285: Hard-Earned Victories

[The Random One]

Shamus Young has a couple of nice articles on this subject. One came out, what, two weeks ago? Essentially, it depends on the gamer. A gamer that wants to enjoy a world or a story doesn't want difficulty to get on her way, at least not unreasonably so, and doesn't want to get stuck because she wants to know what happens next. A gamer that wants to enjoy gameplay wants a challenge because that's what gameplay is composed of: if a challenge isn't hard she can just waltz up to the enemies and shoot them in the face, and use the tools a game provides to 'make believe' and play the game the way the devs intended when it's not optimal is unsatisfying.

Of course, a game with a good story that enslaves gameplay to it isn't doing a good job. It's like... It's like a Weird Al parody. It's funny and it'll make you laugh, but you're not going to compliment Weird Al on the melody, because he didn't even write it. He's just using it to deliver a joke. So your enjoyment of it depends on your enjoyment of the text, not on the enjoyment of the song, and in fact you may enjoy parodies of songs you don't like even better. You'll like it as a joke, not as a song. Likewise, a game that has great story but poor gameplay may be enjoyed as a story, but not as a game.

(Before someone points out Weird Al doesn't write only parodies, I know, and that's why I said Weird Al parody specifically. I guess his polka medleys still don't quite classify in my example. In sum, shut up.)

Under that division, it seems that gamers that enjoy a challenge are being more true to gaming. But exploration, enjoyment of a world, is also something that only games can fully provide and is also something that an easier game will do a better job at delivering. It comes back to what a gamer wants and expects of her games.

Looks like I just rediscovered the (genre) wheel here.

 

[Dastardly]

Shamus Young has a couple of nice articles on this subject. One came out, what, two weeks ago? Essentially, it depends on the gamer. A gamer that wants to enjoy a world or a story doesn't want difficulty to get on her way, at least not unreasonably so, and doesn't want to get stuck because she wants to know what happens next. A gamer that wants to enjoy gameplay wants a challenge because that's what gameplay is composed of: if a challenge isn't hard she can just waltz up to the enemies and shoot them in the face, and use the tools a game provides to 'make believe' and play the game the way the devs intended when it's not optimal is unsatisfying.

Of course, a game with a good story that enslaves gameplay to it isn't doing a good job. It's like... It's like a Weird Al parody. It's funny and it'll make you laugh, but you're not going to compliment Weird Al on the melody, because he didn't even write it. He's just using it to deliver a joke. So your enjoyment of it depends on your enjoyment of the text, not on the enjoyment of the song, and in fact you may enjoy parodies of songs you don't like even better. You'll like it as a joke, not as a song. Likewise, a game that has great story but poor gameplay may be enjoyed as a story, but not as a game.

(Before someone points out Weird Al doesn't write only parodies, I know, and that's why I said Weird Al parody specifically. I guess his polka medleys still don't quite classify in my example. In sum, shut up.)

Under that division, it seems that gamers that enjoy a challenge are being more true to gaming. But exploration, enjoyment of a world, is also something that only games can fully provide and is also something that an easier game will do a better job at delivering. It comes back to what a gamer wants and expects of her games.

Looks like I just rediscovered the (genre) wheel here.

I think the problem is that stories need an element of challenge to them, too. The best stories, at least. They should challenge you to think differently about something, challenge you to think ahead of the story, in some way engage you to think about what you're reading and then think just a liiiittle bit beyond it.

So, even if you're just playing the game as a mildly-interactive story, that doesn't mean it should be absent of difficulty, even if it's something so simple as challenging your expectations of a story or character. But if we get too wrapped up in the "comfort" of the player, we'll lose even that. Games will become eBooks on the level of Little Golden Books, telling the same story with different costumes over and over.

 

[Hyperactiveman]

Damn this makes me want to get Super Meat Boy even more... On top of the fact that some of my friends have it or want it.

I've seen it being played and I gotta say I could really get into it but...

Still unnerved by the fact that I'd probably have to go buy another keyboard after playing just five minutes of such a game that's as frustrating as this.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

There's something about your last line that I take a bit of issue with. There aren't arrows, but for the most part our paths are extremely guided. Advisers, peers, parents, banks, loans, scholarships, lecturers, teachers, brothers, sisters, fraternities, sororities, even the guy we talk to at the counter of the gas station all tell us to keep going, to do this, to do this, to do that, to keep going. Deviating from that at all gets all kinds of immediate feedback, both positive, and, mostly, negative. Try starting a project, telling all your friends about it. Be really excited for it. After a month, having worked for a time, abandon the project, leaving it prominently about, that others may see it. Do not alter it now, and when asked, look at it as if it has disappointed you, and say you have given up. I'd be willing to bet a few bills that someone will tell you that you should finish it. The same would happen with projects, schooling, housing, occupations, odd or eccentric collections, lifelong goals, what have you. We are very guided in our lives--even with out the arrows.

 

[Oyster^^]

Super weird that I spent 5 hours playing "theworldshardestgame" today for the first time and then BOOM this article is up. Dunno if any of you have tried it before, its... interesting. Trial and error trial and error. And the controls (unlike SMB etc) are pretty balls. Controller > laptop arrow keys

I have to agree though, beating level 25 today after literally dying more than a hundred times (yeah I kinda suck) was super awesome good. I would have done all the way up to 30 after if I didn't have to start studying for my two finals that are now in less than 12 hours...

 

[Stryc9]

I purchased Super Meat Boy yesterday and I've put 3 hours into it since, it would be more by now but..stuff to do right? I have to say that it's one of the best games I've played this year. The controls are great, I'm using a Logitech Dual Action gamepad and Meat Boy does what I tell him to every time, the only time I die is when I fuck up...and that happens a lot...sometimes on purpose ^_^.

I think a pretty good chunk of the fun I have with it is seeing the replay at the end of any level where I've died a bunch of times, like more than 10 deaths, and seeing the number of Meat Boys get thinned out as they progress through the level in a bloody spray.

 

[mjc0961]

One of my favorite things about Super Meat Boy is that when you finally win, not only do you get a replay of your victory, but it shows all your other Meat Boys dying along the way. That certainly was a very nice touch from the developers.

I need to get a different controller though, because I have some problems with the responsiveness of my jump button from time to time. I'll probably just hook up my 360 controller to the computer pretty soon because this old gamepad I had lying around doesn't seem to be cutting it.

Prolly not what I should be focusing on, but, "Next-Gen"? So The ps2 and NGC are Current Gen still?

Also this. 360, PS3, and Wii are no longer next gen. They stopped being next gen when they came out, at which point they became the current generation.

 

[duchaked]

I discovered Meat Boy online...then Super Meat Boy came out
...good grief it's kicking my butt like no other

but yeah I really do feel what the article's talking about with what you remember
I've become a passive gamer since I no longer have as much time to game as before
but doing some runs through FPS games like MW2 and Reach on the hardest difficulties really did change how I recalled stuff from the game (like how I got through this insane part or that...I can do a walkthrough! even if I'm not the best gamer...altho not for CoD I basically just hid under a table the whole game through)

 

[Premonition]

After I read the title to this article and the description I was like: Yeah, I was just playing Super Meat Boy the other day ... and then I clicked the link only to see Super Meat Boy picture. And I lawled.

 

[Electrogecko]

I agree. I love the Mega Man games and similarly difficult games for this reason.

 

[Therumancer]

Well, other than finding the handle "The Tet Offensive" kind of tasteless, I pretty much agree with this article.

As the industry changes, and games become increasingly easy, I think it's hurting itself. I see people mentioning that they feel games just aren't all that fulfilling anymore with some frequency. As I mentioned elsewhere here on "The Escapist" that games are a hobby, and beating a game is sort of like a hobby modeler finishing a paticularly difficult boat or plane or whatever. In the end you achieve little of lasting value, but you know you did something not everyone could accomplish. In the end a model gets thrown away to make space, and a video game fades from memory, but what you were striving for was fundementally the same.

I think right now a big part of the problem is the idea that games are intended to tell a story, and as such it's unthinkable for a player not to be able to finish that story. I think as a design philosophy this is problematic, finishing the story being your incentive/reward for all the challenge that should be involved.

I personally am not a big fan of platformers or shooters (though I used to love them), personally I pine for the days of epic RPGs, with tons of stats and things to manipulate. Games where you would develop an entire party of adventurers from scratch (which still happens, but is increasinly rare). I like seeing those changes to numbers, gears,a and skill selections come together for differant reults, and having challenges to face based on the mental exercise of building my characters. Even with games like "Dragon Quest IX" you just don't see things like building up to beat "The Beast With A Thousand Eyes" in The Tomb Of Gorrors (not a mispelling) in "Wizardry: Crusaders Of The Dark Savant". The basic idea today being that your casual player will not be able to do that kind of thing, so it shouldn't be in the game, never mind doing things like navigating the Amazulu pyramid, or breaking the crystal prison in "Wizardry: Bane Of The Cosmic Forge".

 

[Therumancer]

Well, other than finding the handle "The Tet Offensive" kind of tasteless...

What an odd thing to say. That's the common name for it; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive.

Somehow I misread the article's beginning and thought he was calling himself "Tet Offensive" on XBL or something, which isn't even close to say what he said. Hence the oddness.

 

[Alphakirby]

Haven't played in a bit but i've completed ~230 levels on SMB including Cotton Valley & "The Kid" Warp zone, although by all means most Dark World levels and "-" levels are harder.

I spent ~4 hours getting "The Kid". I was playing non-stop and my gf was just doing thing around the house. The last level took me the longest, probably because my thumbs were sore and my eyes were burnt from being focused for so long. My gf was able to watch Space Jam all the while I was constantly dieing from the flying spikes, eventually the movie was over, she was passed out and I was getting frustrated. I said to myself "Alright one last go", and then I made it. That feeling was absolutely awesome, it's like I'd been holding my breath for the past 4 hours and finally got to breath.

Wow,I only just unlocked Super Meat World (Mid-January patch for PC) with 20 bandages and before that I'm stuck on the third level of The End (Keyboard control is a pain in both the metaphorical and literal means,CARPAL TUNNEL LIMBO MAMBO!) Give yourself a cookie good sir!

 

[Mister Benoit]

Haven't played in a bit but i've completed ~230 levels on SMB including Cotton Valley & "The Kid" Warp zone, although by all means most Dark World levels and "-" levels are harder.

I spent ~4 hours getting "The Kid". I was playing non-stop and my gf was just doing thing around the house. The last level took me the longest, probably because my thumbs were sore and my eyes were burnt from being focused for so long. My gf was able to watch Space Jam all the while I was constantly dieing from the flying spikes, eventually the movie was over, she was passed out and I was getting frustrated. I said to myself "Alright one last go", and then I made it. That feeling was absolutely awesome, it's like I'd been holding my breath for the past 4 hours and finally got to breath.

Wow,I only just unlocked Super Meat World (Mid-January patch for PC) with 20 bandages and before that I'm stuck on the third level of The End (Keyboard control is a pain in both the metaphorical and literal means,CARPAL TUNNEL LIMBO MAMBO!) Give yourself a cookie good sir!

If you can pick up a wired 360 controller, they work very well for most PC games and especially SMB. You can probably find them pretty cheap.

 

[Alphakirby]

Haven't played in a bit but i've completed ~230 levels on SMB including Cotton Valley & "The Kid" Warp zone, although by all means most Dark World levels and "-" levels are harder.

I spent ~4 hours getting "The Kid". I was playing non-stop and my gf was just doing thing around the house. The last level took me the longest, probably because my thumbs were sore and my eyes were burnt from being focused for so long. My gf was able to watch Space Jam all the while I was constantly dieing from the flying spikes, eventually the movie was over, she was passed out and I was getting frustrated. I said to myself "Alright one last go", and then I made it. That feeling was absolutely awesome, it's like I'd been holding my breath for the past 4 hours and finally got to breath.

Wow,I only just unlocked Super Meat World (Mid-January patch for PC) with 20 bandages and before that I'm stuck on the third level of The End (Keyboard control is a pain in both the metaphorical and literal means,CARPAL TUNNEL LIMBO MAMBO!) Give yourself a cookie good sir!

If you can pick up a wired 360 controller, they work very well for most PC games and especially SMB. You can probably find them pretty cheap.

I didn't think it would cost any less than a normal one,still I'm planning of getting a 360 controller for my laptop,otherwise the dark world is a pipe dream...