214: Artificial Thrills

[Nanaya Vash]

Loved the article and understood every word of it. Having played that title and others from the same company (and also more disturbing) I completely relate to what's written about the game. The fact is, unless for jackin' off, the game pretty much is boresville. Seriously, I never thought a sexual game could be this boring. The only thing that you could possibly find ANY fun in that is the customization of the girls and their clothes. And even that gets old, because of the limited options. Unless you want to learn to program the outfits, and modify them all as in some communities (hello Hongfire). Well, each one has a right to decide what to do with their time and I'm not criticising. At first it's cute and sexy, but ultimately it's a drag.

 

[pneuma08]

Wow, I think I need a disclaimer to my posts. NB that what I personally believe should be marked with the personal pronouns and everything else is hypothetical for the sake of argument.

The Sims is slightly different in a few respects, the first being due to perspective - it doesn't put the gamer into the game. This can be rectified by making a Sim of "yourself", but even that's a bit different in that they still remain some level autonomy; the Sim that "you're" virtually wooing can in fact reject "you". Both of these things create a significant disconnect between the character and the player. I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has ever played the Sims for sexual release.

Nevertheless, stripped of that the parallel of control still remains, and it is an interesting one at that. It certainly helps put things in perspective.

I also think you're selling entertainment short as a medium. I would love to see a game that invited the players down a path of vigilantism, slowly drawing them into more darker decisions in the name of justice, before the dramatic twist and the full extent of their path is revealed. (I should mention that DeathWyrmNexus's challenge is not an effective measure. Video gaming as we know it has only existed for around 20 years, and is only now being used to its fullest extent as a medium.) But really, what is there a novel can do that a video game cannot (besides establish pacing, I suppose)?

Secondly, you guys are still painting in broad strokes. It's not that "violence is good" and "sex is bad" and that "violence is okay" -> "sex is okay", which would be a logical paradox; it's all about context. In Half-Life you gun down people mainly because you have no other choice; when running is an option it's many times preferable. And just because it's an option to gun down anyone you don't like (which it isn't in Half-Life - the game expressly forbids shooting friendlies) doesn't mean that it's both acceptable and encouraged. Furthermore just because games are able to provide positive benefit to society, that doesn't mean that all games must, nor does it mean that we should destroy or eliminate it if it has no positive value, or things of questionable value.

Finally, AG3 gets lumped into general porn once again. It is kind of a sticky situation because many people DO object to general sexual situations being depicted, so drawing a line adds more ire to both sides of -that- argument. But could it be that some forms of porn are acceptable and some are not? Could it be that references to sexual acts (like the GTA IV girlfriend sidequests) are acceptable but depictions are not? Could it be that AG3's form of creation/subjection in regards to sexual release is objectionable while most porn's narrow focus on the act of copulation is not?

Hank: You say that, "AG3 and other games of that genre are basically just sex simulators" but is that really the case? There seems to be disagreement regarding that point, because it is not just about sex, it's about custom-made women and the player's control over them (with regard to sex).

(Footnote: How does "GTA IV has an extensive story with many themes and a lot to say" defend GTA IV's violent content, especially how it allows "hiring prostitutes and then killing them to get your money back"? You lost me there.)

 

[Grand Peep]

So What you have issue with isn't the sex but the fact that your building a person to have sex with? Would you have the same problem if a shooter let you build your victims in a similar fashion?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

So What you have issue with isn't the sex but the fact that your building a person to have sex with? Would you have the same problem if a shooter let you build your victims in a similar fashion?

He is talking to hear himself talk now. Games have already allowed this type of control for quite a while. As for your example, that has already been done too. In college, I knew a number of chaps who possessed various wrestling games and the highlight was the customization. I saw a lot of people I knew in the world getting their ass beat on a regular basis in various embarrassing outfits.

Though while there was a lot of self petting in the post above yours, I do want to laugh at this line.

"Could it be that AG3's form of creation/subjection in regards to sexual release is objectionable while most porn's narrow focus on the act of copulation is not?"

You would be surprised how much variety and focus there is to porn beyond simple copulation. You're speaking against people actually having control in their game. Hate to break it to you but game mods and control of mechanics is not and has not been new for a while. People have been fiddling with control aspects of video games for a long time. All AG3 does is put a kit for the user to twink with usermade content. You're acting like there is a wildfire when there isn't even a lit match.

 

[Hank J.]

@pneuma08: Sorry, but you're talking BS right now. Of course the player himself is present in The Sims, he's the almost omnipotent being who can control (if the player wishes that) almost every action of the currently controlled sim. And no, the controlled sim can't reject your current orders. And when it comes down to interacting with another sim (i.e. not controlled by the player) you also have to follow a certain "code" to improve your relationship with that other sim (hug -> tell a joke -> hold hands -> kiss -> ... -> go to bed and have sex etc.). The character the player controls in AG3 isn't the player itself, it's just a random anonymous guy who does whatever the player "tells" him to do, like Gordon Freeman for example. It's not like you're thinking "Whoah, now I can have sex with the girls I've created!" it's more like watching them having sex with that random dude. I don't know why you think AG3 is entirely different and maybe even "dangerous" in some way just because you jack off to it.

Running away in Half-Life, are you serious? It's the whole point of the game to kill enemies, that's why it's called a First Person Shooter. Most of the time the player is running around and shooting stuff. No one can tell me that they have the whole background/story in mind when they enjoy a nasty firefight with some Combines or poking zombies with the crowbar.

And no, the player doesn't control the girls, he controls the random dude. The girls can even reject your approach on them and, unlike how it is in The Sims, you have no option to force her to do what you want. So yes, AG3 is a very shallow date sim and a sex simulator. No sane person would take the situations and actions shown in games like AG3 for real, as no sane person jumps out of a window because he played Call of Duty (where you barely survive a fall from a window located in the 2nd floor and regenerate your health afterwards in a matter of seconds).

To sum it up, your main argument why to treat games like AG3 different like, say GTA or HL is because you jack off to it, called "out-of-game" actions by you. The problem is, EVERY game does that. You may not jack off while playing HL² (at least I hope so) but every frame your eye catches has an impact on your CNS. As a result you may get excited, scared or horny - based on your personal preferences. I would call more adrenaline in your blood and a higher blood pressure indeed "out-of-game".

 

[Sick Sad World]

pneuma08 this seems to be your problem "it's about custom-made women and the player's control over them (with regard to sex)" it sounds like you are talking about a sexual version of a god complex which is why the sims comparison started. And of course that is not what AG3 is cos its not about control the idea is to interact with the npcs and get into a relationship with them that ultimately leads to sex, there is no sadism and no manupulation. At most its persuasion not control.

AG3 is the same as any other eroge except that it gives the ability to create the npcs you wanna try to have a relationship with.

The issue that people are having (or atleast the article) is that the relationships are simplified, the female characters are puzzles to be solved and supposedly that the characters are not strong, submissive and are passive so this reflects badly when compared to what it is really like in real life. The article criticises this and passes judgment on this and says that the audience think that women (real life women) are puzzles to be solved and relationships are as simple as depicted in game and that the game isnt helping this mentality. However the judgment and criticism falls apart because there are reasons that justify the use passive characters, simplified relationships and the feeling that its a puzzle to be solved. The author of the article either chooses to overlook the reasons or didnt even think of the them at all and wrote an article without doing his homework.

Issue 1: Simplified Relationships

Its yes' - no's, 1s and 0s, its all numbers and calculations; because its COMPUTERISED. How else would you represent affinity on a computer without calculations OR numbers. You cant make it as complicated as real life not only is it borderline impossible but it gets in the way of the main goal... SEX.

Issue 2: Characters attitudes and personalities seem passive, shy, submissive, needy and dependent and so on.

Its a japanese game, cliche personalities like that are attractive, you see it all over the japanese media. However there is always room for the contrast. Ive played the odd visual novel and eroge game and in every one of those games there has been a character with a stronger attitude and a wall to break through. AG3 has the personalities that cover the strong mature to the young passive and shy. There is even a personality that i would call "*****" and others would call "mean". Did the article mention that? no. So where is the criticism now?

Issue 3: Its a puzzle, watering down relationships and women to a puzzle.

How else would it be? when you put anything down on paper that has to do with choice it becomes a puzzle. Also, are real life relationships not complicated and confusing? to the point where you are "puzzled". I hate to let the secret out but Women ARE puzzles, MEN are puzzles hell PEOPLE ARE PUZZLES; this is just a negative way to put it the more positive way is women are complicated are men are complicated, PEOPLE are complicated no matter in what light you put it its true, we puzzle the fuck out of each other.

The aim of these games is to make jerking off and sexual feelings more than lust, to give you an emotional attachment to what you are jerking off to, its a far reach from the real thing(and players know so) but it is more than jerking off at glossy hollywood porn where its all dry and excessive moaning and where REAL LIFE WOMEN are really dominated and treated like fuck bags/objects.


This article gave me the rhoids, the rhoids indeed. The same ignorant point of view and judgment is being used by those who claim that video games are bad. Its all stinks of hypocrisy, "pot calling the kettle black", a kid pointing out a kid that eats boogers and then is reminded to shut the fuck up cos he eats his ear wax. Acting condescending and superior; when you fucking suck just as much as the other guy but just in a different way.


DISCLAIMER: I made a porn comparison, it wasnt to say that they are or are not the same, it is an attempt to show that it is ridiculous to criticise and judge eroge when the multi-billion porn industry that is all over the place, that people have grown to accept and always enjoyed and that is becoming more and more degrading is WAY WAY worse than a game that atleast explores relationships and an emotional attachment to the "person" you are jerking off to. And the hypocrisy is even stronger when the games that are also everywhere and people have played and probably enjoyed are worse than a game that stereotypes female personalities and makes you cum. But now i'm just repeating my self and the disclaimer is turning into a rant.

 

[Zorpheus]

I love how people are seeking mysteries and depth in a PORN GAME.

The purpose of the game is thus:
1) You create something that looks visually appealing to you.
2) You jump through some arbitrary hoops to simulate some semblance of a 'game' including a girl with a basic persona and flimsy inhibitions so it doesn't feel like you're having sex with a cardboard cutout.
3) You have sex with the visually appealing girl and, while you do so in game, stimulate yourself in real life because of, well, the visual appeal.
4) You finish and then put the game away until the next time you're horny, starting at Step 3, or 2 again if you want something or someone different.

Depth? Emotional attachment? Gameplay? A horny male seeks not these things. To look for them in a 'game' like this, I'd sooner call you the looney one. This entire 'game' is really no different than free porn samples on the Internet or magazines under your bed except for a bit of extra input on what you spank to. And if you say this 'game' is bad, you might as well say all pornography in general is bad. Either way, it is best to stop pretending this is a mass market high-gameplay game which should compare to gameplay-centric games like GTA and has 'deep disturbing meanings about human behavior'. Please leave your psychology books closed. You're all thinking way too much.

 

[DanDeFool]

I, for one, actually do play the game in question, and I have three comments.

1: HA HA! Nice job hitting the 'randomize' button! That's a good way to pump some nightmare fuel all over your screen.

2: I think you're probably overthinking things a little when you connect a game like AG3 to pick-up artists and people who think there's a 'code' for getting women to be attracted to you and all that rubbish. I'm sure there are some people out there who ascribe actual personalities to the girls in their artificial harems, but for the rest of us it's much less about simulating relationships and companionship and much more about having customizable porn.

To put this in a bit more familiar perspective for most gamers, have you ever played Quake 2 (or a similar game) and found yourself thinking, 'Gee, this is a fun game, but I wish I could be playing as Optimus Prime/Snake Eyes/Neo/Daffy Duck/etc. instead of John Doe McSpaceMarine.' I'm not the only person who thinks this way, because, in its heyday, there was a largish community dedicated to producing alternative character models for use on Quake 2 multiplayer servers, and all the characters listed above where included.

Going back to porn, I'm sure you've all been in a situation where you've been watching some hot hardcore action and thinking, 'Gee, this is nice, but I sure wish I could alter the female lead's facial features and body structure so that she wasn't UGLY AS FUCKING SIN.'

QED, I think.

Granted, for AG3 to be able to do this for you, you have to be into the whole 'anime/game girls are hot' thing to begin with; too bad Illusion is really the only company to put some production value into this business. Anyway, the problems with the creepiness of girl creation/the town/the hugging all go away (mostly-Even I get a little creeped out by this game at times) if you stop thinking about AG3 as a relationship simulator and see it for what it is. For lack of better terminology, it's a virtual action figure factory and a nice big playset to mess around in. Not exactly Ninja Turtles with Sewer and Technodrome, but it's the same general idea.

And yes, there are most certainly aspects of 'relationship' simulation in AG3. Quake 2 also had a storyline about alien invaders and whatnot. Neither game is interesting for the elements needed to provide the context. You play them for the action and that's really all that counts in the long run. If you think that such a scenario can even come close to replacing real human interaction (I certainly don't) then you need to go watch ZP's review of The Sims 3 and get some perspective.

3. Not all dating advice-providers on the internet espouse the theory that all you need to know to be successful with women is a specific course of actions. Only most of them. A few; like the Double Your Dating series for instance, emphasize personal improvement, self-confidence, and understanding the intricacies of sub-lingual communication as being much more important than any techniques when it comes to being good with women. The point is that not everyone sees women as a puzzle to be solved, but more as a skill or set of skills to be learned; understanding the context and learning how to work within a variety of situations are the keys to success, just like any other discipline.

P.S.: I've come to terms with the fact that I'm a lonely, socially awkward weirdo who plays dirty Japanese games. Feel free to call me on it, but short of pointing me at a good therapist I don't think it's going to do much good.

 

[Phatmoney]

I've play this game and am part of the hongfire community of mod makers for AG3. I'd like to say that this is a pretty accurate review.

As an AG3 Modder, I once made the entire cast from Tenchi Muyo (an Animu series). I felt kinda happy I could pull this off but yeah it was a little creepy to think about all the people fapping to my creations.... I often wonder if this is how modern artists feel in their little communities of like minded people.... *shudders*

I'd like to point out that Japanese companies such as Illusion do more to give women a "personality" than any of it's American counterparts such as "3D sex villa". Americans tend not to care about a story or actors when it comes to porno. Games like 3D sex villa only ask which girl you want, and puts you in a room with her with a list of possible "poses" and items.
Personally, I like to think of this game as more of an art program since the game play is limited and the AI system is more of a joke... but hey at least Illusion is trying....sort of

 

[JediMooCow]

Mr. Parrish, that article was both hilarious and informative. Thank you very much.

 

[knight of zendikar]

This article did somthing that probably has never been done. It tastefully reviewed hentai.

in all seriousness i didnt think it could be done.

 

[LiteraryLitany]

For those saying there's nothing wrong with the game, consider: Would you show it to a real-life girl proudly? If there's nothing to be ashamed of in the way women are portrayed why not display it on the shelf like any other kinds of fantasies fulfilled in other games?

Because deep down you know there's something inherently wrong with propagating the viewpoint and world the game puts forth. That's it's not healthy, and unlike some slivers of unhealthy things in other games has nothing else in it to make up for it.

 

[Phatmoney]

For those saying there's nothing wrong with the game, consider: Would you show it to a real-life girl proudly? If there's nothing to be ashamed of in the way women are portrayed why not display it on the shelf like any other kinds of fantasies fulfilled in other games?

Because deep down you know there's something inherently wrong with propagating the viewpoint and world the game puts forth. That's it's not healthy, and unlike some slivers of unhealthy things in other games has nothing else in it to make up for it.

Yeah but you wouldn't show a lot of people your porn collection "proudly", would you? Would you say that porn is "wrong"?

Actually I've seen a demo where a group of women where playing with the body sliders in AG3's Make. Making an Artificial Girl is fun for the type of people who enjoy tweaking video game avatars. People have fun with the Sims after all, and mostly when they're recreating people they know in real-life or pop culture.

 

[Continuity]

Well I must say I laughed my ass off reading that, though is does sound rather sinister in many respects... I'm not sure that sexual deviants need any encouragement.
However its just a game and I guess if we accept games like GTA then we're bound to accept something like this... aren't we?

 

[Nurb]

......

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I don't understand the point of the article; is it not well established by now that video games are made for their target audience (by definition) and thus do whatever they can to entertain that market?

Maybe write your next article about how first-person shooters create enemies that are mortal.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Would you show it to a real-life girl proudly? If there's nothing to be ashamed of in the way women are portrayed why not display it on the shelf like any other kinds of fantasies fulfilled in other games?

I don't play these games (I've tried one in the past and found it painfully pointless) but if I did, consider this: would you pick your nose in front of your girlfriend or boyfriend? Proudly display your collection of porn? Describe the arousal you receive upon seeing your partner's sister? Share to the family the story of that time you wet your pants and secretly changed? Regale your loved ones with the intimate details of your fetishes or sex life?

Anyway, I believe my point was made somewhere in there, lol.