character, mostly because s/he is a mystery, and we all love mysteries. What I find weird, is how we can conjure up the most gruesome images we can think of, when we lack information. I mean the rumours concerning the Ripper, what he did and how he did it. Imagination is a vile thing indeed.

Ahhh, this one I can understand - humans always look for patterns and understanding to the patterns. This is how conspiracy theories are formed - incomplete data and understanding prompts spectulation. Again, this traces its way back to the plains of Africa where 'hmm, my friend disappeared and there appears to be a lions tail sticking out of the grass, therefore I should avoid lions' was about the only trick our proto-species had of survival.

To put this post on topic, I´d say what we have here, in this article, is basically the same thing we already know about males and their(our) interest in violence and tits; Playing out dark, hidden passions safely through interactive entertainment. The difference is that, while in their fantasies males tend to be the attacker, the one committing heinous deeds, females seem to take the role of the victim. In addition, female fantasies seem to be more sexual in nature, while males experience more with their inherent brutality. Whether or not brutal fantasies have any sexual tension, I´m not qualified to say.

Now, I´m not an expert nor have I had proper psychological education, so all this is just speculation, mostly based on assumptions and gender stereotypes. Take what you will from it.

Hmm... I suppose your right. I do think that our surprise at rape fantasties are popular is because rape is a worse crime to people than most murders - after all, rape is torturous and can often stay with the victim for years if not the rest of their lives. With killing (i.e. every FPS), its short, sharp, and over quickly - add to that, most 'killing' fantasty games, you and your enemy generally have equal odds. Add to that, in FPS' online, you have the bizzare situation of someone you shot coming back from the dead (i.e. respawning) to resume combat.

So...yeah, I think I lost the point abit. I still find the idea of women fantasizing about rape odd; about firm, hard, nookie wih big tough guys, fair enough, but rape is an odd thing to want I find.

 

[Alex_P]

Submission, I can understand. But rape fantasy?! And if anyone else reads this, no they aren't the same.

Submission can easily be choosing to submit to a powerful figure - hence why BDSM is relativity popular.

Rape is being forced against your will.

As fantasies, both rape fantasy and submission fantasy are often (not solely but often) about disinhibition -- being forced to do something you might want to do but are too shy or afraid or socially-programmed to just jump into yourself.

Yes, there's no consent in rape. But consent's often kinda handwaved away in sadomasochistic or submissive fantasies, too, since it's all just your fantasy so you're tapped into the secret desires of all the fantasy-people involved. The existence of a BDSM "scene" and BDSM "protocols" has certainly made people more likely to bring explicit consent into their fantasies -- since explicit consent is part of the glossy ritual of BDSM-as-a-subculture now -- but if you ask around or are to read the Internet's endless store of badly-written erotica, I think you'll find that the fictional/fantasy BDSM often does look a bit like a rape fantasy.

-- Alex

 

[Doug]

Submission, I can understand. But rape fantasy?! And if anyone else reads this, no they aren't the same.

Submission can easily be choosing to submit to a powerful figure - hence why BDSM is relativity popular.

Rape is being forced against your will.

As fantasies, both rape fantasy and submission fantasy are often (not solely but often) about disinhibition -- being forced to do something you might want to do but are too shy or afraid or socially-programmed to just jump into yourself.

Yes, there's no consent in rape. But consent's often kinda handwaved away in sadomasochistic or submissive fantasies, too, since it's all just your fantasy so you're tapped into the secret desires of all the fantasy-people involved. The existence of a BDSM "scene" and BDSM "protocols" has certainly made people more likely to bring explicit consent into their fantasies -- since explicit consent is part of the glossy ritual of BDSM-as-a-subculture now -- but if you ask around or are to read the Internet's endless store of badly-written erotica, I think you'll find that the fictional/fantasy BDSM often does look a bit like a rape fantasy.

-- Alex

The boundary is key here - if the lady 'waves away exclipit consent' then that is exclipit consent in of itself. BDSM can be is a dangerous way of doing things, and is more open to abuse because, as you say, outside it is harder to determine between the 2.

As for the erotic fiction (I have read some before), I generally view the closer to rape stuff as the author either not 'getting' BDSM, or simply being a poor author.

As I say, consent in BDSM is absolutely key, else it simply crosses the border into rape/abuse/etc.

 

[Alex_P]

As I say, consent in BDSM is absolutely key, else it simply crosses the border into rape/abuse/etc.

In the real world, yes. In personal sexual fantasies, does it particularly matter? When people choose to try to act out fantasy disempowerment, be it rape fantasy or submissive fantasies in general, in the real world, they usually put those fantasies into a framework of consent -- "This is my fantasy, here are the boundaries and goals of my fantasy, let's make it work" -- to make them safe and approachable in reality. Whether consent also exists in the fiction of the fantasy itself is largely immaterial to me -- the fantasy itself isn't really much of a good thing or a bad thing, it's just... a thing. Your fantasies certainly say something about you, but I don't think a rape fantasy really says anything bad.

I don't think of sexual fantasies as particularly different from any other kind of personal fiction (fiction you create for you rather than to give worldwide voice to an idea -- e.g. daydreams or the shared fiction of roleplaying). When you're sharing that fiction with someone else, boundaries and consent are very important, but the ones that matter are part of the interpersonal contact that serves as a foundation for the fiction, whereas the ones within the fiction itself don't do much.

Defining the boundary of abuse is a bit trickier than just consent, too, because of "false consciousness". Dollhouse is playing around with this right now; maybe it'll have something really interesting to say if the show improves.

-- Alex

 

[calelogan]

I'm a girl, and I have never once felt even the slightest bit attracted to Pyramid Head. Take heart, my friends! We're not all insane!

I'm guessing it's more of a "niche thing", rather than a general tendency in favor of "rape fantasies by creepy villains".

 

[LongLiveourMachine]

You women better not change pyramid head.

 

[Delock]

From what I've read of a few of these comments, I can piece together that somewhere out there, there is a girl who has a Demon possessed, Pyramid Head wolf who has been bitten by a vampire raping her as her sexual fanasty.

All joking aside, is this really news worthy? As several people have mentioned, this sort of thing has existed long before PH (the internet just let people see this more clearly).

 

[Jetbaby]

Kudos to the Escapist for writing and, more importantly, researching such a thought-provoking, controversial article. Also, kudos to the majority of commenters for their reasonable, thought-out commentary.

Yes, rape fantasies (keyword being 'fantasies' - no woman I know wants to be raped) are pretty common among women, as is the fantasy of being ravished by anonymous partners. In that context, the attraction to Pyramid Head in spite of, or because of his 'thrilling headgear' makes more sense.

There's a lot of truth to women wanting to 'tame the bad boy', but I wonder if women just want the bad boy as-is. In general, women are held to a stricter moral code than men are. Men, by and large, are encouraged to lose their virginity as soon as possible and to have as many partners as possible. Women, however, are denigrated as sluts if they do the same. I feel that in a society that insists women put their sexual desires on lockdown and subjects women to such moral scrutiny, women will use sexuality to rebel, in the most controversial way possible. So by society's definition, women (or should I say nice women?) aren't supposed to be overtly sexual or enjoy violence; which is why Pyramid Head makes for great fantasy fodder for these few women.

Please bear in mind, I'm no scholar - this is just my armchair theorizing.

Also, in a world where tentacle rape enjoys an audience, is a woman's attraction to Pyramid Head so horrible?

You women better not change pyramid head.

Oooh, look at me - I'm getting girl cooties all over your video games. *waggles fingers menacingly*

 

[Doug]

Also, in a world where tentacle rape enjoys an audience, is a woman's attraction to Pyramid Head so horrible?

To be blunt, they are both awful. But trying to comprehen the strangeness of Japanese culture (as far as I'm aware, tentacle rape is a largely Japanese concept...?) is a full time task that will still baffle understanding.

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

Laugh. Out. Loud.

 

[ender214]

This article brings up an interesting point by noting that, while guys are mainly interested in sexuality and violence when it comes to drawing them to a game (which through my experience, seems to be mainly true), women seem to want an emotional game that gets them more involved in a characters psych. Women are attracted to Pyramid Head because they think they can change him.

This entire thing reminded me about why a lot of high school relationships fall apart. The girl is attracted to a guy because she thinks she can convert him from the badass he is. The guy, interested mainly in the sexual prospects of the relationship. Long story short, guy dumps girl for bugging him all the time, girl gets depressed that she wasn't good enough to change the guy. Maybe women should stop trying to change men all the time...

 

[Alex_P]

Women are attracted to Pyramid Head because they think they can change him.

I'd say not necessary change as much as... discover.

-- Alex

 

[Zemnexx]

What...the...F**k

 

[Skeleon]

And the nice guys wonder why the macho-assholes get loads of girls...

 

[Doug]

Women are attracted to Pyramid Head because they think they can change him.

But...but... he's bloody Pyramid Head! A primal force of dark and evil emotions! He rapes and murders because thats what he bloody is! Its like trying to change the bloody sea!

Conclusion: Women are strange.

 

[Doug]

And the nice guys wonder why the macho-assholes get loads of girls...

Because we're not raping, murdering metaphysical entities who represent the deep seated dark emotions of whatever burke wonders into Silent Hill?