TimeShift Dev Says $60 Price Tag is Holding Games Back

Scott Bullock

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Nov 11, 2010
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TimeShift Dev Says $60 Price Tag is Holding Games Back

Saber Interactive's CEO has defended pre-owned game sales, saying current prices force consumers to get what value they can out of their entertainment.

In a piece he wrote for CVG, Matt Karch, CEO of Saber Interactive, wrote, "People in our industry are in a panic about used games, but honestly, can you blame people for playing a game and then trying to get some value back out of it? The only way for many gamers to currently play multiple AAA games is to shell out quite a bit of money and that definitely limits our consumer base."

This is due, he says, to high retail prices on games that aren't innovating. $60 is a good chunk of change to spend on a game, and most of the time only the hardcore gamers are willing to shell out that much dough on a single purchase. Developers who spend many millions of dollars on a game need to make back that money, and if the hardcore gamer is the only one in the market for their game, then they are going to stick with the tried and true staples of whatever genre they are working in. "This means that less risks are taken and games end up being much more "cookie cutter" and innovation is stifled," he wrote.

According to Karch, the answer is smaller, cheaper games that would pose less of a financial risk to developers if they fail, allowing for more experimentation and a lighter impact on the consumer's wallet. The lower price could also bring more people into gaming. "If you want to reach an audience that is not accustomed to spending or can't spend that kind of money," he said, "then you need to give them an alternative. Smaller, high quality digital downloads are a great way to do that."

But many gamers would disagree that shorter, cheaper games are the future. Saber Interactive's latest game, a movie tie-in for Battle L.A. has been heavily criticized for its extremely short campaign, with some people saying they finished the game in under an hour.

Responding to this, Karch wrote that the game, as a movie tie-in, was aimed at a far more casual audience than your usual hardcore FPS-player, but that that is exactly who ended up playing the game. What was intended to be a 2 to 3 hour life-or-death fight against alien invaders turned into a 45 minute jog across L.A. spitting lead at generic alien #552. That's short, even for a $10 arcade download.

Even with the mixed reviews, Karch believes that short and sweet is the way to go with future games: "It will be great to see games that people really haven't experienced before at all, and I think smaller priced titles where the upfront risk is smaller will allow for that."

Source: CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/295610/features/games-are-too-expensive-so-how-can-we-blame-people-for-buying-pre-owned/]

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Eri

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Feb 21, 2009
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While I somewhat agree, it is also somewhat gamers own fault as well. Constantly buying shovelware, or plain not good games, sends a message that we will buy shit, despite the price. If people only bought games for 60$ that they were POSITIVE they would like, it wouldn't be so bad.

That's what I do, and I can safely say I've never bought a game I didn't like, because I research it beforehand.
 

forsinain42

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Oct 14, 2009
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Dvd. $15 - 2 hours entertainment.
Game. $60 - 10 + hours entertainment.

What's the problem?

And if you worry that people don't want to shell out on something they may not like then make a DEMO!
 

katsumoto03

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Feb 24, 2010
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While I agree, it's our own fault. They wouldn't charge so much if we didn't keep buying their products on opening day for up to twice the price of a regular game (depending on what "edition" you get).
 

Catalyst6

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Apr 21, 2010
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Yes, it would be wise for games to become cheaper, shorter, and better designed.

But really, saying games should be higher-quality for less money is kind of silly. Or rather, it's useless to say it because it's obvious, but hard to do.

I mean, it's not like you can take a developer and say "Okay, we need you do make a game for X$. (three months later) Okay, it's a pretty good game, but can you make it... better"?

Quality is a fickle beast that is hard to catch.
 

GonzoGamer

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Scott Bullock said:
This is due, he says, to high retail prices on games that aren't innovating. $60 is a good chunk of change to spend on a game, and most of the time only the hardcore gamers are willing to shell out that much dough on a single purchase. Developers who spend many millions of dollars on a game need to make back that money, and if the hardcore gamer is the only one in the market for their game, then they are going to stick with the tried and true staples of whatever genre they are working in. "This means that less risks are taken and games end up being much more "cookie cutter" and innovation is stifled," he wrote.
I agree with him. It seems really weird that most of the schemes Publishers have concocted to shore up their revenue seems to depend on the gullibility of gamers to pay whatever is asked for something that's hardly worth half the price.

I think the reason Publishers complain about used games Now is because they aren't impulse buys anymore, they cost about the same as a new copy and that displaces consumers' disposable income that would go to new games.
Sure, $60 is a lot to pay for a new game but $57.99 is an absurd price to pay for a used game.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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GonzoGamer said:
Scott Bullock said:
This is due, he says, to high retail prices on games that aren't innovating. $60 is a good chunk of change to spend on a game, and most of the time only the hardcore gamers are willing to shell out that much dough on a single purchase. Developers who spend many millions of dollars on a game need to make back that money, and if the hardcore gamer is the only one in the market for their game, then they are going to stick with the tried and true staples of whatever genre they are working in. "This means that less risks are taken and games end up being much more "cookie cutter" and innovation is stifled," he wrote.
I agree with him. It seems really weird that most of the schemes Publishers have concocted to shore up their revenue seems to depend on the gullibility of gamers to pay whatever is asked for something that's hardly worth half the price.

I think the reason Publishers complain about used games Now is because they aren't impulse buys anymore, they cost about the same as a new copy and that displaces consumers' disposable income that would go to new games.
Sure, $60 is a lot to pay for a new game but $57.99 is an absurd price to pay for a used game.
Plus, as Steam sales have proven time and time again, lower cost = lots of sales.
 

duchaked

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while I'm not one to pick on the underdogs but...

while what the devs are saying here aren't generally untrue or even bad ideas, in THEIR case it simply functions as a bad excuse I think
 

Cliff_m85

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Feb 6, 2009
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Yes, $60 is holding back gaming quite a bit, but I thought that was common knowledge. o_O
 

Astalano

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I will say it again, as I've said countless times before.

The fixed price situation needs to go.

What you do, is get certain extremely popular genres and jack up the price according to demand. So, say, Call of Duty or Halo will be 80-100 dollars because they generally have a nice inelastic demand (basically means idiots/casual gamers/sheep/not the person reading this comment will still buy them whatever the price, mostly due to the fact that these types of people only buy a few games a year and that price is a large part of their gaming income as opposed to most of us, where our demand is a ton more elastic because we buy a lot more games and anything spent on Call of Duty or Halo would be relatively small).

This encourages smaller devs to lower their prices to compete, since the more expensive games suck out money out of the market and they need to make their products attractive. So you get, maybe 30-45 for games from smaller developers and only medium-top tier developers compete with the 60 dollar game. New IPs will go for around 25-40, encouraging people to buy into the franchise or simply to buy a game they would otherwise not have bought.

Not only does this help all developers and balances out the market, it also helps fight against renting and piracy, taking up a bit of those markets previously thought uncounquerable.

Also, I'm pretty sure artificially keeping your price low if your demand allows you to go much higher is illegal.
 

TheMadJack

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Apr 6, 2010
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That's a double-edged sword.

I'm sorry, but I won't shell out 10$ for an hour-long mediocre piece of gaming entertainment. It would have to be a quality and fulfilling product. But then again, publishers would see that trend, tell developers to spew more and more "small" titles thus getting to the same problem we have, PLUS, we would now pay 100$ for an equivalent 20-hour long gaming experience.

How was that supposed to help anyone again?

That trend was started by EA. Let's crucify EA instead and those other publishers following in their footsteps, not the game companies themselves.
 

Wolfram23

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Mar 23, 2004
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Wait, wait, a competitive pricing market could help innovation? No way!

But yeah, most games aren't worth $60 new.

And please quit with the $ per hour of entertainment comparison. It might be a useful way to justify your expenses but it's not a valid pricing strategy for sellers. I mean look at a $20 DVD for 2 hours of fun. Then a $60 game with a 7 hour campaign. Then a $60 RPG with a 40 hour campaign. How do you justify both games being $60, if you're doing a $/hr comparison?

Items are sold based on cost to produce and estimated sales, with a profit margin thrown in. That's how basically all goods and services are sold (including consoles and PCs) and it makes the most sense. I don't see why games should be so different.
 

tehweave

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Apr 5, 2009
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Problem is, yes, every game on the market is 50-60 bucks brand new. Yes. This includes big titles, shovelware, and little titles. Another problem: This was the same 10 years ago. I remember shelling out 60 bucks for a BRAND NEW Majora's Mask game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but inflation has changed things since 2000-2001. SO. Since video games are probably 8 bajillion times more expensive (hyperbole) than they were before, and developers are still selling the brand-new ones at 60 bucks a pop, I'm guessing they're losing money. They've also found ways around this buy releasing a halfway complete game (Dragon Age 2) and forcing buyers to pay extra money for DLC. All of which will finish the halfway complete game (Dragon Age 2) and cause individual gamers to end up paying around 100 to 120 bucks for the final product. (Dragon Age 2) So... What do we do? Gamers won't pay 60 bucks for brand new games, but developers can't reduce prices because games are so expensive, and instead shove out a half-done game and make people pay for DLC.

...Life sucks?
 

AnAngryMoose

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Nov 12, 2009
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duchaked said:
while I'm not one to pick on the underdogs but...

while what the devs are saying here aren't generally untrue or even bad ideas, in THEIR case it simply functions as a bad excuse I think
I agree. Saber Interactive haven't had a good game since Metal Arms: Glitch in the System. Although, I do agree with this guy, completely.
 

Art Axiv

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Dec 25, 2008
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Funny thing is, he developed Timeshift which sold for more than 60$ where I live.
 

PettingZOOPONY

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Between Steam and Amazon I haven't payed full price for a game in years, people with access to these services or like ones need to shop around a bit instead of complaining about high prices.
 

AnAngryMoose

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Nov 12, 2009
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Astalano said:
I will say it again, as I've said countless times before.

The fixed price situation needs to go.

What you do, is get certain extremely popular genres and jack up the price according to demand. So, say, Call of Duty or Halo will be 80-100 dollars because they generally have a nice inelastic demand (basically means idiots will still buy them whatever the price, mostly due to the fact that these types of people only buy a few games a year and that price is a large part of their gaming income as opposed to most of us, where our demand is a ton more elastic because we buy a lot more games and anything spent on Call of Duty or Halo would be relatively small).

This encourages smaller devs to lower their prices to compete, since the more expensive games suck out money out of the market and they need to make their products attractive. So you get, maybe 30-45 for games from smaller developers and only medium-top tier developers compete with the 60 dollar game. New IPs will go for around 25-40, encouraging people to buy into the franchise or simply to buy a game they would otherwise not have bought.

Not only does this help all developers and balances out the market, it also helps fight against renting and piracy, taking up a bit of those markets previously thought uncounquerable.

Also, I'm pretty sure artificially keeping your price low if your demand allows you to go much higher is illegal.
And what about the non-idiots you enjoy both Call of Duty and Halo? Gross generalisation for the win, no? And what counts as a medium-tier Dev. Any Dev who doesn't producing a FPS that sells tens of millions of copies? That, is even more flawed and it would probably drive at least some of the "idiot market", as you say away from the games and since they're part of that "idiot" sub-group they won't be interested in the middle or lower-tier developers.
 

Uber Waddles

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May 13, 2010
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Anyone thats in college and has a part time job knows how hard it is to have your cake, and game with it too. If I can buy used, I will buy used. Simple as that.

As for the arguement that videogames HAVE to be expensive, hogwash.

Most games have a smaller budget than Hollywood movies, which are to make massive profits off of 8 and 15 dollar incriments. You show me a game that has the budget that Avatar had, and WASNT World of Warcraft, and Ill eat my own ass.

The gaming industry is NOT hurting, by any means of the imagination. Their profit margins are extremely high, despite the "woe is me" reporting they put out because their profits arent as godly as they wished them to be.

Games could EASILY sell for $40 a pop and STILL make money. Problem is most of them dont want to. They can sell you a game that took relatively fast to make, make you pay full price, and have it be generic. The problem is, games have very little scale in pricing. Most games are $60 for a few years, than drop down to $20 when the sequel comes out.

Greed. Which is why I applaud GameStop. Their greedy too, but atleast I can get cheaper games from them.
 

sb666

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Apr 5, 2010
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i would love it if games cost 60$ in Australia but they cost 100$ here