2020 - the new decade, the new era, new games. whats your most anticipated ones?

Johnny Novgorod

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Vendor-Lazarus said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
The decade ends December 31st 2020. It's 1 through 10, not 0 through 9.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decade
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/21/us/when-does-the-decade-end-begin-trnd/index.html
 

Drathnoxis

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B-Cell said:
Drathnoxis said:
I'm interested in seeing how the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress turns out and if the game will finally become playable as a result.

Also, Shenmue 4 and a resolution to D4 while I'm being wishful.
knowing how badly shenmue 3 failed and perform.

shenmue 4 wont happen.
Yeah, that's what everybody said about Shenmue 3!
 

Silvanus

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Johnny Novgorod said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/21/us/when-does-the-decade-end-begin-trnd/index.html
An article that says it depends on who you ask?

Oh, good! We can carry on then.
 

stroopwafel

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Phoenixmgs said:
With Souls design, I'm talking about the whole bonfire, estus flask, respawning enemies, souls/exp loss on death, and probably a couple more elements that other games copy for no reason and they only fit in Souls and only Souls because that stuff makes sense only in that world and on the whole, it's really only OK game design to begin with. Even Sekiro, none of that stuff makes sense in its world, and the Souls design elements only bring the game down. I find it hilarious that people think Souls created a new genre when Souls is simply a take on dungeon crawlers. We don't need every developer making the same exact type of dungeon crawler that From decided to make. Same thing happened with roguelikes and immersive sims to a less extent. Genres are BROAD, and don't include copying the exact design of a singular game. Mark Brown [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7BWayWu08] perfectly encapsulates the problem of copying a single game.
Some of the best games are iterative. Dark Souls 3 is one of my most favorite games of all time and it couldn't be more iterative if it tried. If a design framework is excellent(like the Souls one) it isn't necessary to re-invent the wheel over and over. Infact, having an established 'mold' mean all resources can be put into making other parts of the game shine. Which in DkS3's case mean the astonishing art design and enemy variety and atmosphere that feels like the design team had an extended stay in the Capuchin crypt in Palermo.

Nioh was held back by still trying to find it's footing with some excessive padding and low enemy variety but more than compensated with what is probably the most satisfying melee combat to date. Unlike Souls(which I feel is always primarily designed around sword & shield) Nioh's extensive move and weapon set felt more diverse as in given more equally given attention to rather than the more artisan crafted Souls where the pieces fit more neatly together. Nioh is more overbearing in it's loot and systems but at the same time also understands how to perfect combat mechanics in a way that they remain engaging even after dozens and dozens of hours play with primarily only a handful of enemies and recycled environments.

So, that Nioh adopts the Souls framework isn't a bad thing as it allows the developers to focus on what they are good at. It's also exactly this iteration that makes me excited for Nioh 2. They already learned a lot from making the first game and from player feedback. It doesn't speak to the imagination as much as a From Software game(meaning there is more to a game's design rather than just mechanics) but the minutiae of Nioh are so different that every comparison stops beyond a surface level.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Silvanus said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/21/us/when-does-the-decade-end-begin-trnd/index.html
An article that says it depends on who you ask?

Oh, good! We can carry on then.
Happy to educate!
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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stroopwafel said:
Some of the best games are iterative. Dark Souls 3 is one of my most favorite games of all time and it couldn't be more iterative if it tried. If a design framework is excellent(like the Souls one) it isn't necessary to re-invent the wheel over and over. Infact, having an established 'mold' mean all resources can be put into making other parts of the game shine. Which in DkS3's case mean the astonishing art design and enemy variety and atmosphere that feels like the design team had an extended stay in the Capuchin crypt in Palermo.

Nioh was held back by still trying to find it's footing with some excessive padding and low enemy variety but more than compensated with what is probably the most satisfying melee combat to date. Unlike Souls(which I feel is always primarily designed around sword & shield) Nioh's extensive move and weapon set felt more diverse as in given more equally given attention to rather than the more artisan crafted Souls where the pieces fit more neatly together. Nioh is more overbearing in it's loot and systems but at the same time also understands how to perfect combat mechanics in a way that they remain engaging even after dozens and dozens of hours play with primarily only a handful of enemies and recycled environments.

So, that Nioh adopts the Souls framework isn't a bad thing as it allows the developers to focus on what they are good at. It's also exactly this iteration that makes me excited for Nioh 2. They already learned a lot from making the first game and from player feedback. It doesn't speak to the imagination as much as a From Software game(meaning there is more to a game's design rather than just mechanics) but the minutiae of Nioh are so different that every comparison stops beyond a surface level.
I'm not criticizing sequels for being too similar to their prior games but new IPs that really aren't new IPs if you borrow so heavily from another game. And, I'm also not saying Nioh doesn't have aspects that make it its own thing but those aspects are similar to a round peg trying to fit in the square hole of Souls design. You mention Nioh with regards to how great it's combat is, which is totally a different core than what Dark Souls is. Sekiro has the same issue using Souls design when it's a different game that actually has more in common with Shadow of the Colossus than it does with Souls. Nioh should surround its core game with elements that support it vs cribbing Souls design that doesn't support combat because combat isn't the core of Souls.
 

CritialGaming

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Phoenixmgs said:
I'm not criticizing sequels for being too similar to their prior games but new IPs that really aren't new IPs if you borrow so heavily from another game. And, I'm also not saying Nioh doesn't have aspects that make it its own thing but those aspects are similar to a round peg trying to fit in the square hole of Souls design. You mention Nioh with regards to how great it's combat is, which is totally a different core than what Dark Souls is. Sekiro has the same issue using Souls design when it's a different game that actually has more in common with Shadow of the Colossus than it does with Souls. Nioh should surround its core game with elements that support it vs cribbing Souls design that doesn't support combat because combat isn't the core of Souls.
But Nioh is its own thing.

The only thing it borrows from Souls is having a similar dying mechanic in which you have to get back to your body to get your experience back. And respawning at various shrines in the level. That's it.

The combat is entirely different. The levels are entirely different. You cannot teleport between shrines. The Loot system is entirely different. The crafting is different. Character builds work differently. The combat system is total different.

I don't understand how you can keep criticizing Nioh for being too Souls-like, when it's clear you haven't given Nioh enough of a thought to make that comparison at all.

And for that matter, comparing games to Souls at all is a totally new concept that I think need to give Dark Souls a level of credit. I mean the Souls series absolutely started an entire genre of games and I think it needs to get credit for that. However I do think that people go way overboard in comparing games to Souls.

Cuphead is Souls-like....Errr no it isn't. It's a bullet hell game and those games have always been hard. Difficulty does not a Souls game make.

Of course some games earn the comparison, Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, Remnant from the Ashes, Ashen, these games are directly trying to make the Souls-like experience.

Then there are other games that might have inspirations from the Souls series, but aren't direct copies of that formula. Salt and Sanctuary, Dead Cells, and Nioh are examples of that. Games that look at the Souls games and try to modify that idea into something completely new. Which I believe they are successful at doing.


I get that you don't like the Souls games. You are not a fan of that formula and that's fine, but you shouldn't just dismiss other games that even slightly look like a Souls game based on two minutes of gameplay footage or whatever. Now it's perfectly fine to not even want to touch that style of game, like looking at Nioh and going "naw, not for me" that's fine. But you say things like it's too much of a copy without knowing enough to say that.

Like Sekiro, you say it uses the Souls design, when it doesn't. It has very little in common with Souls except for maybe the checkpoint system. But again, combat is different, character builds are different, there is virtually no loot, it's got a much different movement system, map design, all of that stuff is not Souls in anyway.

Now it's from the same guy so yes there is a similar style, or atmosphere, but you can look around to many souls forums and subreddits and there were a lot of Souls fans that hated Sekiro because it wasn't at all like Souls. Mainly because Sekiro does not offer the player any freedom in how you play. You have to play Sekiro a very specfic way and if you don't you are fucked.
 

Yoshi178

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CritialGaming said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I don't understand how you can keep criticizing Nioh for being too Souls-like, when it's clear you haven't given Nioh enough of a thought to make that comparison at all.
he likes to criticise others like myself for not trying games that he likes but god forbid he'll ever try something new and outside his own comfort zone himself
 

CritialGaming

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Yoshi178 said:
]he likes to criticise others like myself for not trying games that he likes but god forbid he'll ever try something new and outside his own comfort zone himself
Why not try to be civil about things and not deliberately call people out for no reason?
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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CritialGaming said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I'm not criticizing sequels for being too similar to their prior games but new IPs that really aren't new IPs if you borrow so heavily from another game. And, I'm also not saying Nioh doesn't have aspects that make it its own thing but those aspects are similar to a round peg trying to fit in the square hole of Souls design. You mention Nioh with regards to how great it's combat is, which is totally a different core than what Dark Souls is. Sekiro has the same issue using Souls design when it's a different game that actually has more in common with Shadow of the Colossus than it does with Souls. Nioh should surround its core game with elements that support it vs cribbing Souls design that doesn't support combat because combat isn't the core of Souls.
But Nioh is its own thing.

The only thing it borrows from Souls is having a similar dying mechanic in which you have to get back to your body to get your experience back. And respawning at various shrines in the level. That's it.

The combat is entirely different. The levels are entirely different. You cannot teleport between shrines. The Loot system is entirely different. The crafting is different. Character builds work differently. The combat system is total different.

I don't understand how you can keep criticizing Nioh for being too Souls-like, when it's clear you haven't given Nioh enough of a thought to make that comparison at all.

And for that matter, comparing games to Souls at all is a totally new concept that I think need to give Dark Souls a level of credit. I mean the Souls series absolutely started an entire genre of games and I think it needs to get credit for that. However I do think that people go way overboard in comparing games to Souls.

Cuphead is Souls-like....Errr no it isn't. It's a bullet hell game and those games have always been hard. Difficulty does not a Souls game make.

Of course some games earn the comparison, Lords of the Fallen, The Surge, Remnant from the Ashes, Ashen, these games are directly trying to make the Souls-like experience.

Then there are other games that might have inspirations from the Souls series, but aren't direct copies of that formula. Salt and Sanctuary, Dead Cells, and Nioh are examples of that. Games that look at the Souls games and try to modify that idea into something completely new. Which I believe they are successful at doing.

I get that you don't like the Souls games. You are not a fan of that formula and that's fine, but you shouldn't just dismiss other games that even slightly look like a Souls game based on two minutes of gameplay footage or whatever. Now it's perfectly fine to not even want to touch that style of game, like looking at Nioh and going "naw, not for me" that's fine. But you say things like it's too much of a copy without knowing enough to say that.

Like Sekiro, you say it uses the Souls design, when it doesn't. It has very little in common with Souls except for maybe the checkpoint system. But again, combat is different, character builds are different, there is virtually no loot, it's got a much different movement system, map design, all of that stuff is not Souls in anyway.

Now it's from the same guy so yes there is a similar style, or atmosphere, but you can look around to many souls forums and subreddits and there were a lot of Souls fans that hated Sekiro because it wasn't at all like Souls. Mainly because Sekiro does not offer the player any freedom in how you play. You have to play Sekiro a very specfic way and if you don't you are fucked.
Like I said above, what I'm referring to as "Souls" design is stuff like bonfires, estus flask, respawning enemies, losing exp/money on death, homeward bone, etc. Nioh and Sekiro have ALL of those just renamed. Thus, it's using Souls design. That stuff only makes sense in the world of Souls and makes no sense in other worlds. It makes no damn sense in Sekiro (either to the game or the world itself). I played the beta of Nioh and I'm probably at least halfway through Sekiro (got distracted by other games). I can tell from playing Nioh's beta that the Souls design elements and loot is only added fluff that distracts from the core (Team Ninja combat). It's not like Team Ninja already made really good and really hard combat games previously that were totally devoid of those elements and they worked just fine (with no fluff). Raw damage increases just shouldn't be done via loot, other stuff like 5% bonus to X, 10% bonus to Y, etc is good.

Sekiro's Souls elements directly hurt it's core game (the Sekiro combat system of fighting 1v1 bosses/mini-bosses), it actually has more in common with Shadow of the Colossus than Souls; a game that was all about 1v1 boss fights. The mobs in Sekiro are there as fluff because they really don't help in teaching you the combat because they're so easy, plus the stealth is excruciatingly average (and makes them even easier bypassing the combat system and difficulty entirely, the CORE of the game). The fact that enemies respawn on death makes you rekill mobs just so you can fight the mini-boss again because you can't have mobs interrupting your boss fight because the combat system only works well in 1v1 fights and why even have mobs when, again, the combat is tuned to 1v1 fights. All that accomplishes is wasting player time, same with the losing of exp/money on death. Souls was about getting from one checkpoint to another without dying, Sekiro isn't; thus Souls design makes no sense.

Yoshi178 said:
he likes to criticise others like myself for not trying games that he likes but god forbid he'll ever try something new and outside his own comfort zone himself
I'm always looking for NEW games that are different, Outer Wilds is next on my list to play after watching Skillup's 2019 top 10. I might just play it real soon as I started Outer Worlds and it's honestly boring me at the start. I obviously played Disco Elysium the second I heard about it. You can check my PlayStation trophies if you want and my Steam library (you can check that right?), Phoenixmgs for both. Have you ever played an actual RPG as JRPGs really aren't RPGs.

Have you ever got "into" a fighting game other than Smash to even understand why the majority of the community doesn't consider it a fighting game? I personally couldn't care less about Smash and fighting games, they take too long to "git gud" at and I'd also want to buy a fighting stick too.
 

CritialGaming

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Phoenixmgs said:
Like I said above, what I'm referring to as "Souls" design is stuff like bonfires, estus flask, respawning enemies, losing exp/money on death, homeward bone, etc. Nioh and Sekiro have ALL of those just renamed. Thus, it's using Souls design. That stuff only makes sense in the world of Souls and makes no sense in other worlds. It makes no damn sense in Sekiro (either to the game or the world itself). I played the beta of Nioh and I'm probably at least halfway through Sekiro (got distracted by other games). I can tell from playing Nioh's beta that the Souls design elements and loot is only added fluff that distracts from the core (Team Ninja combat). It's not like Team Ninja already made really good and really hard combat games previously that were totally devoid of those elements and they worked just fine (with no fluff). Raw damage increases just shouldn't be done via loot, other stuff like 5% bonus to X, 10% bonus to Y, etc is good.

Sekiro's Souls elements directly hurt it's core game (the Sekiro combat system of fighting 1v1 bosses/mini-bosses), it actually has more in common with Shadow of the Colossus than Souls; a game that was all about 1v1 boss fights. The mobs in Sekiro are there as fluff because they really don't help in teaching you the combat because they're so easy, plus the stealth is excruciatingly average (and makes them even easier bypassing the combat system and difficulty entirely, the CORE of the game). The fact that enemies respawn on death makes you rekill mobs just so you can fight the mini-boss again because you can't have mobs interrupting your boss fight because the combat system only works well in 1v1 fights and why even have mobs when, again, the combat is tuned to 1v1 fights. All that accomplishes is wasting player time, same with the losing of exp/money on death. Souls was about getting from one checkpoint to another without dying, Sekiro isn't; thus Souls design makes no sense.
FYI your steam profile is private so we can't see it. But i did look into your PSN profile.

I like how you criticize loot, but you played the hell out of borderlands. There is also something in the Souls formula you like based on how much you've played DS1 and Bloodborne (At least on PSN), so I'm wondering why you are so down on the mechanics being in place in other games.

Enemies respawning is not a souls thing. Every First person shooter that I know of respawns the enemies. Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Crash, Spyro, all these games bring back the enemies when you die.

Much of what you label as Souls-elements are not strictly Souls innovations. Much of the Souls mechanics have been in place since the NES days.

The reason Sekiro respawns enemies despite how the combat serves as a 1v1 system is to prevent the player from being able to mindlessly face slam into the mini bosses, however even that isn't entirely true as there are lots of bosses where you can simply run past the fodder and go right into the fight with the boss alone. So that complaint falls through pretty quickly. Losing the exp and money on death is far less important than losing souls or echoes in bloodborne because the skills in Sekiro are niche at best and useless most other times. It's fundamental loop requires you to simply learn and master the parry, and therefore dying and losing out on the exp and money is virtually meaningless.

So if you take that away your only other complaint is Nioh's use of loot. Which again I look at all your Borderlands achievements and wonder why it's okay in one game but not the other. I would argue that Nioh applied itself to a looter better than Borderlands because Nioh is mission based and it's really easy to sort through your loot between missions before when you aren't in the middle of an action packed level. You simply gather gear during the mission and equip it afterwards before you jump into the next mission. There is no reason to constantly sort through the piles of loot that the level gives you.

This is definitively a YOU problem, not a game design problem.
 

Yoshi178

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Phoenixmgs said:
Yoshi178 said:
he likes to criticise others like myself for not trying games that he likes but god forbid he'll ever try something new and outside his own comfort zone himself
I'm always looking for NEW games that are different, Outer Wilds is next on my list to play after watching Skillup's 2019 top 10. I might just play it real soon as I started Outer Worlds and it's honestly boring me at the start. I obviously played Disco Elysium the second I heard about it. You can check my PlayStation trophies if you want and my Steam library (you can check that right?), Phoenixmgs for both. Have you ever played an actual RPG as JRPGs really aren't RPGs.

Have you ever got "into" a fighting game other than Smash to even understand why the majority of the community doesn't consider it a fighting game? I personally couldn't care less about Smash and fighting games, they take too long to "git gud" at and I'd also want to buy a fighting stick too.
many. Tekken 3, Dead or alive 4, Marvel vs Capcom 3, Mortal Kombat 10 & 11, multiple Street fighter titles.

i understand why the fighting community thinks that. doesn't mean i have to agree with that view though sorry.

as for your RPG comment, i've played the Pokemon games. those games are RPG's. nawwww what's that? Pokemon isn't a good enough RPG for you?
i've also played Earthbound. awww but that's a Nintendo game. my bad, nothing made by Nintendo counts in your eyes at all does it? how bout i fix that.
what about Star Wars KOTR and KOTR II? although i'm sure you'll find a way to make those RPG games not count either.
 

Avnger

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Yoshi178 said:
as for your RPG comment, i've played the Pokemon games. those games are RPG's. nawwww what's that? Pokemon isn't a good enough RPG for you?
i've also played Earthbound. awww but that's a Nintendo game. my bad, nothing made by Nintendo counts in your eyes at all does it? how bout i fix that.
what about Star Wars KOTR and KOTR II? although i'm sure you'll find a way to make those RPG games not count either.
 

Dalisclock

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Disco Elysium 2: Electric Bagaloo.

Just kidding. In all seriousness and in no particular order:

Kerbal Space Program 2
Homeworld 3
Horizon Zero Dawn 2(there were a number of plot threads from the first which need to be addressed).
Trials of Mana Remake on PC
Hollow Knight: Silksong
Subnautica: Below Zero(Full Release)
Hades(Full Release)

Maybe Kentucky Route Zero will finally get it's final episode this year but at this point they're running on Valve time so who knows? I love the game but the it's starting to rival George RR Martin for increasing time between releases, except for the fact that KRZ episodes are like 90 minutes long and RR writes 1000 page doorstoppers so I'm not sure exactly what the holdup is.
 

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Drathnoxis said:
B-Cell said:
Drathnoxis said:
I'm interested in seeing how the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress turns out and if the game will finally become playable as a result.

Also, Shenmue 4 and a resolution to D4 while I'm being wishful.
knowing how badly shenmue 3 failed and perform.

shenmue 4 wont happen.
Yeah, that's what everybody said about Shenmue 3!
Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You might get Shenmue 4 but it'll probably be another decade....and end on another cliffhanger...and look exactly the same as Shenmue 1-3 do...and Ryo will still be looking for Sailors.
 

Yoshi178

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Avnger said:
Yoshi178 said:
as for your RPG comment, i've played the Pokemon games. those games are RPG's. nawwww what's that? Pokemon isn't a good enough RPG for you?
i've also played Earthbound. awww but that's a Nintendo game. my bad, nothing made by Nintendo counts in your eyes at all does it? how bout i fix that.
what about Star Wars KOTR and KOTR II? although i'm sure you'll find a way to make those RPG games not count either.
that car must of hurt you alot.
maybe next time you'll actually think of a point to come back at me with.
 

Avnger

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Yoshi178 said:
Avnger said:
Yoshi178 said:
as for your RPG comment, i've played the Pokemon games. those games are RPG's. nawwww what's that? Pokemon isn't a good enough RPG for you?
i've also played Earthbound. awww but that's a Nintendo game. my bad, nothing made by Nintendo counts in your eyes at all does it? how bout i fix that.
what about Star Wars KOTR and KOTR II? although i'm sure you'll find a way to make those RPG games not count either.
that car must of hurt you alot.
maybe next time you'll actually think of a point to come back at me with.
Did you mix up who you've been talking to? This is the first time I've posted in this thread. I just found the brazen martyrdom in your post funny. Even if I was Phoenix though, that was a rather poor "no u" attempt.
 

Yoshi178

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Avnger said:
Yoshi178 said:
Avnger said:
Yoshi178 said:
as for your RPG comment, i've played the Pokemon games. those games are RPG's. nawwww what's that? Pokemon isn't a good enough RPG for you?
i've also played Earthbound. awww but that's a Nintendo game. my bad, nothing made by Nintendo counts in your eyes at all does it? how bout i fix that.
what about Star Wars KOTR and KOTR II? although i'm sure you'll find a way to make those RPG games not count either.
that car must of hurt you alot.
maybe next time you'll actually think of a point to come back at me with.
Did you mix up who you've been talking to? This is the first time I've posted in this thread. I just found the brazen martyrdom in your post funny. Even if I was Phoenix though, that was a rather poor "no u" attempt.
not at all. in fact i never have conversations with you. i only ever get your "le epic" meme's and gif's you love to post when you want to mock me but have absolutely nothing better to say after all.

cool, you found my post funny. still doesn't change the fact that phoenix wanted RPG's that i've played and i gave him some. whether you guys like those RPG's or not is entirely irrelevant.
 

Drathnoxis

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Dalisclock said:
Drathnoxis said:
B-Cell said:
Drathnoxis said:
I'm interested in seeing how the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress turns out and if the game will finally become playable as a result.

Also, Shenmue 4 and a resolution to D4 while I'm being wishful.
knowing how badly shenmue 3 failed and perform.

shenmue 4 wont happen.
Yeah, that's what everybody said about Shenmue 3!
Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You might get Shenmue 4 but it'll probably be another decade....and end on another cliffhanger...and look exactly the same as Shenmue 1-3 do...and Ryo will still be looking for Sailors.
Hey, Shenmue 3 actually has some very pretty environments and the sailors thing is just a massive misrepresentation of the game. In the series as a whole Ryo has spent around 65% of the time asking about thugs and gang members and only 1% looking for sailors.
 

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CritialGaming said:
Yoshi178 said:
]he likes to criticise others like myself for not trying games that he likes but god forbid he'll ever try something new and outside his own comfort zone himself
Why not try to be civil about things and not deliberately call people out for no reason?
I say old chap, THIS is the internet!