Xbox One UK TV Unwatchable, US Frame Rate May Be To Blame

[Karloff]

Xbox One UK TV Unwatchable, US Frame Rate May Be To Blame

50Hz is the standard in the UK, and all PAL and SECAM regions, but it's 60 in the US.

UK Xbox One owners hoping to use the console's TV features are having significant problems. The screen judders so badly that many users call it unwatchable, and it seems the reason for this is that the Xbox is set to a US standard of 60Hz, while UK is a PAL region. PAL and SECAM regions are set to 50Hz standard. Pushing a 50Hz signal through a 60Hz machine just isn't fun; frames start to drop, and the picture is significantly degraded.

This suggests that, of the 13 launch countries [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/126850-Xbox-One-Will-Launch-In-Just-13-Countries], Xbox TV functions may not work very well in Australia and New Zealand, among others. These may be less affected than the UK; Australia and New Zealand are switching from PAL standard to DVB-T, and most European nations have switched to DVB-T standard. At time of writing it's not confirmed whether, or how badly, those regions are affected by the problem.

According to CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/439924/uk-xbox-one-users-suffering-tv-integration-issues/], it's possible to fool the Xbox One into outputting video at 50 rather than 60, which solves the TV problem. However it causes a game problem, because many of the Xbox One's titles are set to 60Hz.

Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter has told Eurogamer [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk] that there's no easy solution. "The kind of frame-rate upscaling required to eliminate the judder at 60Hz would probably compromise image quality." While setting the machine to 50Hz during TV and switching it back to 60 for gaming was doable, "this wouldn't be quite as seamless an experience as Microsoft originally envisaged," says Leadbetter.

Microsoft has said that it is aware of the issue, but had no comment, or solutions, yet.

Source: Guardian [http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/xbox-one-juddering-plagues-uk-tv-watchers]


Permalink

 

[omega 616]

This has to be like that story about spiders getting inside a certain car and messing it up ... just one of those things that devs just don't even consider.

I guess it isn't totally wild and out there but with MS doing a 180 on loads of policies, mixed messages and a whole slew of problems, it was probably just over looked.

 

[Dr.Awkward]

This is a rookie mistake in console making if I've ever seen one. 50Hz has been the standard for years in the nations that remain to use PAL; in fact even certain NES games are notably better when compared at PAL and NTSC speeds because they're timed to the display clock. (And nowadays, given how NFS:Rivals is set up, that's also a rookie mistake...)

 

[fix-the-spade]

Pretty much every TV sold in Europe in the last decade has the capacity to output 60Hz, all you have to do is tell it that you want it to, my smart TV can go between 50, 60 and 120 automatically and does between TV, console and PC without so much as a stutter, my parent's much older non-smart TV can do 50/60 fine too. Yet apparently it's too much for the Xbone to be able to switch between output rates? Someone at Microsoft is staggeringly incompetent.

 

[Yuuki]

Wasn't Microsoft's primary/intended audience US customers anyway? Everything marketed about the console sure seemed to be aimed at Americans.
> Massive TV emphasis
> Massive Sports emphasis (NFL?)
> Always online (reverted)
> Highly specific localization upon release, living anywhere other than the tiny list of countries = XBone won't work there (reverted?)

It's a well-known fact that MS consoles sell very poorly outside US/West, with XBone MS tightened their focus even further.

Speaking as someone living in New Zealand, a lot of XBone's touted features are irrelevant...stuff like Hulu/Netflix isn't supported here.

PS4 is the go-to console.

 

[Deludedfool]

Pretty much every TV sold in Europe in the last decade has the capacity to output 60Hz, all you have to do is tell it that you want it to, my smart TV can go between 50, 60 and 120 automatically and does between TV, console and PC without so much as a stutter, my parent's much older non-smart TV can do 50/60 fine too. Yet apparently it's too much for the Xbone to be able to switch between output rates? Someone at Microsoft is staggeringly incompetent.

The biggest issue with this is the snap functionality, PAL TV is at 50hz and Xbox One games are 60hz but you can't have half the screen displaying one refresh rate and the other half another.

I can't believe they didn't think this through before releasing it, what a joke.

 

[snekadid]

Pretty much every TV sold in Europe in the last decade has the capacity to output 60Hz, all you have to do is tell it that you want it to, my smart TV can go between 50, 60 and 120 automatically and does between TV, console and PC without so much as a stutter, my parent's much older non-smart TV can do 50/60 fine too. Yet apparently it's too much for the Xbone to be able to switch between output rates? Someone at Microsoft is staggeringly incompetent.

Read the story.... It can switch between 50 and 60, but it can't do it automatically because it doesn't receive information from the TV.... a TV only accepts input. The Xbone can't tell there is a problem because the TV is a output device only. Of all the things I complain about the xbone for, that's not one of them.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

This has to be like that story about spiders getting inside a certain car and messing it up ... just one of those things that devs just don't even consider.

Not really, this is a basic AV issue that should have been first picked up in the design process.

it was probably just over looked.

In order for it to be missed by the repeated tests MS should have been done on a product that has had millions poured into it doesn't bode well for the Xbones reliability or MS's hardware development group.

 

[AstaresPanda]

Wasn't Microsoft's primary/intended audience US customers anyway? Everything marketed about the console sure seemed to be aimed at Americans.
> Massive TV emphasis
> Massive Sports emphasis (NFL?)
> Always online (reverted)
> Highly specific localization upon release, living anywhere other than the tiny list of countries = XBone won't work there (reverted?)

It's a well-known fact that MS consoles sell very poorly outside US/West, with XBone MS tightened their focus even further.

Speaking as someone living in New Zealand, a lot of XBone's touted features are irrelevant...stuff like Hulu/Netflix isn't supported here.

PS4 is the go-to console.

your right there everything i saw when they were showing Xbone seemed very geared towards US. I found it od anyway i mean its a GAME CONSOLE first and everything else second but not the XBONE.

 

[Exterminas]

Wasn't Microsoft's primary/intended audience US customers anyway? Everything marketed about the console sure seemed to be aimed at Americans.
> Massive TV emphasis
> Massive Sports emphasis (NFL?)
> Always online (reverted)
> Highly specific localization upon release, living anywhere other than the tiny list of countries = XBone won't work there (reverted?)

It's a well-known fact that MS consoles sell very poorly outside US/West, with XBone MS tightened their focus even further.

Speaking as someone living in New Zealand, a lot of XBone's touted features are irrelevant...stuff like Hulu/Netflix isn't supported here.

PS4 is the go-to console.

If you are asking European customers to pay the same (or even more) amount of money for your product and advertise features for it, then you have to deliver those features. No matter if your target audience was somewhere else.

Let me tell you, Microsoft did a big amount of advertisement here in Europe and it all contained these TV-Features, which are not compatible with most European country's television broadcasting laws.

At it's core this is at best a case of false advertising and at worst a case of poor business planning. A substantial amount - if not the majority - of MS' customers are not from the US.

 

[Weaver]

Further proof Microsoft doesn't develop anything outside of their Redmond bubble.

 

[blurredplacebo]

"50 FPS is the standard in the UK, and all PAL and SECAM regions, but it's 60 in the US" unfortunately that is wrong.

It's not FPS its hertz and the reason it's 50 hertz (same as our electricity supplies) for PAL and SECAM that it is interlaced(EG:1-3-5 then2-4-6 and so on) so it comes out to 25fps. For NTSC its 60 hertz refresh rate interlaced so to the eye it is approx 30 FPS.

 

[medv4380]

This has to be like that story about spiders getting inside a certain car and messing it up ... just one of those things that devs just don't even consider.

Not really, this is a basic AV issue that should have been first picked up in the design process.

it was probably just over looked.

In order for it to be missed by the repeated tests MS should have been done on a product that has had millions poured into it doesn't bode well for the Xbones reliability or MS's hardware development group.

Pretty sure they didn't miss it. Take a look at the countries most effected. They wen't from 21 countries to 13 countries on the run up to launch. Clearly there had to be a reason as to why they wanted to limit the countries at launch. The countries on the list are the ones they couldn't afford to not launch, or could launch, and MS could get away with it legally for some time until they fix it. They probably also bet that certain TV's would work just fin with it and were in a higher concentration in the launch countries.

However, this was a big bet by MS. The EU isn't exactly Buddy Buddy with them. The EU will do an investigation to find out if MS should have known. They'll quickly find out the MS should have had full knowledge of it, and if it's not fixed by then they will be hit with false advertising at the minimum.

 

[Simalacrum]

Wasn't Microsoft's primary/intended audience US customers anyway? Everything marketed about the console sure seemed to be aimed at Americans.
> Massive TV emphasis
> Massive Sports emphasis (NFL?)
> Always online (reverted)
> Highly specific localization upon release, living anywhere other than the tiny list of countries = XBone won't work there (reverted?)

It's a well-known fact that MS consoles sell very poorly outside US/West, with XBone MS tightened their focus even further.

Speaking as someone living in New Zealand, a lot of XBone's touted features are irrelevant...stuff like Hulu/Netflix isn't supported here.

PS4 is the go-to console.

I have to agree, everything from the features touted to the advertisement and marketing just screamed 'Murica.

Which is fair enough, considering Microsoft is a US company, but still? Sony managed to market its console to other markets perfectly well, despite being from Japan. Surely a little effort to make the Xbone more international-friendly would have been worth it?

 

[Tumedus]

Doesn't really matter if their major demographic was America, they advertised and sold it in Europe. One of the major advertising pushes for the damned thing was that it made your TV better. If they couldn't be bothered to get the basic TV compatibility issues right, when that functionality is essential to your major selling points, that is incompetence, plain and simple.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Read the story.... It can switch between 50 and 60, but it can't do it automatically because it doesn't receive information from the TV.... a TV only accepts input. The Xbone can't tell there is a problem because the TV is a output device only. Of all the things I complain about the xbone for, that's not one of them.

HDMI connections can go both ways, many TVs that use it are not output only. If this was somehow unforeseeable then fine, no derision, but it's been the standard output for screens in Europe and elsewhere forever, the Xbone is capable of switching outputs yet somebody at Microsoft decided not to bother or simply never considered or tested it. It's yet another thing on the big list titled Microsoft are a bunch of idiots along with most of what they've done so far with the Xbone.

 

[Karloff]

"50 FPS is the standard in the UK, and all PAL and SECAM regions, but it's 60 in the US" unfortunately that is wrong.

It's not FPS its hertz and the reason it's 50 hertz (same as our electricity supplies) for PAL and SECAM that it is interlaced(EG:1-3-5 then2-4-6 and so on) so it comes out to 25fps. For NTSC its 60 hertz refresh rate interlaced so to the eye it is approx 30 FPS.

Adjusted. Many thanks!

 

[tzimize]

Haha, how the hell can this not be one of the things the devs thought of?

 

[Drummodino]

Wasn't Microsoft's primary/intended audience US customers anyway? Everything marketed about the console sure seemed to be aimed at Americans.
> Massive TV emphasis
> Massive Sports emphasis (NFL?)
> Always online (reverted)
> Highly specific localization upon release, living anywhere other than the tiny list of countries = XBone won't work there (reverted?)

It's a well-known fact that MS consoles sell very poorly outside US/West, with XBone MS tightened their focus even further.

Speaking as someone living in New Zealand, a lot of XBone's touted features are irrelevant...stuff like Hulu/Netflix isn't supported here.

PS4 is the go-to console.

Hit the nail on the head there. As an Australian, I feel exactly the same way.