Skyrim Designer Defends Scrapping Class Choice

Greg Tito

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Sep 29, 2005
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Skyrim Designer Defends Scrapping Class Choice



RRPGs are somewhat defined by the classes available to the player but lead designer Todd Howard explains why that choice will be much more organic in Skyrim..

The concept of class has always been a nebulous thing in Elder Scrolls games. With a skill based system of leveling (you gain power by performing the specified action), it was sometimes difficult to play if you were saddled with leveling skills that weren't fun for you just because they were part of your chosen class. In Oblivion, Bethesda attempted to alleviate that by letting you play the game for a while before forcing you to decide what your "class" was. An NPC basically said, "Hey, you seem to be using these skills in battle and to solve problems, why don't you become wizard/fighter/assassin etc?" With next the Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim due out 11.11.11, Todd Howard discussed why he decided to do away with that immersion-breaking question.

"What we found in Oblivion - you start the game, you pick your race, and you play for a while," Howard said. "One of the characters asks you 'Okay, what kind of class do you want to be? Here's my recommendation based on how you've been playing.' And sort of our thought process [with Skyrim] was, what if that guy never asked that?"

In other words, rather than forcing an artificial-feeling decision, Skyrim will form your "class" from the skills that you use the most. The change that Howard is making will basically extend the opening in Oblivion, because to him it felt good to just play with the mechanics of the game instead making that decision.

"I was perfectly happy right before then, ya know, I was just playing the game and skills were going up, so we just got rid of that," Howard said. "You just play, and your skills go up as you play and the higher your skill, the more it affects your leveling. So it's a really, really nice elegant system that kind of self-balances itself."

Hopefully, Howard's solution will solve the problem of picking a class that you just didn't want to play. "What we found in Oblivion is people would play, and even though they played for a half hour and then they picked their class, it's still not enough time to really understand all the skills and how they work. So people would play, and the general pattern would be they'd play for three hours and then say 'Oh, I picked the wrong skills, I'm going to start over.'"

As a game designer, Howard asked his team, "'Is there a way we can solve that? Is there a better way of doing it?' And we think [the solution outlined above] is it."

While it will feel weird playing a roleplaying game without picking a preconceived archetype before even starting to play, I think that Howard is moving in the same direction that a lot of tabletop roleplaying games are these days. Allowing players to form roles based on actually playing the game is exciting for a tabletop geek like myself.

Source: Gamerant [http://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-character-classes-removed-dyce-65130/]

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Stammer

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Apr 16, 2008
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I personally agree with the choice. It's more realistic to not be strapped-down by choices made early on.

In the just-for-fun PnP RPG I've designed from scratch, the game doesn't have classes either. Instead, the players just learn new abilities from various schools or guilds, and any combination of abilities can be worked to create a unique but competent character. Whether you're a Jack of All Trades or more of a focussed role, I'm trying to design the game to be balanced for any choices.

That isn't to say I think every game should be that way, but I do think with such an open world as what The Elder Scrolls series has proven to be, having an open-ended class system is the best possible route.
 

Droppa Deuce

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Dec 23, 2010
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Fine with me I guess.

The classes were cool in Morrowind, as they gave you a few bonus spells and attribute boosts etc. But I guess if you want to be a Thief, you'll just max out your stealth skills, if you want to be a Warrior you'll go for endurance and strength. really won't affect the gameplay much.

I'm looking forward to this year's goodies!

Cap'n America movie, Arkham City and Skyrim!!

:D


DROP A DEUCE!
 

Shycte

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Mar 10, 2009
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Didn't the original Fable also give you a class based on how you played it? Fucking Spellwarrior.

Anyway sounds good though. It makes for better role playing, in my head atlest.
 

Jumwa

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Jun 21, 2010
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Works much better this way.

I always created my own custom class in the Elder Scrolls games rather than pick their pre-made ones, but for a newcomer that's not really a viable option, is it? So all around, I feel this takes nothing away from a serious ES fan, and only adds to a more natural progression.
 

Skuffyshootster

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Jan 13, 2009
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So now it's more like an open world fantasy FPS with role playing elements.

I'm sure I'll still enjoy it, I guess...
 

scarab7

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Jun 20, 2009
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Don't think they need to defend their change is character creation, glad they're trying something new. Is see this as them trying to make their next game better.
 

Diligent

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Sounds like a good way to go. The pattern of starting a new character because you picked the "wrong" class sounds very familiar to me.
Now if they do away with a monster leveling system that punishes you the player for leveling up too much, it will be the perfect game in my eyes.
 

bushwhacker2k

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Jan 27, 2009
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Greg Tito said:
In other words, rather than forcing an artificial-feeling decision, Skyrim will form your "class" from the skills that you use the most.
Oo, that sounds cool, besides Elder Scrolls games are pretty open, why not just let us do what we want?
 

Little Duck

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Oct 22, 2009
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Let the game live before you shoot it down.

Or mod the crap out of if you need it that much.

Still back to topic I think this could be interesting. Certainly sounds more fun. Personally I've always felt this game needed some lock on targeting or something. Attack by cross-hairs with a sword is downright inaccurate at times, not to mention frustrating. Also some other way of casting magic but I'm getting off topic again.

Probably good idea.
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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It's not much of a change, though I'm sure some will decry this is simplification and the scrapping of a good system. But classes were just superficial in Oblivion. You made a custom class if you were smart, and no one referred to you as as warrior, mage, or rogue (an exception to any sort of class being mentioned in-game: "You wear the shadows well, fellow thief"). So in this regard, classes were already non-existant. There were no class-specific talents (like in Dragon Age). All that matters is where you allocate your points. And by the end of the game, you're a warrior, rogue, and mage no matter what.
 

blarghblarghhhhh

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Mar 16, 2010
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I love this idea. it was a pain in the ass to level up "properly" in oblivion, ao much so that I didnt bother doing it and my character suffered. Also I like the idea of being able to switch up your play style whenever you want.
 

Ralen-Sharr

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Feb 12, 2010
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I made my own anyway, so this really doesn't change anything for me. I think it might be interesting to see what class the game calls you after you've played a while.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Greg Tito said:
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Things like this (which were also very well done by the Fable series) simply amount to developers finally designing the class system in the way a human being thinks, instead of in reverse (the way a developer thinks):

1. Decide what you want to do.
2. Your class is the one that does that.

This is superior to the current status quo, which is:

1. Decide what you want to do.
2. Look through as many different sources on class information as you can to learn them.
3. Choose the class that most closely represents the things you wanted to do.

There's always been a similar phenomenon in tabletop games as well, if you think about it. Players think about the things they want the character to do, and then they have to reverse engineer the game mechanics to figure out what attributes and stats they'll need to be able to do those things. In the games I design, I just go ahead and turn the process around--choose the things you want your character to do, and then the attributes and stats are derived from that.

We're just talking about "mental ergonomics," so to speak.
 

similar.squirrel

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Mar 28, 2009
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I remember a Dungeon Siege game doing something like this, back in the day. Good idea, anyway. I'm extremely prone to scapping characters in RPGs, unless the plot is stellar enough to keep you sucked in [like Mass Effect, for example].
 

Frotality

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Oct 25, 2010
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for elder scrolls, im fine with this; i always went with a custom class anyway, so other than a cool custom class name not much will really change for me. cant shake the feeling its gonna end up like fable though, where in the end you always end up supreme hulk-ninja-mage master of everything....hopefully leveling will be similar to oblivion, where it is nigh impossible to reach max level by just playing through quests.