(2016 Discussion) Gone Home

[Sharia]

It was my GOTY from 2013, an absolutely wonderful game.

It had been a long time since I really got stuck into any kind of story surrounding that era and cast of characters, so much so that I actually dug my DVD boxset of My So Called Life out right after I completed it for the first time; it was one of my favourite TV shows of the 90's and from playing Gone Home, it wouldn't surprise me if the developers were fans of it too.It's extremely well written; Samantha's actress was so spot on she may as well have been Claire Danes playing Angela Chase all over again.

I really enjoyed that both the story and the characters were built and delivered to the player by just about everything around you, and only if you were committed to it were you going to pick up on it all and see just how masterfully it has all been put together.

If the game is to be commended for anything, I would say it is the way in which it turned what was only a few hours spent poking around a house, into what felt like I had spent an entire year with this family instead. Through the smallest of detail, on the smallest of post-it-notes I found on the wall, I could build a picture of just about everything that had transpired over the last year, the emotions the characters felt, and the family issues that came along with it. In fact it captured both female teenage life, and family life in the 90's extremely well in my opinion.

I have bought Gone Home three times now. First was the original Steam release on day one, I then picked up the physical collectors edition on PC and then finally bought it on PS4 just to support the devs. It really was a truly wonderful experience and it's not a game I will ever forget.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Eh, it's less gay relationships seen as pandering, and just so few of them being given the same basic respect of straight relationships. In gaming it's pretty much always either some kind of forbidden love thing that gets the people involved alienated/beaten/etc.

That's a reality a lot of gay people have had to live through. I'm not sure reflecting it in media is somehow dishonoring gay relationships, or (god forbid) "pandering". It's not a universal reality for every gay person who ever lived, but good luck finding a universal reality when scripting a game or a show or writing a novel.

Thing is, why does it have to be persecuted or righteous?!?

Why can't it be like the US American ambassador in Denmark (Rufus Gifford)?

I mean, he's a nice bloke, who just happens to be gay, and the only thing extraordinary about him is the fact that he's an Ambassador for a nuclear superpower.

Why can't we have more gay characters in games who are like him?

 

[MrFalconfly]

Why can't we have more gay characters in games who are like him?

Bioware has gay characters without tragedy, but their games make up 90% of all lgbt characters in gaming so theyre not the best example.

The thing is, were gonna need more than 1 gay character every 5 years to move past the tragedy angle. Which is going to be difficult when a large vocal population of gamers cry pandering amd "shoving it down our throats" whenever any character might look at a character of the same sex for more than 5 seconds

Well f*ck them, then.

Also, to be honest, I think most of the Bioware characters fit into the "righteous" category.

What I wanted was more along the lines of Agent 47 (who I have a sneaking suspicion might be gay, just like Frank Martin in the Transporter movies).

EDIT:
What I mean is, the character "happens" to be gay. Not "The character is gay". Just let it be a subtle, blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.

Treat it like it's absolutely normal, and nothing to be noticed.

EDIT:EDIT:
Although, I may have shot myself in the foot, using Rufus Gifford as an example there, but that example works here in Denmark, where we just see him as "the US Ambassador", not "the gay US Ambassador".

 

[SecondPrize]

I think most of the pushback with Gone Home was because of the reaction from the gaming press and the marketing playing up a possible spooky ghost angle that wasn't in the game. Everyone's going on and on about how great a game this is and then you pay twenty bucks and what you got was Gone Home. That may work out for some people but others are going to be upset about it. The only stellar review I read about the game where I actually believed that the author believed what they were publishing rather than just jumping on the praise train for whatever reason was Tom Chick's on quartertothree.

Why can't we have more gay characters in games who are like him?

Bioware has gay characters without tragedy, but their games make up 90% of all lgbt characters in gaming so theyre not the best example.

The thing is, were gonna need more than 1 gay character every 5 years to move past the tragedy angle. Which is going to be difficult when a large vocal population of gamers cry pandering amd "shoving it down our throats" whenever any character might look at a character of the same sex for more than 5 seconds

Well f*ck them, then.

Also, to be honest, I think most of the Bioware characters fit into the "righteous" category.

What I wanted was more along the lines of Agent 47 (who I have a sneaking suspicion might be gay, just like Frank Martin in the Transporter movies).

EDIT:
What I mean is, the character "happens" to be gay. Not "The character is gay". Just let it be a subtle, blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.

Treat it like it's absolutely normal, and nothing to be noticed.

EDIT:EDIT:
Although, I may have shot myself in the foot, using Rufus Gifford as an example there, but that example works here in Denmark, where we just see him as "the US Ambassador", not "the gay US Ambassador".

The Elder Scrolls Online did that. Their quest writing is generally fantastic compared to the standard fare from MMOs and playing through all of the Daggerfall Covenant's quests and part of the Aldmeri (I think) I ran into two or three quests with just characters who happened to be gay and no big deal is made about it. The DC one comes later in leveling and you help a guy find his missing husband and the important bit everyone is concerned with is the lycanthropy, not their sexual preference. I've never seen it praised for doing so, nor for that matter any game where it's just a normal thing and part of a character.

 

[MrFalconfly]

snip

Well praise isn't what we're looking for.

Normality is.

And if anything ESO was a bit hampered by middling reviews because of the gameplay iirc.

If anything, the fact that the gay characters of ESO went under the radar should itself be a praise of their well-written gay characters.

EDIT:
I mean we're looking for a way to introduce gay characters without people shouting "SJW agenda" or "Pandering".

 

[SecondPrize]

snip

Well praise isn't what we're looking for.

Normality is.

And if anything ESO was a bit hampered by middling reviews because of the gameplay iirc.

If anything, the fact that the gay characters of ESO went under the radar should itself be a praise of their well-written gay characters.

EDIT:
I mean we're looking for a way to introduce gay characters without people shouting "SJW agenda" or "Pandering".

I feel actual praise would be better praise, if only to show devs who just don't get it how people feel it can be well done.

 

[MrFalconfly]

snip

Well praise isn't what we're looking for.

Normality is.

And if anything ESO was a bit hampered by middling reviews because of the gameplay iirc.

If anything, the fact that the gay characters of ESO went under the radar should itself be a praise of their well-written gay characters.

EDIT:
I mean we're looking for a way to introduce gay characters without people shouting "SJW agenda" or "Pandering".

I feel actual praise would be better praise, if only to show devs who just don't get it how people feel it can be well done.

Well that criticism should be directed at the journalistic staff then.

It's hardly the devs, nor the buyers fault if the ones who are able to create the largest amount of media buzz decide that such characters aren't worthy of praise.

 

[Amaror]

What I mean is, the character "happens" to be gay. Not "The character is gay". Just let it be a subtle, blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.

Treat it like it's absolutely normal, and nothing to be noticed.

Here's the problem with that language.

Heterosexual couples and relationships are a big deal. At least, in the context of most stories. Every show, every book, more than likely has a "will they or wont they" plot. Romantic kisses are a big deal, internal fireworks are shot off. Just off the top of my head, Atom and Hawkgirl's ongoing romance in Legends of Tomorrow, Flash and Iris, Peralta and Santiago, Daisy and Lincoln etc etc etc

their romantic subplot is on screen, their romantic drama is on screen, their kisses are on screen

so why, oh god why, do Gay couples have to slide under the radar and be "subtle" and "blink and you'll miss it"?

I don't want to miss it. I want gay couples to get the same romantic plot tumors that straight couples get. I want a woman to mention her wife as much as a straight guy would mention his wife. I want a plot where a dude forgets his own anniversary so he has to rush and buy cheap flowers on the way home for his husband.

This whole idea you're going for is just as toxic and harmful as not including them at all.

Why not both? Why do you either have to have all relationships be pure drama or all relationships be barely noticeable.
There can be relationships in stories that are full of drama and "Will they, won't they", but having every single relationship be like that is just unrealistic and overdone by now. And this is in general, it doesn't make a difference whether they are relationships between women, men or blue aliens form mars.
I also think it's hilarious that you are accusing him of homophobia while advocating to stereotype all gay relationships.

btw. A gay character I always thought was well done was Dumbledore. There were definite hints towards his sexuality in the book and the story, but it was never made a big deal, because ultimately it doesn't matter what he likes in a romantic partner since he is never really interested in a relationship during the story. And that's while there was a definite opportunity for them to make a big deal out of it with the whole Grindelwald-substory and Rita but they never did.

 

[Sharia]

God this thread us (mostly boring). Less about the game and more about a highly uninteresting, general subject.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

God this thread us (mostly boring). Less about the game and more about a highly uninteresting, general subject.

you expecting GT like discussion my friend?

 

[Sharia]

GT was no different towards the end. Discussion on any political, religious, social or any other subject unrelated to the games themselves always bought the most discussion sadly. You only had to look at the likes of the gamergate thread.

 

[MrFalconfly]

What I mean is, the character "happens" to be gay. Not "The character is gay". Just let it be a subtle, blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.

Treat it like it's absolutely normal, and nothing to be noticed.

Here's the problem with that language.

Heterosexual couples and relationships are a big deal. At least, in the context of most stories. Every show, every book, more than likely has a "will they or wont they" plot. Romantic kisses are a big deal, internal fireworks are shot off. Just off the top of my head, Atom and Hawkgirl's ongoing romance in Legends of Tomorrow, Flash and Iris, Peralta and Santiago, Daisy and Lincoln etc etc etc

their romantic subplot is on screen, their romantic drama is on screen, their kisses are on screen

so why, oh god why, do Gay couples have to slide under the radar and be "subtle" and "blink and you'll miss it"?

I don't want to miss it. I want gay couples to get the same romantic plot tumors that straight couples get. I want a woman to mention her wife as much as a straight guy would mention his wife. I want a plot where a dude forgets his own anniversary so he has to rush and buy cheap flowers on the way home for his husband.

This whole idea you're going for is just as toxic and harmful as not including them at all.

Why not both? Why do you either have to have all relationships be pure drama or all relationships be barely noticeable.
There can be relationships in stories that are full of drama and "Will they, won't they", but having every single relationship be like that is just unrealistic and overdone by now. And this is in general, it doesn't make a difference whether they are relationships between women, men or blue aliens form mars.
I also think it's hilarious that you are accusing him of homophobia while advocating to stereotype all gay relationships.

btw. A gay character I always thought was well done was Dumbledore. There were definite hints towards his sexuality in the book and the story, but it was never made a big deal, because ultimately it doesn't matter what he likes in a romantic partner since he is never really interested in a relationship during the story. And that's while there was a definite opportunity for them to make a big deal out of it with the whole Grindelwald-substory and Rita but they never did.

"Why not both?"

I am. I literally am advocating for both. I said I want gay relationships to be treated the same as straight ones on TV. That includes literally every romantic trope, big to small. I merely used big examples to demonstrate how it's unfair that straight couples don't have to hide in the shadows using "blink and you'll miss it" details.

"I also think it's hilarious that you are accusing him of homophobia while advocating to stereotype all gay relationships."

......what? Please, elaborate how I'm advocating to stereotype gay relationships.

"A gay character I always thought was well done was Dumbledore."

Why am I not surprised that your favorite gay character would be one that wasn't gay until years after the books were finished as an after thought by the author.

Honestly, I'm not accusing you of homophobia, but when you're praising lgbt characters about how great they are that you don't have to see, hear, or know about them being gay I can't help but make that suggestion.

Then why did you respond to me?

I also wanted both.

That was what my post was about. That we need more nuanced portrayal. We need both the "in your face, primary couple who drive the story" stuff, AND the "subtle blink-and-you'll-miss-it" stuff.

As it stands it's only the former (when gay characters are allowed), and never the latter (only very, extremely sparingly).

 

[MrFalconfly]

Thing is, why does it have to be persecuted or righteous?!?

Why can't it be like the US American ambassador in Denmark (Rufus Gifford)?

*image snip*

I mean, he's a nice bloke, who just happens to be gay, and the only thing extraordinary about him is the fact that he's an Ambassador for a nuclear superpower.

Why can't we have more gay characters in games who are like him?

But thats tokenism and tokenism is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

If you have a character where their sexual orientation or gender identity is relevant to the character or the plot its "shoving it down our throat", its "immersion breaking" and its "pandering".

If you have a character where their sexual orientation or gender identity isn't hugely relevant then its "tokenism", its "pointless" and its "pandering".

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some people say one thing, some people say the other thing and some people are bigots who say both because if they just outright said "I don't like it when LGBT people are in games" they'd (rightfully) be called a bigot.

I thought that was the opposite of "tokenism".

I thought "tokenism" was when the first thing that sprung to your mind about a character was "gay", or "black", or "woman".

A character that happens to be gay but the first thought would be "nice bloke" wouldn't be a token character.

Or am I missing something??

 

[Amaror]

Why am I not surprised that your favorite gay character would be one that wasn't gay until years after the books were finished as an after thought by the author.

Honestly, I'm not accusing you of homophobia, but when you're praising lgbt characters about how great they are that you don't have to see, hear, or know about them being gay I can't help but make that suggestion.

Why do you think it was an afterthought? What did you think his relationship with Grindelwald was? Just besties or what? Do you really think the character of Dumbledore would have been severly improved if the gentle, elderly man would often talk about all the dudes he had been screwing in his youth?

 

[johnnyboy2537]

I thought it looked like a glorified walking simulator and when I found the twist was that you're gay I couldn't stop laughing. I'm bi and couldn't care less. A boring game with a dumb twist in an attempt to pander to the idiotic far left PC seals in the gaming press who clapped their flippers together at the game being "progressive". To me it just looked like a poor attempt at drawing buzz. The funny thing is I've written a bunch of gay characters. In one of the stories, one of the characters simply gets tired of a girl hitting on him and bluntly tells her "I f*ck men" to get her off his back. Ultimately these people are just bad storytellers who, ironically, can only write cardboard cutout characters based on stereotypes because all they, and the gaming press, seem to see minorities as is tokens to be used when needed. The only game that comes mind with SocJus themes that didn't suck in terms of writing and story was The Last of Us but that's only because Neil Druckmann is a good writer who knows that blatant agenda pushing will ruin any story. It's one of the reasons why pretty much every Christian movie is god awful and every political movie these days, like Suffragette, is cringeworthy and not even worth watching. I don't even know if Gone Home was trying to push an agenda or they just slapped a half assed twist on it in a desperate bid for attention. Either way it sucked.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I thought it looked like a glorified walking simulator and when I found the twist was that you're gay I couldn't stop laughing.

The "twist", if there was one, was the subversion of plot expectation. The house isn't haunted, no one died, there's no mystery to solve. It's as much an interactive art piece as anything, and probably should have been marketed as such so that people who weren't in the target market wouldn't whine about it not meeting their expectations on forums.

The protagonist isn't given a sexuality one way or the other, btw. The keenness of your hated for this innocuous game will be felt MUCH more sharply by readers if you get your basic facts aligned.

 

[RedDeadFred]

It wasn't bad. Really nailed the atmosphere and the whole thing felt quite believable. I got it on sale for about 10 bucks, so I didn't feel as ripped off as others. Even still, I never felt compelled to replay the thing, so it's not as if the story was particularly great. I'd say it's definitely not worth the full price, but it's worth a playthrough if you can get it on sale.

 

[MrFalconfly]

snip

I guess it has something to do with my distaste for "portraying something that shouldn't be an issue, as the basis of a character".

It's just like if a female presidential candidate uses "I'm a woman" as a reason to vote for her (or a gay stylist using "I'm gay" on their resume).

But that's just me.

Also, I'm not saying that LGBT isn't an issue (especially not in the US). I'm just saying that it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Silvanus]

I guess it has something to do with my distaste for "portraying something that shouldn't be an issue, as the basis of a character".

Can I have a few examples of characters you would consider to be portrayed in such a way?

 

[MrFalconfly]

I guess it has something to do with my distaste for "portraying something that shouldn't be an issue, as the basis of a character".

Can I have a few examples of characters you would consider to be portrayed in such a way?

Oh I really do not want to restart the massive row I had with some of you regarding this character on this very forum, but here goes.

Kung Jin from MK X (and I know it's petty, because it's a fighting game with little to no character development but that's just an example that springs to mind). A character, who in my mind could have been about the importance of breaking through ones own fears, but instead turned into a "showcase" of how some people live today.

Another example would be Ellie from Last of Us.
Ellie didn't start off as one, but that "Left Behind" DLC, transformed her from a rather interesting side character, to a showcase of "gays can be games characters too".

As a complete antithesis I can only recommend the webcomic Sunstone (it's slightly NSFW).

It's a romance where the characters not only are gay, but also love BDSM, and as a person who isn't and doesn't I absolutely love it. It's such a sweet story.