Modern MMOs "Barely Even Games," Says Former Guild Wars Dev

[Logan Westbrook]

Modern MMOs "Barely Even Games," Says Former Guild Wars Dev

Self-confessed "console guy" Richard Foge thinks that MMOs get an easy ride, but none of them is even as good as Mario 64.

Richard Foge, who has worked on such diverse games as Guild Wars [http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-Trilogy-Pc/dp/B001DI6O6C/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1288877263&sr=1-1], SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs - Fireteam Bravo [http://www.amazon.com/SOCOM-Seals-Fireteam-Bravo-Sony-PSP/dp/B00005A4X6/ref=sr_1_4?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1288877226&sr=1-4], and God of War [http://www.amazon.com/God-War-Playstation-2/dp/B0002XL3BA/ref=sr_1_4?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1288877162&sr=1-4], has attacked MMOs, saying that they are nowhere close to keeping up with cutting edge games and have math where they should have action.

Writing on the Undead Labs website [http://undeadlabs.com/2010/11/zombies/the-way-you-make-me-feel/], the studio that he has recently joined, Foge said that he liked the idea of MMOs, but couldn't stand the actual games themselves. Foge thought that MMOs should be able to go toe-to-toe with the biggest triple-A games, and thinks that making action-orientated MMOs for consoles is how that's going to happen.

He described the game that Undead Labs was working on, a persistent, online, console action game where players banded together to fight zombies, and their success or failure was down to their own skill, rather than "numbers and spreadsheets behind the scenes." Players would be able to set themselves significant and important goals as well, like capturing a power plant to get the communications network in their community up and running.

The game that Foge describes sounds like it could be a lot of fun, albeit very ambitious for a new studio like Undead Labs. It sounds like he's underestimating the challenge of getting a large-scale, persistent world to run smoothly however, especially one with reflex-orientated, action gameplay. That's going to be a significant hurdle to overcome if his game is actually going to be playable, let alone successful.

Source: Massively [http://www.massively.com/2010/11/03/undead-labs-current-mmos-are-barely-even-games/]


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[The_root_of_all_evil]

And....here's another one...

"I THINK WOT I DO IS BETTER THAN WHAT YOU DO."

Seriously, break/recess is over soon.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

That game sounds badass... hell I'd definitely buy it!

I sort of agree I suppose, but is anyone really going to say that WoW doesn't go toe to toe with the biggest triple-A games?

Still I'd like more developers to back his idea of action oriented MMOs... hopefully with better results than APB.

 

[coldfrog]

Sure his idea's good, but "numbers and spreadsheets behind the scenes" is pretty much the definition of a D&D-based RPG, and bashing that is the equivalent of saying "I don't like RPGs, I like action games!"

Personal preference, that's all.

And for crying the hell out loud, ANOTHER zombie game? I think Black Ops covered the bases nicely by having zombie Nazis. Now can we be done with games prominently featuring either of those?

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think he's right in some senses, and I've spent a good bit of time playing MMOs, but I think he's also missing the point of most MMOs. Most MMOs are about being in a virtual world that you can approach in a variety of different ways, whether it be as a totally social experience a total "game" experience or something in between.. or something else entirely. This also means that MMOs by their very nature appeal to a much larger population of gamers than many other genres.

Would WoW be a "better" game if it was more focused and real time action oriented? Possibly, though it depends on what you think makes a better game.

Would it have 12+ million subscribers and be as successful as it is? Not a chance.

 

[DazZ.]

Latency is a "number behind the scenes".

It generally trumps player skill in determining the outcome of an action game.

Don't play on servers that are countries away then, if everyone is under 100ms it's not really a factor.

OT: I like math though, so games with Action Math!? sound fun.

 

[Rack]

I love the concept, mind you I'm biased because I thought of pretty much the same thing myself a few years back. Let's hope he can live up to such a lofty goal or at least pave the way for others to do so.

 

[Gxas]

nowhere close to keeping up with cutting edge games and have math where they should have action.

The Math is what makes those games fun to me. Theorycrafting is enjoyable for me. I love breeding Pokemon because of all the math involved to truly breed a great fighter.

 

[Stollos]

I like how people have opinions. I don't like how some people think that theirs is universally right.

This guy deserves nothing more than cool story bro.

EDIT: For his opinion. The article title was misleading. I like the guys ideas though. Seriously guys, please, no more sensationalist titles. It well-alters my opinion and perception of the article content, the fickle human being that I am.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Completely agree with him...

Though I also agree with people slamming him for thinking his opinion is the be-all-end-all

 

[WittyInfidel]

Wait, so he's basically proposing a Left 4 Dead MMO? While a L4D-style persistent world could be fun, I just don't see staying mainstream for long. Sure, it would be a nice change from the fantasy hack-n-slash, but you'd basically trading fireball for shotgun, imp for zombie, and axe for a...fire axe?

Well, I'll wait an see, but i sure won't be holding my breath.

 

[Dana22]

Richard Foge, who has played such diverse games as Football, Rugby, and Ice Hockey, has attacked Chess players, saying that they are nowhere close to keeping up with cutting edge games and have math where they should have action.

You see what I did right here ? You see how wrong you are Mr. Richard ?

 

[Korten12]

Richard Foge, who has played such diverse games as Football, Rugby, and Ice Hockey, has attacked Chess players, saying that they are nowhere close to keeping up with cutting edge games and have math where they should have action.

You see what I did right here ? You see how wrong you are Mr. Richard ?

I think the point he was trying to make thoguh was that too many games are based on Stats vs Stats to see who wins. In a real Fantasy world if someone was killed it wouldn't end like this:

"how did you beat me?"

"My sword has higher stats."

In reality it would be who was better, not stat-wise.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Lag...

That is the reason you have Math based combat.
it doesn't lag a computer and a laggy player can still play just as effectively as a non laggy player. you can easily play WoW with 200 ping... Try doing that on CoD or L4D or... hell Any Reflex based combat game.

as good as an idea as that is...
i'm imagining the few 16 player L4D servers i've played on and the massive lagfest that those where... and his game is aiming to do Just that only with a Lot more Players.

 

[tehroc]

I think he's right in some senses, and I've spent a good bit of time playing MMOs, but I think he's also missing the point of most MMOs. Most MMOs are about being in a virtual world that you can approach in a variety of different ways, whether it be as a totally social experience a total "game" experience or something in between.. or something else entirely. This also means that MMOs by their very nature appeal to a much larger population of gamers than many other genres.

Would WoW be a "better" game if it was more focused and real time action oriented? Possibly, though it depends on what you think makes a better game.

Would it have 12+ million subscribers and be as successful as it is? Not a chance.

WOW would be a better MMO if they would look at some other model besides 20+ year old DIKU mud.

 

[Deshin]

If anyone's played Dead Frontier they'll know the problem of lag in a game. But then again that IS a browser game, not a "proper" game.

I for one have been wanting a proper Zombie-apocalypse MMO that focuses on action on a console for YEARS, I'm going to pre-order this game the instant it's given a release date.

 

[Korten12]

Anyone forgetting about dedicated servers to componsate for Lag?

 

[Xodion]

The problem with this entire article is that he is basically saying people who are good at action games should be allowed to have more fun, at the expense of everyone who isn't.

I like action games, but I never play them for very long because I'm not very good at them, and I don't have nearly enough free time to practice very much. So I play other games that don't require skills I don't have; games that use skills I do have, like Civ and Victoria.

This guy needs to think about how other people want to have fun, not just himself...

 

[Aurgelmir]

Modern MMOs "Barely Even Games," Says Former Guild Wars Dev

So old "classic" MMOs are better? with their grind based leveling, and no goals what so ever?
I guess he is can remove Modern, and from that what I gather is that he dislikes that MMOs haven't evolved in a fashion he would like.

Sure I would love to see more innovation, but point is players expect the quality that goes with WoW, so to use dev time on innovation and running after WoW is a pickle.

Personally I think the Western version of Terra is a step in that direction, and I will try it... but it will probably suck