Skyrim Designer Defends Scrapping Class Choice

[Wolfpocalypse]

hummmm but you could make your own class in oblivion, was i the only one who did that or something? bah never mind, im sure its gonna rock anyway, maybe bring back some of the stuff from morrowwind? like levitating and being able to twack fools with your staff! And mercantile mud crabs!

 

[Stryc9]

I LOVE this idea, I think other RPG makers should look into this and think about incorporating it into their games. Access to any skill or ability any time you level is brilliant and hasn't been used in very many games.

Dungeon Siege II did it but it still kind of herds you into specializing in one particular skillset, be it magic, ranged or melee in order to be effective and not die every 20 seconds.

Titan Quest kind of did this by having you pick one skill tree at level 4 and then gave you the choice to pick another at level 8. It sill locked you into using skills from only those two skill trees though.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

so... basically this will be a first-person Runescape (in that you won't have to pick a class, but just build one as you go)? awesome.

 

[Undermind_Mike]

The term "defends" implies someone disagrees... a shame if so, frankly I think all classes should be scrapped in single character games.

It seems to me (there may be people who know better) that the whole concept of classes descends from Dungeons and Dragons, where tellingly, the idea of attempting to play with a single character, and thus single class, is laughable.

It works in D&D where you have to play a specific part and work together. It works OK in Mass Effect where you have a party (but frankly it's just flavouring, not mandatory, to balance your party. That's OK though since that's a deliberate decision.)

Offer players the option to pre-specialise their character at creation in case they want to role-play a history; but don't force players of a very long game to lock their character out of gameplay options based on a decision made 5 minutes in.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I can't see why people would disagree with this. It doesn't remove class play. just class selection. You can still be what you want... and as time progresses in the game you will specialise more and more until you become something you defined yourself.

It's a great idea that fits with elder scrolls "level by doing" mantra that has existed since Daggerfall (if not earlier, I wouldn't know any earlier).

 

[Lucifer dern]

It might get rid of a little depth, and result in alot of grinding, but I say it could work... It would have to be a slightly forgiving system, If you want me to create my own class you better let me go a bit more creative then the standered and not punish me for it...If I want to train stealth and magic, I want them to work.
I don't want to play as a dragonborn still though...sorry guys...

 

[trooper6]

I stopped DM'ing D&D and transitioned over to GM'ing GURPS in 1988 for precisely this reason. D&D is level/class-based limiting a player to only specific archetypes, whereas GURPS was point/skill-based allowing you to create any sort of character you could imagine.

To those who say Skyrim will no longer be an RPG. There are lots of skill based RPGs, like my good-ole GURPS.
To those who say Skyrim will be less deep. For my money, crafting an individual character based on skill usage is more deep than shoehorning a character in to a class.

So I say, thumbs up. Now, if they can bring the excellence in storytelling and investment in the land from Morrowind (which I thought was a bit lacking in Oblivion)--then we will be good to go.

 

[Chamale]

I don't mind. I never used preset classes in Oblivion anyway, and rarely felt that I wanted exactly 7 out of 21 skills to specialize in.

 

[Optimystic]

I played through Oblivion 4 times i do not remember a person asking me about what kind of class i would be using?

Right after Patrick Stewart dies (not a spoiler, even Yahtzee mentioned it), that one guard standing over his body asks you the question. Whereupon I do what I do in every TES game - make up my own class because the "packages" Bethesda put together are crap. (Seriously, Conjuration as a major skill is just asking to get your mage's ass kicked.)

So I'm glad they're getting rid of this - it always irritated me when I cast spells through the entire intro, used sneak ONCE (when the damn game told me to, no less!), walked up to that NPC and he said "You must be a talented Bard!" with that shit-eating grin on his face. Do you see a lute anywhere, Mr. Guard? Do you?

...What were we talking about

 

[brodie21]

i totally agree, i never used any of the pre-set classes in oblivion, i always made my own depending on how i wanted to play.

 

[Levi93]

Great idea, too many times I've had to restart oblivion after noticing I forgot a skill for the character build I was after.

 

[Burningsok]

I stopped DM'ing D&D and transitioned over to GM'ing GURPS in 1988 for precisely this reason. D&D is level/class-based limiting a player to only specific archetypes, whereas GURPS was point/skill-based allowing you to create any sort of character you could imagine.

To those who say Skyrim will no longer be an RPG. There are lots of skill based RPGs, like my good-ole GURPS.
To those who say Skyrim will be less deep. For my money, crafting an individual character based on skill usage is more deep than shoehorning a character in to a class.

So I say, thumbs up. Now, if they can bring the excellence in storytelling and investment in the land from Morrowind (which I thought was a bit lacking in Oblivion)--then we will be good to go.

exactly, I find it funny how some people think The Elder Scrolls is losing its RPG identity. It's called a Role Playing Game for a reason. You create your character the way you want it. Having a class from the beginning already defines your character and puts limits on what you can become. It's more of a RPG to have a character start off completely by scratch and build him/her up as you go. Besides, you could give your character a custom class in Oblivion and Morrowind, and usually that custom class was something you were deciding to stick with from the beginning.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I think people who are concerned about the lack of RPG elements because of anything we might "lose" from a defined character class system are forgetting how much of the RP element was player added in games like Oblivion.

Face it, the designers left us room for it - but we put it in there. I played that game with my fiance and he didn't bother with any of the RP elements that I do (buying more than one house and actually putting things in it, sleeping occasionally, talking to more than the Quest marked NPC locals, sticking to the ethics of the group I was currently with or a strong character ethic, etc. etc. etc.) Open world means open world, freedom is what you DO with it.

Are we lamenting the loss of our genre or whining because we're going to have to tax our imaginations a little bit while also playing a video game? Imagination and entertainment are not mutually exclusive commodities that we have to have held separately - and anything that attempts to bring a balanced fusion to them is a good thing.

 

[Krantos]

This is actually a really good choice since it will remove those restrictions that made playing a hybrid so tough.

E.g. A sword-wielding spellcaster that uses magic for ranged and healing: Do you pick Combat or Magic for your specialization? At what point is one set of skills going to outstrip the other so you don't use the lower ones? That's the trouble I always had will Oblivion (kind of with Morrowind).

I think this is one of the best choices they've made for the game.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Pfft. So they are effectively changing nothing. All the smart players ditched the pre-defined classes and just went with what they wanted to use anyway.

Actually, that only happened in Morrowind. In Oblivion, the smart thing to do was to fill all of your Major skill slots with crap you NEVER planned to use, that way you wouldn't level up as fast (there was no point to leveling up since everything was scaled to your level anyway; only the enemies would outgrow your rate of power after a time).

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

It boggles my mind when I try to think of why they insist on calling this game an RPG, because it very clearly is not. It might have RPG elements, but it is looking more like a copy of the game mechanics from Mass Effect 2. While not necessarily a bad thing, it just smacks of trying to dumb down the genre for the tards. Anyone that calls this system deep is fooling themselves.

I suppose the good ole' quest marker that holds your hand like a fucking two year old will be making a comeback also?

Just because they're changing some features doesn't make it any less of an RPG. It's still you starting off with a character in which as you progress you put points into attributes like Strength, Dexterity,etc. You still learn skills. You still learn proficencies for certain things. It still going to be very much an RPG. It's becoming much more like tabletop RPGs these days. A lot of tabletop systems now are just a rule system for how to play the game and now have stopped giving out rules for worlds and stopped character restricting classes. Comparing this system to Mass Effect 2, especially with knowing all the details of Skyrim, is one hell of a stretch.

 

[JayDub147]

Now, if they'd just hire Oscuro to do the leveling for them, I'd preorder this right now.

(Okay, I lied. If they guarantee that they won't be assholes with the DRM, then I'd preorder)

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Didn't the original Fable also give you a class based on how you played it? Fucking Spellwarrior.

Anyway sounds good though. It makes for better role playing, in my head atlest.

well, shit, somebody else noticed this before i could post.
Now I can't feel special.

Now, I like this. It makes sense. In morrowind, you spent your life in prison, and yet come out knowing your name, zodiac, favorite food, and claim to have a profession, despite being too unskilled to make a living (or indeed, enough for bus fare) without robbing Seyda Neen blind. On the other hand, Oblivion had a great way to introduce the classes. He didn't say you SHOULD be, he asked ARE you. It made sense.

Anyway, I am viewing Skyrim with more skepticism than a fable release. Molyneux may fail to deliver on any of his good promises and only half-succeed his intelligent ones, but we don't EXPECT Bethesda to promise Fable and give us Fable 3, even though the promise of Oblivion and the reality are arguably more incongruous than any of the fables.

I'm going to buy this, but until I see solid evidence that its worth my time, I'll wait for the GOTY to go on sale at 20 bucks before i do

 

[ChupathingyX]

I never used preset classes in Elder Scrolls games anyway, I always made my own custom class. So I'm curious how this will play out.