289: My Nintendo Shame

Toriver

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Jan 25, 2010
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I tend to think that the main problem with the Wii is marketing. Nintendo is trying to market to too many quite divergent market bases all at once and can't seem to pick a niche to stick with. They're trying to appeal to "hardcore" and "casual" gamers, as well as trying to make the Wii even into a handy tool for those who won't even use it to play actual games. Not to mention the very different tastes of the Japanese market vs. the Western market, and it is my belief that Nintendo is actually focusing on trying to beat Sony in Japan (it IS a Japanese company after all), and has all but given up the Western "hardcore" market to the 360. (NOTE: The 360 has failed on a Dreamcast-like scale in Japan, leaving Nintendo and Sony to duke it out basically by themselves for market share.) Being here in Japan, I tend to notice something about Nintendo's games this generation that perhaps others may not; they are also appealing much more to a Japanese-style aesthetic in general. Japanese gamers are eating up the brightly-colored, "cute" and anime-style games like hotcakes, which accounts for a larger portion of the Wii library here than those of the PS3 or 360, which tend to offer a lot of dark, gritty, grey-and-brown styles. The Wii also tends to offer more of Japanese gamers' preferred genres in JRPGs, puzzle games, and at least here in Japan, visual novels. The 360's primary focus on FPS and Western RPGs from launch hurt it big time here in Japan, and it has yet to recover, even after scoring some big Square Enix JRPG titles (and watching them flop hard, even here... you're not going to sell consoles if your games play like crap, even if they're S-E, Microsoft). And let's not forget the ever-dominating presence of Pokemon among kids here that has yet to subside. Japan is still riding the Pokemon frenzy hard, and Nintendo will go all out on that if it has to in order to bring in money. The point is, while the West may have "grown out" of Nintendo to a large degree, Japan still loves them, and Nintendo has moved hard to fill the market left by the absence of 360 sales here. I am seeing this also reflected in even the first-party software being released for the Wii and DS.

And focusing more on younger gamers in general, no matter where they live, will also have an effect on how we view them. As those who grew up with Mario, Zelda and Pokemon grow older, many of us have been looking for our games to "grow up" with us. Microsoft and Sony zoomed in on the adult market and offered a shit-ton of the "mature" experience many teen and adult gamers were looking for. Nintendo chose to focus more on being a "family" console... and cashed in, big time. Parents would prove to be a bit more uneasy about buying their kids either a console whose main titles included huge-muscled soldiers with machine guns as big as their biceps, or an overpriced behemoth featuring an enraged warrior god as its main attraction, instead turning to the lovable home of Mario for their kids. It also helped that for once, they could actually find something that they would be able to enjoy on it themselves. What do you think Nintendo is going to do, scrap all that because some "hardcore" fans want Mario to start kicking a little more koopa ass in his games? Hardly. They'll go where the cash is.

So I don't blame Nintendo for being a business about games and going all out for the markets that now have the highest demand for the same types of products they have offered in the past. If we "hardcore" gamers now prefer to game on the 360 or the PS3, so be it. Let's game on those. TBH, I have both a 360 and a Wii, and my 360 easily gets the lion's share of the play time. But that doesn't mean I'm going to feel betrayed or begrudge Nintendo for "turning its back" on me. Nintendo had no obligation to me to begin with. I will still play my favorite Nintendo series, like Mario, Zelda, and Kirby, because they are fun, and I will not be embarrassed about saying it to other gamers. So what if it's not "cool"? It's fun and it appeals to me, and that's all that should matter. Play the games that appeal to you, no matter what platform they're on.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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I don't respect Nintendo for their games. I'm FAR too young to have Nintendo infused in my very essence like many gamers here do. I never owned (or for that matter have ever SEEN) an NES or SNES.

Here's what i DO respect Nintendo for. From the purely hardware/concept perspective Nintendo INVENTED Video Gaming.

D pad: invented by Nintendo
Analog stick: invented by Nintendo
The four buttons (A,B,X,Y) system: Nintendo

Handheld Gaming: Nintendo
Platformers: Nintendo
Third person adventure games: Nintendo (Mario 64)
Motion Gaming: Nintendo
The "Defeat monster to rescue Princess" concept [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.257698-The-Gaping-Hole-at-the-heart-of-Gaming] that runs 60% of the story games industry : Nintendo

Need any more?

Oh wait. one last one: Virtual boy predicted the rise of the 3D fad.

They deserve Credit and all the respect in the world.....just not for their software, imo.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
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Apr 1, 2009
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Whatever, just wash your hands.
coldfrog said:
The killing blow is dropping names of what was once another huge nintendo exclusive: Castlevania. Sure, some of the arguably best titles were on other systems, but I will always think of Castlevania as a Nintendo series.
there have only been 2 good castlevania games for other consoles.... 3 if you liked the new one that just came out for the 360/ps3, I dont know why they stopped making 2d games for console systems but at least they keep putting them on the ds
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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And that is why I also have a PS3, 360, and PC. Sure, I'm enjoying Kirby's Epic Yarn while it lasts, but once I finish blowing through it, it's time for some LittleBigPlanet 2 (if the FedEX jerks ever get here to deliver it).

I know what you mean with the disappointment in rushing out to get it and then it's just like "I was in a frenzy to get this thing?!" I stayed on Amazon's Wii page for 8 hours on launch day hitting F5 waiting for that order button to appear, and when it finally did I was so happy. Then I got it, and played for a while, and it was just like... Damn. I had expected this revolutionary new way to play, and most of what I have is just disappointing waggling instead of pushing a button. Boo! My Wii is easily the most dusty console I have now. Every now and then something comes out that makes me dust it off, but if this was the only current gen console I had I would probably have to find a new hobby.

Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
That was absolutely hilarious and true. It's okay Miyamoto, I enjoyed The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess right when they both came out.

Toriver said:
A standing ovation for you, sir. That was brilliant.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
 

squeakthedragon

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May 5, 2009
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The article is charming and makes me imagine Matt Cassamania if he was: A. a girl, and B. not quote so much a lunatic raving troll-disguised-as-fanboy.

Still, this is the wrong year for it. When Nintendo publishes Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Donkey Kong Country Returns, and a new Kirby platformer in one year... yeah. They're not lacking anything.

However, the thing that one can't take seriously about this sort of stuff, is the idea that such Nintendo fans somehow are suffering in isolation; as if they don't all have Xbox 360s or PS3s as well. It comes out sounding as if they desperately want to buy a second copy of Modern Warfare 2 for their Wii to play online there on Tuesdays.

What is actually crippling about Nintendo's online infrastructure this generation is the lack of ability for title updates. Console games being frozen in launch form has come to seem a lot more painful this generation as we have seen how much post-release support can do. (Saying that the Wii merely forces developers to "finish" their games before releasing them doesn't entirely compensate. Plenty of Wii games, including some 1st party, have been released with serious glitches, design oversights, and just plain awful decisions in otherwise good games. Also, it totally prevented any older games from being updated to support Motion+... had that been possible, Motion+ likely would have been a far more crucial update to the console.)

The Xbox and Playstation platforms have the elite hardcore market wrapped up, and they always would have; had Nintendo released a "hardcore" platform like the Gamecube this generation, they would have just about failed.

In a sense, the real mistake with the Wii was perhaps an unavoidable one; even Nintendo didn't project this kind of runaway success, and so were very conservative about what they invested into the development and manufacturing of the base design, and into their online infrastructure. If they could have been more certain it'd go over so well, I'm willing to bet we would have seen a Wii with a bigger jump in hardware power, and more money put into a comprehensive online support network.

But Nintendo is purely a game company; they have nothing to fall back on if they bleed money. A single mistake - such as a Wii that they couldn't break even on - could have ruined them.
 

squeakthedragon

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danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
See: the corner Nintendo was backed into. Sure, it's their fault; as much as it would be anyone's fault who was forced to pick a number of imperfect solutions in a bad situation.

And it remains pretty funny when people blame Nintendo for terrible 3rd party support, when it's been clear from the start that 3rd parties have just been way too conservative, dumb, and confused to figure out what they could do with the Wii. They wanted the Wii to go the hell away, so they could just focus on a known quantity with the HD systems.
 

Aura Guardian

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Apr 23, 2008
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danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
Nintendo doesn't care about that. They are a business. They focus on the crowd that wasn't so damn picky. And the result is...they are successful. Blame the fans. Plus...Nintendo focuses on local and most importantly...fun.

EDIT
squeakthedragon said:
danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
See: the corner Nintendo was backed into. Sure, it's their fault; as much as it would be anyone's fault who was forced to pick a number of imperfect solutions in a bad situation.

And it remains pretty funny when people blame Nintendo for terrible 3rd party support, when it's been clear from the start that 3rd parties have just been way too conservative, dumb, and confused to figure out what they could do with the Wii. They wanted the Wii to go the hell away, so they could just focus on a known quantity with the HD systems.
This too
 

necronmm

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Dec 14, 2010
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Good read, I feel pretty much the same way about Nintendo now. It's really sad that they're using nostalgia to sell games.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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GrizzlerBorno said:
I don't respect Nintendo for their games. I'm FAR too young to have Nintendo infused in my very essence like many gamers here do. I never owned (or for that matter have ever SEEN) an NES or SNES.

Here's what i DO respect Nintendo for. From the purely hardware/concept perspective Nintendo INVENTED Video Gaming.

D pad: invented by Nintendo
Analog stick: invented by Nintendo
The four buttons (A,B,X,Y) system: Nintendo

Handheld Gaming: Nintendo
Platformers: Nintendo
Third person adventure games: Nintendo (Mario 64)
Motion Gaming: Nintendo
The "Defeat monster to rescue Princess" concept [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.257698-The-Gaping-Hole-at-the-heart-of-Gaming] that runs 60% of the story games industry : Nintendo

Need any more?

Oh wait. one last one: Virtual boy predicted the rise of the 3D fad.

They deserve Credit and all the respect in the world.....just not for their software, imo.
Dpad: Mattel's Intellivision
Analog Stick: Atari 5200
Handheld Gaming: Mattel again
Platformer: Space Panic is sometimes considered the first platformer, but Nintendo did make the first one that satisfies all modern definitions, so sure.
3rd person adventure: Three dimensional third person adventure game is so specific I am having trouble finding out who invented it. There were certainly other 3rd person games before, so it's not exactly a big deal.
Motion Gaming: I don't know who tried it first, but the eyetoy came before the wii, so it wasn't the wii

So really Nintendo has:

Platformer, and arguably was the first one to use 3d 3rd person perspective for an action game, but I wouldn't call that an "invention" and four buttons

I think you might be getting "invented" mixed up with "popularized" but even if you mean popularized, many of these are still wrong.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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squeakthedragon said:
danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
See: the corner Nintendo was backed into. Sure, it's their fault; as much as it would be anyone's fault who was forced to pick a number of imperfect solutions in a bad situation.

And it remains pretty funny when people blame Nintendo for terrible 3rd party support, when it's been clear from the start that 3rd parties have just been way too conservative, dumb, and confused to figure out what they could do with the Wii. They wanted the Wii to go the hell away, so they could just focus on a known quantity with the HD systems.
Considering other companies have avoided this supposed corner, it's still Nintendo's fault.

Also, it IS their fault for the 3rd party support, companies would LOVE to tap into the Wii's INSANELY huge market, it's like a gold mine, but the terrible support for 3rd party developers prevents them from cost effectively attempting to make original IP's, the problem is with the inferior capabilities the system offers, that's Nintendo's fault.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
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Aura Guardian said:
danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
Nintendo doesn't care about that. They are a business. They focus on the crowd that wasn't so damn picky. And the result is...they are successful. Blame the fans. Plus...Nintendo focuses on local and most importantly...fun.
I know they don't care about "that" ("that" being online play, third party support, and creative IP's)

so explain to me, when you yourself just said they don't care, that they aren't to blame for these problems? There is no originality in the titles coming out for the Wii, and your interpretation of "fun" is subjective.
 

D Moness

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Sep 16, 2010
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danpascooch said:
Four buttons: four button system? That was PSOne, the early Nintendo consoles didn't have that system, they had two buttons, and the N64 still used two primary buttons.
I can be wrong but didn't the snes had 4 buttons a,b,y,x and as far as i remember that was WAY before the psone
 

TheCakeisALie87

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D Moness said:
danpascooch said:
Four buttons: four button system? That was PSOne, the early Nintendo consoles didn't have that system, they had two buttons, and the N64 still used two primary buttons.
I can be wrong but didn't the snes had 4 buttons a,b,y,x and as far as i remember that was WAY before the psone
Completely correct, the SNES had four buttons plus R and L which makes six (obviously not counting start and select since they are rarely used in games). However, for many games the buttons were paired so A and B would be the same as would X and Y, R/L usually did the opposite of each other.
 

Aura Guardian

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Apr 23, 2008
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danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
danpascooch said:
Aura Guardian said:
That article was annoying to read because you reminded me of those "fans"
Nintendo isn't to blame.
They made a console with inferior capabilities, almost nonexistant online play, and crappy third party support that leads to things like "Wii Carnival Games" instead of creative IP's

How the hell are they not to blame?
Nintendo doesn't care about that. They are a business. They focus on the crowd that wasn't so damn picky. And the result is...they are successful. Blame the fans. Plus...Nintendo focuses on local and most importantly...fun.
I know they don't care about "that" ("that" being online play, third party support, and creative IP's)

so explain to me, when you yourself just said they don't care, that they aren't to blame for these problems? There is no originality in the titles coming out for the Wii, and your interpretation of "fun" is subjective.
Fun last time I check was having a good time playing a game. With or without friends. With online being implemented in a lot of games, fun is not competition to be the best. Now-a-days, there is no originality in titles coming out for ANY system. And when it does. It flops because of the mainstream titles. This has been going on for a while.