Payday 2 Microtransactions Are Here to Stay, Says Dev

[Steven Bogos]

Payday 2 Microtransactions Are Here to Stay, Says Dev

Payday 2 producer Almir Listo insists that the recently added microtransactions are not so bad, and are here to stay.

reddit for an AMA [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/payday%202?os=%20payday%202], which... didn't go over too well. In addition to claiming that the microtransaction are not so bad, necessary for the game's survival, and are here to stay, he straight up blamed media outlets for writing uninformed, "clickbait" articles that didn't accurately represent the new update. So, sorry for that, I guess.

"We understand that there is a lot of fury, anger and disappointment with us adding this. From an economical standpoint however, completely based on statistics, we can already see that the Black Market update is working as we intended," said Listo.

He deflected a lot of questions from the community with "PR" speak, particularly the one about why he is essentially going back on his "no microtransactions" promise. "We want to do everything we can to make Payday 2 as awesome as possible. In order to do that, we made the decision to triple the size of the crew. To ensure that we can keep the size of the team, we decided that the best approach was to introduce the Black Market update to the game."

The biggest problem players have with the update is that it essentially gives players willing to fork over extra cash for drills a statistical advantage (IE: "pay2win") to which Listo said:

"There are several arguments as to why we think stat boosts are OK to have in Payday 2, and here are three; - The game is balanced around the vanilla experience, that is, the game without any DLC. When we add any new difficulties, enemies, features, heists or otherwise, we balance this in relation to the base game. - Payday 2 is a player-versus-environment game. You and your three friends play together against the AI; you lose together and you win together. Any advantage your friends have will only benefit the success of the group. - Making sure that the boosts are balanced in such a way that it doesn't impare on the player's experience. This is an ongoing effort on our side."

You can read the full AMA here [https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/3q53ms/crimefest_is_over_ama_discussion_with_almir_on/]. What are your thoughts on the Black Market update and more importantly, how Listo and Overkill handled the blowback surrounding it?

Source: reddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/3q53ms/crimefest_is_over_ama_discussion_with_almir_on/]

Permalink

 

[mysecondlife]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself charging for microtransactions..

 

[Zontar]

Really? They're really going to pretend the game NEEDS microtransactions to survive? A game which turned a profit on pre-orders alone and had an advertising budget of 0$, and has DLC that rivals or even surpasses that of triple A games, and has itself been an avenue of promotion for OTHER games.

There's insulting your audience's intellect, then there's EA and Activision, and THEN there's that statement.

It was bad enough when they started mass banning hackers (this is probably the only game where the community LIKES hackers, I know for a fact some of the most fun I've had was with them due to just how crazy things got) but now doubling down on something we all hate that they promised wouldn't be in the game, that's a new low.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Well, then.

It was fun while it lasted, but I just can't support this game anymore.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

complaining about pay2win? in a cooperative game? You must be having a laugh.

I do not understand this outrage

 

[Pinky's Brain]

Guess it takes a lot of money to run a retirement home for incompetent developers.

 

[laggyteabag]

" From an economical standpoint however, completely based on statistics, we can already see that the Black Market update is working as we intended", ah yes, spoken like a true businessman.

 

[rcs619]

complaining about pay2win? in a cooperative game? You must be having a laugh.

I do not understand this outrage

I don't play Payday 2, but one of the big issues people have is how they implemented the DLC. You can win locked safes as mission complete rewards, but you can *only* unlock those safes with drills you purchase with real money. And you can get those safes instead of other bonuses you could actually use. So you've got a game 'rewarding' you with something you need to pay money to utilize, sometimes in place of stuff you could actually use.

The safes are a bit of a crap-shoot as well, and can actually unlock skins and add-ons for weapons you don't even own. You could spend money to unlock a safe, to win an add-on for a weapon that you would need to pay to get, since it's locked behind its own DLC wall.

So, just a terribly implemented system overall. DLC needs to be relatively unobtrusive or it's going to aggravate your player base. Shoving "please spend money on me!" messages in your face after you beat a level is something mobile games do, lol. Not PC games you already paid money to buy.

Either way, I can't wait for Jim Sterling to get around to this. He *loves* it when developers double-down on poorly-implemented DLC schemes with a bunch of vague corporate-speak.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well they are at least somewhat honest, i.e. the parts where they want to make extra cash and that microtransactions are their permanent feature now, also that they have a pro bullshitter on board.

Which is good to know when making informed purchasing decisions, and I will make sure not to purchase based on this information.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Really? They're really going to pretend the game NEEDS microtransactions to survive? A game which turned a profit on pre-orders alone and had an advertising budget of 0$, and has DLC that rivals or even surpasses that of triple A games, and has itself been an avenue of promotion for OTHER games.

Are you going to pretend as if keeping a team of developers working on the game after release doesn't cost anything? Yes, they made a profit from pre-orders alone, relative to the cost of developing and marketing the game prior to launch. That does not mean that they've made a profit from pre-orders relative to the 2 years of post-launch support the game has seen.

One of the reasons I stopped playing Payday 2 was because the amount of DLC simply became too staggering, but let's not act outraged at the fact that they keep supporting the game and the reason that they can do so by charging for most of the new content they release. The other option would be to stop supporting the game since there'd be no profit in it. I ain't a fan of the microtransactions (I am against them) but I can see how they would help keep the game profitable, which is exactly what the game is intended to do.

 

[Keoul]

Really? They're really going to pretend the game NEEDS microtransactions to survive? A game which turned a profit on pre-orders alone and had an advertising budget of 0$, and has DLC that rivals or even surpasses that of triple A games, and has itself been an avenue of promotion for OTHER games.

Are you going to pretend as if keeping a team of developers working on the game after release doesn't cost anything? Yes, they made a profit from pre-orders alone, relative to the cost of developing and marketing the game prior to launch. That does not mean that they've made a profit from pre-orders relative to the 2 years of post-launch support the game has seen.

One of the reasons I stopped playing Payday 2 was because the amount of DLC simply became too staggering, but let's not act outraged at the fact that they keep supporting the game and the reason that they can do so by charging for most of the new content they release. The other option would be to stop supporting the game since there'd be no profit in it. I ain't a fan of the microtransactions (I am against them) but I can see how they would help keep the game profitable, which is exactly what the game is intended to do.

Except what you've said is completely wrong.
http://www.overkillsoftware.com/two-more-years-of-payday-2/

They have a publisher who is paying them to continue updating the game, they are being paid, they don't need the money because someone else is paying for it, they've said it themselves. Money is definitely not an issue.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Except what you've said is completely wrong.
http://www.overkillsoftware.com/two-more-years-of-payday-2/

They have a publisher who is paying them to continue updating the game, they are being paid, they don't need the money because someone else is paying for it, they've said it themselves. Money is definitely not an issue.

Without trying to sound snide: Do you understand how capitalism works? 505 Games pay Overkill to make Payday 2. In return 505 Games gets most of the profit from Payday 2, the are also the ones who decide how much the game costs, what DLCs costs, if there should be microtransactions etc.. So 505 Games having signed Overkill on for two more years just means that 505 Games expect Payday 2 to remain profitable for them for two more years. That is, unless you believe that 505 Games are just throwing money out the window out of the kindness of their hearts.

So no, I am not wrong. At most I wasn't explicit enough about who makes the economical decisions in regards to Payday 2 and who makes most of the profit.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

Its great to see such blatant hypocrites, how many news articles on gaming sites have them quoted as saying "we won't do micro transactions" if nothing else you have to admire them for how willing they are to go back on their word for no other reason than they might remove micro transactions in the future.

 

[laggyteabag]

I don't play Payday 2, but one of the big issues people have is how they implemented the DLC. You can win locked safes as mission complete rewards, but you can *only* unlock those safes with drills you purchase with real money.

You can actually get drills at the end of missions now, too. Though I imagine that the drop rate is craaaaaaaaaazy low, seeing as Overkill would rather that you just paid the £2 or whatever.

 

[rcs619]

I don't play Payday 2, but one of the big issues people have is how they implemented the DLC. You can win locked safes as mission complete rewards, but you can *only* unlock those safes with drills you purchase with real money.

You can actually get drills at the end of missions now, too. Though I imagine that the drop rate is craaaaaaaaaazy low, seeing as Overkill would rather that you just paid the £2 or whatever.

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock. I don't necessarily mind DLC as long as it isn't being shoved in your face with big, bright "Sure you don't want to spend a couple bucks on me?" messages.

 

[gigastar]

Well, the guy answering the AMA seems to genuinely believe that the game is 'balanced around the vanilla experience'.

Try telling that to anyone who has run across a SWAT turret. If youre lucky youll only be laughed out of the room.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

" From an economical standpoint however, completely based on statistics, we can already see that the Black Market update is working as we intended", ah yes, spoken like a true businessman.

I cringed at that part. When you're trying to downplay the fact that you've lied to your fanbase in the name of profits, and are now nickle-and-dimeing your customers, it's probably a bad idea to flash your cash in their face.

Either way, I can't wait for Jim Sterling to get around to this. He *loves* it when developers double-down on poorly-implemented DLC schemes with a bunch of vague corporate-speak.

 

[Karadalis]

A Game that had a loyal fanbase? Just let me put it over there with the microtransactions.... aaaaaaand the fanbase is gone.

Great way to make your game completly irrelevant with one greedy cashgrab.

 

[Starik20X6]

About 3 days before the microtransactions happened, I was on the cusp of buying Payday 2 for my brother for his birthday. Decided against it because I'd already gone over budget and figured I'd get it for him for Christmas maybe. Now I get to get it for him for never. Good work Overkill- your desire for more money has now netted you no money.

 

[Bindal]

While I don't have an issue with Microtransactions per se, they need to be done right. And here, they were so badly done, it's not even funny.

Just to go through the list:
* "No Microtransactions" - that was a statement two years ago. And two years are quite a long time in which plans can change, I understand that. But that's not an excuse to not at least let people know beforehand about those changes. (But that people keep riding on that statement as if changes after two years would be impossible is also a bit silly.)
* Implementation as a "free reward" - if I have to pay to fully use it, it's not free. So, they shouldn't have made it a reward for Crimefest. At all.
* Statboost - While some of these stats ARE forgettable (+3 stability is not a lot when most weapon mods get you more and 100 is the cap), there are some that are NOT (+1 concealment - at a cap of 30 and it's rare to have mods raise it by more than 1. And if they do, it's at a huge cost of others stats). So, that is without a doubt a problem. And even for those forgettable stats, it's just wrong out of principle. There is nothing to talk about. Get rid of them or make them not affect the actual gameplay (a higher chance for infamous drops is probably a boost nobody would care about).
Do not that there are three types of stat-boosting skins: Skins themselves, pre-installed mods and ultra-rare legendary skins. The first one, skins straight up, are the biggest issue as they give boosts at no cost. Pre-installed mods are... well, just a bunch of pre-installed weapon mods, no different from building the same guy manually and even allows some people to use weapon mods they don't have normally due lack of respective DLCs. Legendary weapons are pre-build weapons with some massive boosts via mods but they CAN NOT be modified - no idea how they work out in terms of gameplay, however, as most people just sell them instead of using them. (The skins themselves are the issue here and the Legendary may also need a tweak)
* DLC-locked skins - should be obvious. It should NOT be possible to get a skin for a weapon you don't own. There would be several ways to solve that (double packs for skins, with one being garantueed to be a vanilla weapon), rerolls of what you got or just plain not allowing them to drop.
* Pricing - 2.49$, 2.19? or 1.80 Pounds - that's quite a bit. Not too bad, but it could be noticably lower. 1.50$ and equivalents, certainly.
* Lack of communication - we had to wait four days to get the info (and implimentation) that there would be free drill drops for people and until yesterday, until Overkill actually talked about the issue overall. That could have been done better, even going hand-in-hand with the already mentioned 'changes of plans'-announcement.

To call this book-example on how to screw things up would be a slight understandment, say the least. And they had a good example on how to add it right on a technical level with CS:GO.