Payday 2 Microtransactions Are Here to Stay, Says Dev

[Nazulu]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself charging for microtransactions..

It's not often I see someone improve a famous quote. Nice one. lol

OT: Anyway, the real problem here is that they handled this in an extremely poor way. They should have built up to it slowly and made sure it was well thought out to expand on the experience in only a good way, or at least do the best you can not to fuck it up.

 

[Erttheking]

Well I was praying for a mac port of this. Not so much now.

 

[RJ 17]

"I blame the games media for writing a bunch of mean-spirited, click-baiting article about this!"
"So the media just completely fabricated the fact that you assured fans of the series that there would be absolutely NO microtransations, ever, in Payday 2 and that you actually seemed almost insulted by the very notion?"
"Well...no...but the media didn't have to remind everyone that we said that!"

I'd imagine that's where the majority of this outrage is coming from: people don't like being lied to. The next bit is that people don't like having their intelligence insulted after you've lied to them. As such, doing a complete 180 from "Will there be microtransactions? No...NO! Oh GOD no! And fuck you for asking!" to "NO, SERIOUSLY! THESE MICROTRANSACTIONS ARE TOTES AH-MAY-ZAAAAH!!!!! The best part is that after you've paid for a drill to unlock the safe you could get a skin for a weapon in DLC that you don't own yet! You may think that's just pissing away your money and that we essentially just stole it right out of your wallet, we prefer to think of it as incentive for you to buy more of our stuff in the form of DLC!" is about the worst thing they could have possibly done.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock.

TF2 pioneered it, but simply picking vanilla soldier and knowing how to rocket jump already makes you better than 95% of the players on pub so meh.

 

[EbonBehelit]

"In order to do that, we made the decision to triple the size of the crew."

Lol. So lemme get this straight: they're essentially adding P2W microtransactions into the game to try and cover the cost of tripling their workforce, an action that (considering that the base game is already out) can only be for the purpose of cranking out even more DLC to peddle onto their playerbase.

I didn't like the game before. Now I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole. Gross.

 

[LaughingAtlas]

Saying the stat boosts and such don't matter because 'we win or lose together' is all well and good, but how long before people are kicked from game lobbies for not having the fanciest weapons? It'd be right in line with kicking people for not being at least some level of Infamous (which doesn't make tons of difference either), which already happens here and there. Higher-level Infamy players can be real elitist dirtbags as it is, and Jim Sterling's talked before about the Haves and Have-Nots situation pay-to-win mechanics create.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Found it again.

Hell, I've heard about people being kicked because they were using weapon skins, which sounds like a form of protest.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Seems a bad time to be a payday 2 fan. I was considering getting it cheap once, as DLC fests dishearten me at full price with their incompleteness. Now it looks to be a bit of a mess. Not worth the time or worry. I feel for the long running fans though, whether it's 505 or Overkill calling the shots for justifiable or non-justifiable reasons, it is still an unwise choice to deficate over your fans and tell them it's for their own good. More money or more trust? Decisions...hmm, trust doesn't maintain a class A drug habit lifestyle though.

"We can already see the Black Market update is working as intended."

Oops, a slip of the tongue or no self-awareness whatsoever?
Did Overkill have a change of management or something?
They could always make a new game instead bloating this one to an inpenetrable mass. But original ideas are too much hard work for some.

 

[Dominic Crossman]

I love how they put this on sale on psn and THEN introduced microtransitions. Oh well, didn't enjoy 1 so never got 2 anyways so no skin off my back

 

[happyninja42]

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock.

Doesn't Team Fortress 2 do this exact thing? It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall there is a small chance to get the keys to unlock the crates as a reward. Assuming I'm remembering correctly (and if I'm not, then ignore this question), is it any more ok that TF2 does it this way compared to Overkill?

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Damn, all this Payday 2 talk made me want to play it again

I feel like I'm doing this wrong....

 

[freaper]

And like that..

Spoiler: *poof*

..my trust and support is gone.

 

[rcs619]

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock.

Doesn't Team Fortress 2 do this exact thing? It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall there is a small chance to get the keys to unlock the crates as a reward. Assuming I'm remembering correctly (and if I'm not, then ignore this question), is it any more ok that TF2 does it this way compared to Overkill?

No idea, I don't play TF2. I didn't even realize it had anything to unlock, lol. Besides, like, the hats anyway. It's just a class-based FPS.

 

[Andy Shandy]

"We expanded far too fast for out own good (and that's still not enough to keep the console versions up to date from what I've heard) and now you're going to pay for it"

Welp. Sad to say, but I don't think I'll bother with Overkill's stuff from now on.

 

[Naldan]

Everytime someone writes or says "2 years can be a long time and things change!", something dies.

You put out a product. You advertise the product in a certain way. Then you alter your product so it doesn't reflect your promises.

How in the fuck can someone even defend this shit? If it's so inprofitable for you, don't support it with a certain time for your customers to prepare for this moment.

If you need microtransactions for your product, put it in the next. Make it clear.

But I bought the game because they promised this. I bought the DLCs because I wanted to support them.

Like this, all outrage is absolutely justified. There is absolutely no excuse based on time and profitability for this.

Do this with your next product, cease support for this. Nobody in their right mind would expect a life-long server support. But like this, it's a trainwreck. And with every other product from a different industry, at least here in EU/Germany, this were close to a fraud.

edit:

One of the rare cases where I really don't mind if this developer shuts down. How do they expect any trust from their customer base for future products? Do they even intend to develope a successor? I won't buy any product whatsoever from this dev and this publisher ever again. They could alter the shit out of their product.

"Who says that it would be multiplayer after, I don't know, 3 months? Peer-to-peer. Dedicated servers became to expensive after 3 months. Even though we advertised with dedicated servers, I don't give a shit. Money." And yes I know that there are no dedicated servers for PayDay 2. This is just an example.

And please don't think that the publisher had no hand in this. It's always like this and since they won't backstab their devs (which I understand), they wouldn't come out and say: "It totally was Overkill, you guys!".

This legal entities are from a customer perspective dead to me.

 

[Benpasko]

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock.

Doesn't Team Fortress 2 do this exact thing? It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall there is a small chance to get the keys to unlock the crates as a reward. Assuming I'm remembering correctly (and if I'm not, then ignore this question), is it any more ok that TF2 does it this way compared to Overkill?

The differences are vast. TF2 is free to play, the items from crates can drop normally, and they don't give stat boosts. I've wanted weapon skins in PD2 for a while, but this implementation is ridiculous. I hate crate drops in games that I DIDN'T pay over 100$ for including DLC. I was hoping they'd back down, but this ama got me to uninstall Payday 2 forever.

 

[happyninja42]

Well that's a slight improvement. Still doesn't seem quite right to 'reward' a player with something they either have to pay money or get a rare drop to unlock.

Doesn't Team Fortress 2 do this exact thing? It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall there is a small chance to get the keys to unlock the crates as a reward. Assuming I'm remembering correctly (and if I'm not, then ignore this question), is it any more ok that TF2 does it this way compared to Overkill?

The differences are vast. TF2 is free to play, the items from crates can drop normally, and they don't give stat boosts. I've wanted weapon skins in PD2 for a while, but this implementation is ridiculous. I hate crate drops in games that I DIDN'T pay over 100$ for including DLC. I was hoping they'd back down, but this ama got me to uninstall Payday 2 forever.

Point of fact, some people did pay for TF2, it wasn't always FTP. Though if the items in the safes can't be obtained any other way, then there is some disparity in it. But I dunno, I personally don't see the issue much, except for the getting safes as loot instead of something else part, that does suck. But then again, I stopped giving a shit about loot in PD2 long ago. I've got the weapons I need and I'm fine with them.

And yeah, I do think the "pay to win" argument is a little odd, considering it is a coop game. It doesn't detract from your game if they have better gear than you. Hell that happens all the time even in the vanilla game if you haven't found the loot you want. The more important issue is if you are skilled enough to play regardless of gear.

*shrugs* Maybe I'm biased since I play PD2 stealth exclusively, where your gear is basically pointless. I don't care about having the best armor, as I never wear it. I don't care about what gun I have equipped, other than if it's silenced, and reduces my detection as low as possible. Beyond that, it's all just window dressing for me. I've seriously not bothered to get anything new, or pay any attention to what item I get as my reward at the end of a mission in over a year or more. And this is mostly with just a vanilla game, I don't have many DLC items at all.

Maybe if I rolled loud it would be a bigger issue, but then I dunno, I still wouldn't really have a problem with other players having good gear that I don't have. They just make the heist easier for me.

 

[Something Amyss]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself charging for microtransactions..

Does that mean these are the mirotransactions we deserve, but not the ones we need?

Doesn't Team Fortress 2 do this exact thing? It's been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall there is a small chance to get the keys to unlock the crates as a reward. Assuming I'm remembering correctly (and if I'm not, then ignore this question), is it any more ok that TF2 does it this way compared to Overkill?

While I know TF2 was originally not a F2P game, the practice you're talking about post-dates the F2P shift, yes? Payday 2 is still charging, and the only thing that's changed is that they temporarily discounted the game. It's already back to 20 bucks, for the record.

I'm not a fan of P2W mechanics, so I'm not saying I'd be positive about this change even if it was F2P, but I do think there's something different when you add F2P mechanics into a game with an existing, up-front cost.

 

[Bindal]

And yeah, I do think the "pay to win" argument is a little odd, considering it is a coop game.

Then let's the "insta-win"-button DLC. Use it and you instantly win. Must be totally fair because it's coop, right?
It's the same logic - even in a Coop game, you NEED some resemblance of balance. And DLCs, for the most part, did have some balance as while you got some advantages, you also had some downsides. For example, the cavity 9mm - great concealment out of the box and good damage. But horrible ammo capacity and locked to semi-automatic (basically the only assault rifle in the entire game).
These skins? Straight up stat boosts at ZERO drawback.
Want one more concealment for you Judge? One of the two skins does that (The Pixel skin, specifically) Meaning just by using the skin, you're at the concealment cap while you weren't before. Which can make a HUGE difference.
One more damage? Can get you above a breakpoint to one-shot enemies you couldn't kill before.

While I know TF2 was originally not a F2P game, the practice you're talking about post-dates the F2P shift, yes? Payday 2 is still charging, and the only thing that's changed is that they temporarily discounted the game. It's already back to 20 bucks, for the record.

TF2 did that quite a bit before it went F2P, starting with the Mannconomy update, which came quite a while before the game went F2P.
And CS:GO still has the same system since it intruced its skins and is STILL charging for it. A bit less than Payday 2 does as base game, but it still charges nontheless.

 

[Nurb]

And just like that, a game that which was praised by making money without resorting to microtransactions falls to the dark side.

 

[BeerTent]

How not to do an AMA.

Lesson one...

That guyyy~

As someone who plays with a regular "crew" (I barely ever play the game outside my RL circle) the microtransaction shindig doesn't really affect me other than "Can I sell this on the steam marketplace for a rube to buy? Oh, well... Lookadat... Yes. I can."

That being said, I still believe the outrage is justified. The first post I read in the AMA immediately set the tone for the entire thing.

"I'm right, you're wrong."

This update has turned the game up-side down, and while I applaud the attempt to fight power-creep, the only real way to resolve the problem and make the game balanced for everyone is to remove the weapon DLC, which is something that I would not like at all. The game was Pay-To-Win long before this crimefest event. Long before these events. The sniper update started it, and then came the bbq update. One could argue that people could grind to 5-100 much faster by having someone with the mission DLC, as mission DLC gave excessive rewards over non-paid content.

It's a fun game, but the game has been going downhill for a very long time.