(2016 Discussion) Gone Home

[johnnyboy2537]

I thought it looked like a glorified walking simulator and when I found the twist was that you're gay I couldn't stop laughing.

Thats not even accurate. The sexual orientation of the player character goes unmentioned. Also, its not a twist that the character that turns out to be gay is gay because, assuming you follow the direction the developers clearly intended for you, you find this out in the first ten minutes.

Maybe it was just the LP I was watching because it took that guy a while to find it.

Well you clearly haven't played it so I'm not sure if its fair to call it "boring".

The LP was absurdly boring but I managed to stick it out to see what the fuss was about.

You say this yet you don't even care enough to understand the actual writing in the game to understand what character is gay. The player character, the one that you think is gay, is barely characterized so if you're calling her a stereotype it doesn't really hold water.

How isn't the silent protagonist a cardboard cutout? The only silent protagonists I can honestly say I felt attached to were Gordon Freeman and Soap in CoD4. Even then they had inklings of a personality but they're really only one of the few silent protagonists from the last 20 years that I honestly think should have been silent protagonists in the first place. Because a lot of the time it feels like a Corvo from Dishonored type of situation where we're supposed to feel for and root for the character despite having no personality and there clearly being situations that he should have said something. That is when a silent protagonist actively hinders the game's story. They fixed it with Daud thankfully but it didn't stop the main game from blowing and it felt the same here. There were parts where it seemed like if the protagonist talked and reacted to things found in the game it actually would have made it better, more enjoyable, and possibly even somewhat compelling. Instead we just got someone walking around a house that they're supposedly supposed to have some sort of emotional reaction to. Some of the letters found in the game were actually well written and occasionally felt like they showed the personality of the person writing them but most of them simply bored me.

You say this yet you don't even care enough to understand the actual writing in the game to understand what character is gay. The player character, the one that you think is gay, is barely characterized so if you're calling her a stereotype it doesn't really hold water.

I might be mixing up the player character and the sister. After a while of watching something dull I probably started mixing up characters. The whole relationship the sister is in is absurdly unhealthy and absurd in general(now that I've had time to look this stuff up again). After a while it becomes obvious that the sister's happiness is dependent on her girlfriend being around and becomes suicidal and what saves her? Her girlfriend deciding not to join the military and then they run away to live happily ever after in a trailer park stealing food from the nearby farm because neither of them thought out how any of this was going to go and eventually they both get fat and die after being bitten by a rabid raccoon(eventually I got so bored watching the game and called the ending between the two correctly and started coming up stories of what happened to them after they ran off). But basically all the problems in the relationship are somehow the parent's fault because they're homophobic rather than the fact that their relationship is absurdly bad. That they ran away and were given a happy ending only made me laugh. Their relationship is made out to be purely good by the game rather than toxic for the obvious dependency problems which ultimately ruined the "happy ending". It's inconsistent writing. It wants to acknowledge certain hard truths while completely ignoring others.

LGBT people being noted to exist in the game's world = "SJWism themes", gotcha.

No. Writing LGBT people and minorities as flawless human beings is something SJWs do. LGBT people certainly aren't perfect looking at the domestic violence statistics. I've written plenty of gay characters, I'm certainly far from an SJW, and do you know what I do? I write them as human beings and human beings have flaws, imperfections, and even demons. That's what the Last of Us got right. Do you think that any of these people would've have written Bill as gay? A fat slob who talks to himself(and is clearly slowly going insane if he hasn't already) and is the worst thing of all to these people: a white man? Do you think that any of these people would have thought to have his relationship end like that? Gone Home certainly didn't and it should have. It might have actually made an emotional impact. Instead it just feels like a bad romance novel where we don't even know either of the people in the relationship, even though one of the people is our sister.

Well thats because you didn't play the game. Or at least, if you did you didn't even bother to actually pay attention to the plot.

Pssst, there weren't really any narrative themes in the game. The only thing connecting any of the narratives were personal growth and it doesn't even apply to all of them.

I watched LPs. It's possible that the person I was watching was just terrible at it but even after I put the pieces together it didn't make it any more compelling. It's something absurdly shallow attempting to be deep and failing because it doesn't understand that everything isn't black and white. I realized the whole thing is basically wish fulfillment after I found out a lot of was written by actual gay people who grew up in the 90s. I'm not even sure if that makes this worse or better.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

i didn't like any of the characters. the parents were homophobes and the daughter was just kind of a prick. i felt sorry for her for having such terrible parents but she wasn't particularly likeable or relateable

 

[johnnyboy2537]

I thought it looked like a glorified walking simulator and when I found the twist was that you're gay I couldn't stop laughing.

The "twist", if there was one, was the subversion of plot expectation. The house isn't haunted, no one died, there's no mystery to solve. It's as much an interactive art piece as anything, and probably should have been marketed as such so that people who weren't in the target market wouldn't whine about it not meeting their expectations on forums.

The protagonist isn't given a sexuality one way or the other, btw. The keenness of your hated for this innocuous game will be felt MUCH more sharply by readers if you get your basic facts aligned.

I was wrong and it was the sister that was gay, it's been a while since I watched the LPs so I went back to find them. It was a small twist that just made me laugh because it was trying to be compelling and relevant but failed miserably in my eyes, which is funny because this seemed to be trying to cater to people like me. The marketing probably is to blame for a lot of the complaints and problems with it. Ultimately I don't even know if it's good as an interactive art piece because it felt like it failed to me in a lot of what it was trying to accomplish. By the end I couldn't name one noticeable thing about any of the characters by the end except that the sister was gay and the parents were homophobic despite the fact that it was trying to sell itself on its political message. The fact that it was written by actual gay people who grew up in the 90s probably made it worse because they didn't treat the characters like people so they could push their message. They treated Sam and her girlfriend as purely good, despite the fact that their relationship clearly wasn't a healthy one but they glorified it anyway, and we learn next to nothing about the parents except that they're homophobic and have marriage troubles, neither of which is interesting or presented in an interesting way. It sacrificed a lot to push its message of "homophobia's bad" and could have been a lot better if they decided to completely delve into all sides of it. Instead they only pushed one side and it came off as lazy.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It was a small twist that just made me laugh because it was trying to be compelling and relevant but failed miserably in my eyes, which is funny because this seemed to be trying to cater to people like me.

Well again though, that wasn't a twist, or "the twist". The "twist", insomuch as there was one, was the subversion of the 3 spooky 5 me atmosphere and the revelation that this wasn't a horror game at all, but just a coming of age story experienced by proxy. An inversion of the standard gaming audience expectation. No wizards, no aliens, no space marines, just a pubescent love story and a family's rather banal and ordinary problems. That's clever, but it's clever in a way someone coming in expecting and wanting a horror game is going to find deeply annoying.

...it was trying to sell itself on its political message.

...didn't treat the characters like people so they could push their message.

It sacrificed a lot to push its message of "homophobia's bad"...

Yeah I...don't know what to tell you. Maybe I played a different version of Gone Home, but it didn't strike me as much of an "issue" or political game at all. It felt like a pet project. Accusations that it's a "walking simulator" stick to some degree, although I tend to find such complaints reductive and very limiting in terms of the scope of what games can aspire to be, but there's not a lot of "traditional game play" there to appeal to grognards so I understand the slight. Political though? Meh.

Spec Ops The Line...THAT is a political game. It's 95% messaging, 5% wonky shooter. Everyone seemed happy enough with it, though. Even something like Hatred is a purely political game, even if it's politics are 50 Shades of Nihilism. Gone Home is too earnest and dorky to be effectively political.

 

[johnnyboy2537]

Well again though, that wasn't a twist, or "the twist". The "twist", insomuch as there was one, was the subversion of the 3 spooky 5 me atmosphere and the revelation that this wasn't a horror game at all, but just a coming of age story experienced by proxy. An inversion of the standard gaming audience expectation. No wizards, no aliens, no space marines, just a pubescent love story and a family's rather banal and ordinary problems. That's clever, but it's clever in a way someone coming in expecting and wanting a horror game is going to find deeply annoying.

I feel like this one is a small misunderstanding. It felt like it was put in there as a twist, it is set in the 90s and has gay writers, but it was ultimately so generic and poorly done that whether or not it was even twist is still debated. That probably could have been rectified if it wasn't for the game having a silent protagonist. There are good ways to write gay relaitonships and characters but this was just poorly done in my eyes.

Yeah I...don't know what to tell you. Maybe I played a different version of Gone Home, but it didn't strike me as much of an "issue" or political game at all. It felt like a pet project. Accusations that it's a "walking simulator" stick to some degree, although I tend to find such complaints reductive and very limiting in terms of the scope of what games can aspire to be, but there's not a lot of "traditional game play" there to appeal to grognards so I understand the slight. Political though? Meh.

Spec Ops The Line...THAT is a political game. It's 95% messaging, 5% wonky shooter. Everyone seemed happy enough with it, though. Even something like Hatred is a purely political game, even if it's politics are 50 Shades of Nihilism. Gone Home is too earnest and dorky to be effectively political.

Outside of the game that is how it was pushed though, at least by the gaming press but then again they're retarded. Spec Ops was great despite a few obvious plot holes(like why Adams and Lugo kept following Walker despite him clearly having lost his mind) because of its strong writing and emphasis on the characters. It didn't put the message first and sacrifice the characters and plot for the sake of their message. It got there slowly and organically, the characters slowly descending into the belly of the beast and madness both figurative and literally. They didn't suddenly go "war is hell". The characters got there through circumstances that fit the themes and their character arcs. They did something horrible by accident and it destroyed them. A lot of things also added to it like the increasing disturbing visuals in the background and the executions becoming more and more brutal as well as Walker's lines when doing them.

Hatred ultimately sucked for a number of reasons not related to its political message, like Gone Home, but it wasn't trying to push it's message when it came to marketing. It just seemed to be a top down Postal. Whether or not the message was even political is something I'm not even sure about. I'm pretty sure it was just the developers establishing that this guy is crazy and that's why he's doing this. Spec Ops was pushed as a shooter with well written characters and story as well the WP scene after it was released. It was marketed as a generic shooter so that people would be surprised by the dark story and it succeeded. Spec Ops was obviously trying to push a message but was well written and engaging in many ways which is where Gone Home failed in my eyes. The characters aren't interesting and there's no real plot to pull you in. You go home and find your sister ran off with her girlfriend because your parents are homophobic and you figure all this out by looking for letters in your house. The sister came off as annoying and unlikable, the parents were basically only noted for being homophobic and not having a perfect marriage(which is hardly notable), and you're a silent protagonist who should actually be talking and reacting to things. It's tries to be subtle in its agenda pushing but comes off as obvious to me because of how they chose to tell it. I can get if you don't see that way but when you see that the primary thing pushing the game's "plot" is letters and collectibles it becomes really obvious. It just pushed its message badly. I'm not against LGBT rights as much as the rest of the community annoys me so I have no problem with the message. I think it was just done terribly.

 

[Silvanus]

Oh I really do not want to restart the massive row I had with some of you regarding this character on this very forum, but here goes.

Kung Jin from MK X (and I know it's petty, because it's a fighting game with little to no character development but that's just an example that springs to mind). A character, who in my mind could have been about the importance of breaking through ones own fears, but instead turned into a "showcase" of how some people live today.

Another example would be Ellie from Last of Us.
Ellie didn't start off as one, but that "Left Behind" DLC, transformed her from a rather interesting side character, to a showcase of "gays can be games characters too".

Righto. Just wanted to see whether we have entirely different judgements on this, and now know we do. I wouldn't consider those characters to have their sexuality as the "basis for their character" in a thousand years; the former mentions it in a single line (hardly basis-forming), and the latter has countless interactions that do not relate to it at all, several deep friendships formed with other characters which do not relate to it at all, and a single sub-plot which relates to it (in a way not unlike straight characters do all the time).

This just seems to be the trap of writing gay characters. Write them with only a single passing mention, and people will still decry them as using their sexuality as the "basis of the character". Write them precisely as straight characters are written, and the line is the same. The accusation is unavoidable. Utterly unavoidable.

It's tries to be subtle in its agenda pushing but comes off as obvious to me because of how they chose to tell it. I can get if you don't see that way but when you see that the primary thing pushing the game's "plot" is letters and collectibles it becomes really obvious. It just pushed its message badly. I'm not against LGBT rights as much as the rest of the community annoys me so I have no problem with the message. I think it was just done terribly.

What makes it "agenda-pushing", though, really? The relationship is gay, sure; had it been a straight one, with a similar plot and gameplay, nobody would think twice about whether it had an "agenda". It wouldn't even come up. The mere presence of a gay relationship is not an agenda-- when I'm walking down the street, I'm not agendering any-damn-body.

The only impact of sexuality, really, is the parents' reaction. But that's a perfectly accurate depiction of stuff that goes on. There's no reason not to show it in art. There's no reason real situations should be kept out of games.

 

[MrFalconfly]

snip

Yeah well.

It seems to be a case of (as MarsAtlas said) "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

EDIT:

Honestly, I recommend looking at that Webcomic I mentioned before. It's really quite good.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Total apathy from me. As I've said before, it's a bland game with a bland story in which nothing the player does matters. Everything important has already happened. There's nothing at stake. You just listen to a girl brag about her love life for two hours. I wouldn't even wanna hear all that if I actually had a sibling whom I found out was gay. Big deal. Why should I care? I want to feel involved in the events as they unfold, rather than being told them by an unrelatable character whose face I rarely see. A backstory is all this game is. A backstory that supports nothing. Your actions are inconsequential and you're not there in the moment to care about the situation.

Nonsense. Coming to understand and appreciate your closest family member's deepest secrets has less consequence than killing a bunch of aliens on board a spaceship? I think not.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Oh I really do not want to restart the massive row I had with some of you regarding this character on this very forum, but here goes.

Kung Jin from MK X (and I know it's petty, because it's a fighting game with little to no character development but that's just an example that springs to mind). A character, who in my mind could have been about the importance of breaking through ones own fears, but instead turned into a "showcase" of how some people live today.

Another example would be Ellie from Last of Us.
Ellie didn't start off as one, but that "Left Behind" DLC, transformed her from a rather interesting side character, to a showcase of "gays can be games characters too".

Righto. Just wanted to see whether we have entirely different judgements on this, and now know we do. I wouldn't consider those characters to have their sexuality as the "basis for their character" in a thousand years; the former mentions it in a single line (hardly basis-forming), and the latter has countless interactions that do not relate to it at all, several deep friendships formed with other characters which do not relate to it at all, and a single sub-plot which relates to it (in a way not unlike straight characters do all the time).

This just seems to be the trap of writing gay characters. Write them with only a single passing mention, and people will still decry them as using their sexuality as the "basis of the character". Write them precisely as straight characters are written, and the line is the same. The accusation is unavoidable. Utterly unavoidable.

It's tries to be subtle in its agenda pushing but comes off as obvious to me because of how they chose to tell it. I can get if you don't see that way but when you see that the primary thing pushing the game's "plot" is letters and collectibles it becomes really obvious. It just pushed its message badly. I'm not against LGBT rights as much as the rest of the community annoys me so I have no problem with the message. I think it was just done terribly.

What makes it "agenda-pushing", though, really? The relationship is gay, sure; had it been a straight one, with a similar plot and gameplay, nobody would think twice about whether it had an "agenda". It wouldn't even come up. The mere presence of a gay relationship is not an agenda-- when I'm walking down the street, I'm not agendering any-damn-body.

The only impact of sexuality, really, is the parents' reaction. But that's a perfectly accurate depiction of stuff that goes on. There's no reason not to show it in art. There's no reason real situations should be kept out of games.

Or maybe it is linked to my distaste of unnecessary love interests?

Because after taking a second look, it's clearly not gay characters that's the issue.

Honestly, I think I may have put too much unfair focus on gay love-interests, when it should have been vapid love-interests in general (gay or straight).

EDIT:
I mean, what's with all the love interests in Mass Effect?!?

You're fighting an interstellar war, not looking for alien poon to bone.

 

[Silvanus]

Or maybe it is linked to my distaste of unnecessary love interests?

Because after taking a second look, it's clearly not gay characters that's the issue.

Honestly, I think I may have put too much unfair focus on gay love-interests, when it should have been vapid love-interests in general (gay or straight).

See, there's something I could agree with, and in film just as badly (if not more so).