BobDobolina said:
Wow, apparently it's Defensive Day today!
Baresark said:
I think this completely misses the idea. Mario, Zelda, and whatever other game has had this particular plot mechanism, uses this as an intro into gameplay that is usually excellent. . .
They don't use an "outdated gender stereotype" at all in most games. Any modern game that is about saving the princess in RPG terms, tends to have an a heroine present as strong as any villains.
Hmmmm... does the original KOTOR count as a modern game? ISTR being tasked with saving Bastila
twice in the course of that game; it's just as common for "heroic" women to be subverted back into damsel in distress roles.
At any rate, I wasn't saying anything about "most games," nor do I think the article was, so you can relax.
I hate when people try to define everything little thing such as this a negative gender stereotype, like it or not, people like this exist.
Could you please tell me in your own words what you think "stereotype" means? Because I have this feeling it doesn't mean what you think it means.
I can safely say this isn't a defensive thing. I just enjoy a good back and forth with someone who doesn't leave a single line response to an article.
1.) It's not a negative gender stereotype to help your friends. You might very well yell at my girlfriend for being weak and calling me when she got into her first car accident, didn't know what to do, and was crying hysterically. Like it or not, people in general will need your help. And on top of that, Bastilla was at no point presented as a weak gender stereotype. Did you have to save her? Yes. Was she a typical weak princess role who was incapable of doing anything on her own? No. KOTOR suffers from poor writing, I hate to tell you. There was no logical reason for her to be trapped when she was trapped, and it wasn't because she needed you to come and save her.
2.) A stereotype of any kind is built on a societal view based on sex, race, or any number of other factors. Yes, those are my words. But, they exist because there are people within a society that fit that. I'm Irish, but I don't spend my weekends getting wrecked. But, I do know people who do, both Irish and otherwise.
I see what you're doing, but I don't know why you think that every time something like this happens in a socially recognized medium it has to mean something earth shattering. You are engaging in one of my pet peeves, you're turning all women into victims of videogame chauvinism. Your argument is part of the problem, not part of the solution. If the woman in question is not the perfect representation of a strong woman (in your opinion), the medium is degrading women and engaging in negative stereotyping.
That being said, I didn't mean for my original post to come off as confrontational in any way. Nor do I intend this one too, I just have a strong opinion. I don't need to calm down my friend, I'm a mountain lake as far as being calm is concerned. And they were talking about the, "save the princess" plot point some games participate in. And you're the one who mentioned gender stereotypes, after a little blurb from the author. I'm just here to tell you, just because a game uses this plot device doesn't mean they are making a blanket statement about women as being either strong and villainous or weak and virtuous. I would even go as far as to say that you may have an issue with it, much more than any women in my life.
Edit: As a quick aside. Society defines a stereotype, is a false view. A society builds it's stereotypes around the people within it. That is why we see are seeing the opposite view come into prevailing light. Will it happen over night, no it won't. But people are not nearly as victimized as some like to think in this subject. No one is trapped in what people think of them, they only trap themselves.
