297: The Princess Problem

[wetcoast]

I think the real issue is that most games continue to be designed by hetero males for hetero males. So, video games are designed from a male point of view and tend to treat females as stereotypes -- passive, objectified and one-dimensional -- a prize to be obtained. Even when the "hero" is ostensibly a woman (think of Lara Croft) s/he is more a teenage boy's idea of what a woman is than anything that resembles reality. It's disheartening that 30 years on, video games are still mired in that adolescent male rut.

 

[Cool Welshy]

I think the real issue is that most games continue to be designed by hetero males for hetero males. So, video games are designed from a male point of view and tend to treat females as stereotypes -- passive, objectified and one-dimensional -- a prize to be obtained. Even when the "hero" is ostensibly a woman (think of Lara Croft) s/he is more a teenage boy's idea of what a woman is than anything that resembles reality. It's disheartening that 30 years on, video games are still mired in that adolescent male rut.

I absolutely agree. But maybe the roles will switch when there is more female gamers.

Actually, wasn't there a game where Mario gets kidnapped and Peach gets to save HIM? I heard it didn't do as well as the vice versa, but still.

 

[Sylocat]

Great article and I agree with a lot of it, but as someone who has worked with abuse victims in the past, it makes me a little uncomfortable to hear Cinderella get reprimanded for not running away... long-time abuse victims tend to internalize their abuse and become too scared to flee. It's not rational, but welcome to the real world.

Agree that Sleeping Beauty is a twit, though. Never before have I so strongly wanted a villain to win (though it helps that I just adore Maleficent in general, and was overjoyed she got picked as the "main" villain in Kingdom Hearts). Sleeping Beauty is so generic I couldn't even remember her name; when she was called "Aurora" in Kingdom Hearts, I went, "Wait, which one is that?"

Of course, in Disney movies, the princesses are still way better than the princes... I can't remember ANY of their names.

I really think the bigger question that more games need to be asking, throughout all of this, is where the hell are the King and Queen? It could make a very compelling story, the old war-hero King going all "Liam Neeson" to rescue his daughter (who happens to be the Princess)...

This was basically the plot of Final Fight, where Mike Haggar goes to rescue his daughter (granted, he was the mayor, not the king, but still).

Also, I'm fairly certain (and I think this might actually have been confirmed in one of the RPGs) that Peach is actually the sovereign ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom, her parents are gone. I assume the chancellor (whom we met in Legend of the Seven Stars) keeps things going when she gets kidnapped.

Zelda's situation varies with the iteration, but in most of her games, when she is kidnapped, her father is either incapacitated or imprisoned as well. No word on her mother.

 

[WorldCritic]

Peach holds a special place in my heart due to the fact that in Super Mario 2 and some of the RPGs she is one of the most useful characters, while in the main series she makes it her life's ambition to piss me off by always getting kidnapped and never once showing any signs of resisting. Come on you stupid *****! You have fought alongside Mario against cosmic threats and even had your own game, but you still can't put forth some effort to fight Bowser off when he tries to capture you?

 

[Light 086]

Well if she could save herself, then it wouldn't be much of a game for us now would it?

That certainly would make sense...

Um...play as the kidnapped princess breaking out of the castle, instead of the hero breaking in? Like The Great Escape only with more expensive clothes and probably a less awesome theme.

But there has to be a romance subplot, it's law because they said so. How would you end the story without 'they lived happily ever after'? I don't think the supposed hero would go for a girl who could emasculate him, do you?

On Topic: I agree, it has to do with the stereotyped gender roles. These stories were written far before women had rights.

Now the have female heroes, who save the prince, like In DA: Origins. Alistar can't tie his own shoes, you think he can rule a kingdom? One of the dlc's showed what happens if your character dies and he leads the wardens, the archdemon wins.

 

[p3t3r]

i wonder what this guy would think about adventure time

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I completely deny this article.

Like everyone else has said, he totally ignores sheik. Also, what about the fact that earlier in the game, she gave link the OoT and taught him the song of time. Not to mention the fact that during the end, she opened all those doors and then held Ganon AND THEN gave link some serious sword power. ALSO she gives him the light arrows. I win.

And then Midna. Well, Midna might as well have crushed this article under her feet with the small fact that she helped Link THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE FREAKING GAME. Zelda also helped some but, admittedly, not as much as she did OoT.

Peach is a whole different ballgame in the fact that nobody plays the Mario games for the story. It's all about the gameplay and Peach is just one open, fat, giant excuse for the players to have all this fun in all these weird levels. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[CrystalShadow]

There's a tendency to think this weakness stems from an outdated gender stereotype - that because these stories were written so long ago, they cast women in roles both passive and powerless. You only have to look at the wicked witches and the domineering stepmothers, however, to realize that this is not the case at all. These characters hold plenty of power, and they wield it with a calculating intellect. So princesses aren't weak because they're women; they're weak because they're princesses.

So...the good women are powerless princesses, but there's no gender stereotype because the evil women have power?

Um, might be missing a fairly obvious point there.

Well if she could save herself, then it wouldn't be much of a game for us now would it?

That certainly would make sense...

Um...play as the kidnapped princess breaking out of the castle, instead of the hero breaking in? Like The Great Escape only with more expensive clothes and probably a less awesome theme.

Reminds me of the plot-lines of Kings Quest 4 and 7. (well, 7 in particular)
(Ironically, King's quest 7 is the last real kings quest game they made, because king's quest 8 was really quite different, and not all that popular, I seem to recall)

In King's Quest 4, Princess Rosella (who you play as) has to find a way to cure her father. (So in a way that's the 'object' equivalent of 'save the princess' really. Huh.)

King's quest 7 is more interesting in that you alternate playing as princess Rosella, (who has been lured away and kidnapped by her own sense of curiosity), and her mother (Queen Valanice)

Valanice follows Rosella into the portal she was kidnapped through, and you start play as Valanice trying to figure out where she's ended up, and where Rosella is.

When you get out of the first area, you switch to playing as Rosella, as she figures out why she's now a troll, who took her, and how to escape to find the castle in the sky she was actually looking for.

The story alternates between these two perspectives, and it's ultimately Rosella sorting out the problems by herself, even as her mother tries to find her.

One thing's for sure, Princess Rosella is 'weak' only in a physical sense, and seems quite capable of sorting out her own problems (which are essentially self-inflicted anyway, considering how she got 'kidnapped' in the first place.)

 

[SanguineSymphony]

Paper Mario
Super Princess Peach
SMB 2
Super Mario RPG
Smash Bros.

Peach fighting back is an element in all of said games and probably others as well.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But there has to be a romance subplot, it's law because they said so. How would you end the story without 'they lived happily ever after'? I don't think the supposed hero would go for a girl who could emasculate him, do you?

Hmmm...ok, then, 2 princesses both escape from the same castle, and fall in love with each other? Preferably princesses from different royal families, I guess.

No, it's still based on an outdated gender stereotype. The stereotype is: women can be powerful and independent and therefore evil, or powerless and male-reliant and therefore virtuous.

Glad I'm not the only one who saw that.

 

[VondeVon]

I would posit that the reason all the princesses we rescue are weak and demure, is because all the feisty and strong ones have already rescued themselves.

 

[VondeVon]

Just to zero in on this:

There's a tendency to think this weakness stems from an outdated gender stereotype - that because these stories were written so long ago, they cast women in roles both passive and powerless. You only have to look at the wicked witches and the domineering stepmothers, however, to realize that this is not the case at all. These characters hold plenty of power, and they wield it with a calculating intellect. So princesses aren't weak because they're women; they're weak because they're princesses.

No, it's still based on an outdated gender stereotype. The stereotype is: women can be powerful and independent and therefore evil, or powerless and male-reliant and therefore virtuous.

Too true.

 

[LINCARD1000]

Once, just once I would like to rush in on my trusty stead/nucwear-wessel with gun/sword in hand to rescue a kidnapped PRINCE.

"Hey man, how YOU doin'? *leers* Join me on my mount? Heh, I said 'mount'."

*ahem* Just for a bit of diversity, y'know?

 

[Dastardly]

Great article and I agree with a lot of it, but as someone who has worked with abuse victims in the past, it makes me a little uncomfortable to hear Cinderella get reprimanded for not running away... long-time abuse victims tend to internalize their abuse and become too scared to flee. It's not rational, but welcome to the real world.

Working with similar situations from time to time, I certainly understand this real-life phenomenon that "outsiders" often see as baffling. But because I know how that works, I see more reason to go after Cinderella, not less.

Now, when I say "go after Cinderella," I obviously mean the author, or the current person using the story. I think the writer of this article probably means the same. Cinderella is a fictional character.

These sort of stories are idealized "happily ever after" tales. They're meant to show the world at its best in some way. Cinderella is meant to idealize the "good things happen to good people" idea... except it doesn't. Rather than having the story revolve around how Cinderella gradually finds the strength to leave, it's all about being rescued by magic, with no effort on her part. The message being delivered is, "Good things will happen, so just sit there and do nothing."

Cinderella's story glorifies the prince, more than anything. He is the one that rescues her. Even the all-powerful, magical fairy godmother just prepares Cinderella to go catch a prince.[/b] Once the party's done, she goes right back home. Until the prince, that is, comes searching for her.

It's a story written during a time when women were encouraged to be passive, wait for men to provide for them, and put up with whatever was happening until that time came. Surely you could see how continuing that story, unaltered, into today just isn't the best model for girls?

 

[jamesworkshop]

Oh please rescue the princess is the story line of maybe two game series, practically every videogame character (male or female) in existance is far more capable than humans have any physical capability to be.
It's only a trope because of the billions of mario games

 

[Mouse One]

Oh please rescue the princess is the story line of maybe two game series, practically every videogame character (male or female) in existance is far more capable than humans have any physical capability to be.
It's only a trope because of the billions of mario games

And about a billion other stories, from Brothers Grimm to Arthurian Legends to Greek myths. And hey, when you look at a story like Perseus and Andromeda, it's not bad when you think about women's (lack of) status at the time. Andromeda tells Dad to stuff it with his marriage plans, she'd rather marry the guy who saved her. On the other hand, she doesn't slip the chains and bonk the dragon on its nose, either. Still, not bad for 500 BC or so.

But now we live in more enlightened times, and these tropes are showing their age. And there's an increasingly larger female gamer population; not including casual games, it's about 40%. No, really, it is-- probably not on game forums, though. The saving princess motif has all the appeal to women that saving Rainbow Sparkle Pony has for men. Sure, good gameplay will make up for it, but it's still hard to relate to.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Oh please rescue the princess is the story line of maybe two game series, practically every videogame character (male or female) in existance is far more capable than humans have any physical capability to be.
It's only a trope because of the billions of mario games

And about a billion other stories, from Brothers Grimm to Arthurian Legends to Greek myths. And hey, when you look at a story like Perseus and Andromeda, it's not bad when you think about women's (lack of) status at the time. Andromeda tells Dad to stuff it with his marriage plans, she'd rather marry the guy who saved her. On the other hand, she doesn't slip the chains and bonk the dragon on its nose, either. Still, not bad for 500 BC or so.

But now we live in more enlightened times, and these tropes are showing their age. And there's an increasingly larger female gamer population; not including casual games, it's about 40%. No, really, it is-- probably not on game forums, though. The saving princess motif has all the appeal to women that saving Rainbow Sparkle Pony has for men. Sure, good gameplay will make up for it, but it's still hard to relate to.

I specifyed in gaming not the last few thousand years of storytelling

women in videogames are not largely helpless princess, most are derided as being men with tits
fact is that gaming has largely revolved around power fantasys and quest naratives leading most characters to be either conan/red sonya types (Other heroes that principly employ violence to solve problems)

Sarah kerrigan
Jill Valentine
Nina Williams
Ada Wong
Taki (Soulcalibur)
Talim
Tira (Soulcalibur)
Samus Aran
Rayne (BloodRayne)
Claire Redfield
Morrigan Aensland
Mileena (Mortal Kombat)
Lightning (Final Fantasy)
Lulu (Final Fantasy)
Kasumi (Dead or Alive)
Kitana (Mortal Kombat)
Ivy Valentine
Chun-Li
Cammy
Bayonetta (character)
Alyx Vance
Mona Sax
Sheva alomar
Lara Croft
Rubi malone
Cate Archer

 

[Mouse One]

I specifyed in gaming not the last few thousand years of storytelling

women in videogames are not largely helpless princess, most are derided as being men with tits
fact is that gaming has largely revolved around power fantasys and quest naratives leading most characters to be either conan/red sonya types (Other heroes that principly employ violence to solve problems)

Videogame narrative isn't inseparable from the thousands of years of story telling preceeding it. All those tropes and motifs weren't invented in the last 20 years. But your point about strong female characters in recent games is a good one. Game companies HAVE been responsive to changing cultural values, just as movies and other media have. That's not to say that they don't have a long way to go: for every Alyx Vance, there's far too many female side characters who seem to be there as nothing more than motivation for the main male lead, as the original article pointed out (and listed).

 

[tahrey]

I dunno ... the princess was never really the prize in the platform games I played when younger. Kinda just like a cliched prop. We were all about the enemy-killing...

And I can only really point to Lenna and Faris in FF5 ... some helpless princesses, they.

 

[IndianaJonny]

Um...play as the kidnapped princess breaking out of the castle, instead of the hero breaking in? Like The Great Escape only with more expensive clothes and probably a less awesome theme.

I think you might be onto something there, thaluikhain. We seem to forget that the majority of Princess(esque) tales (Snow White, Thumbelina, Cinderella, Rumplestiltskin etc.) follow the journey of the Princess (yes, I realise the article's use of Sleeping Beauty is not, however, the best example for this theory). Yet this journey, from what little I've seen, seems ignored as a plausible narrative in today's gaming. What I'd love to see is gaming's answer to Pan's Labyrinth; an engaging, alternative fairy-tale narrative from the girl/princess' perspective that has so, so, SO much to tell us about the monsters, magic and vulnerability of our own lives.

I have no expertise on your points in your comment here, Therumancer, I'm just impressed by the intelligence of your remarks and that you've not cut your points to cater for short-attention spans. Trust me, the savvy contribution you made to widening the debate here was appreciated - made me think, chum.

I would posit that the reason all the princesses we rescue are weak and demure, is because all the feisty and strong ones have already rescued themselves.

I did have to smile when I read this, thanks VondeVon.