no, i get it. fun and art don't have to be exclusive. but most pretentious indie fans don't see this.Raiyan 1.0 said:
i keep trying to get "fun can be an art form in and of itself" pushed into people's heads, but people seem to want to argue that
299: The Bolshevik in the Borderlands
- Thread starter Jonas Kyratzes
- Start date
i keep trying to get "fun can be an art form in and of itself" pushed into people's heads, but people seem to want to argue that
My problem with Borderlands wasn't that it had a story. My problem was that they had a story that was trite and poorly executed alongside some of the worst hit-detection and mechanics I've seen in a long time. If you're going to have a story that forces me to listen to some random woman chirping in my ear all the time, then at least have the decency to make it good. Otherwise build your setting and leave it at that.
For God's sakes, find other ways to simulate RPG statistics in an FPS than "hits at random". Make the crosshair/cone wider the less skill I have in the weapon, and make it expand further at a faster rate. But if I can line a headshot up, then that bullet should hit the God damn head and not the rock five feet to the left.
Borderlands is a good game. But just because it's a lot of fun despite its flaws doesn't mean it is a great game. Good thesis, bad example.
For God's sakes, find other ways to simulate RPG statistics in an FPS than "hits at random". Make the crosshair/cone wider the less skill I have in the weapon, and make it expand further at a faster rate. But if I can line a headshot up, then that bullet should hit the God damn head and not the rock five feet to the left.
Borderlands is a good game. But just because it's a lot of fun despite its flaws doesn't mean it is a great game. Good thesis, bad example.
Borderlands already does this.ccesarano said:
Have you ever rolled a d20? Just saying.ccesarano said:
As for the article itself, the point for me where Borderlands went from being a good game to a great game was the second I walked up to Tannis in her jail cell and took the time to read the graffiti on the walls. That one room was the piece of storytelling that I had missed in playing the game that tied the entire game's narrative together in one neat little package. It's a really well-designed room, and whoever proposed it deserves a small raise.
And, yes, the scratchings do bear some slight resemblance to The Ratman's wall scratchings in Portal, but that doesn't make them any less appealing.
I stopped reading when he said he enjoyed borderlands. Although I very much dislike a lot of games, i.e. CoD, Assassin Creed 1&2 for some reason I like brotherhood though, not because of multiplayer, Homefront, many many others, but at least I can see the appeal of the affore mentioned games. Borderlands is just downright awful, it has no story, no niche gameplay element and the only gameplay it does have it "Go here, Shoot this," no variation, bad vehicle controls, terrible enviornments, terrible art style (though admittedly, someone else may love it, art is personal) A teribly scewed difficulty in that it's all as easy as wearing clothes, the items are placed so you never run out of ammo or grenades and if you have a friend who is as bored by it as you, he'll come on for 5mins and give you all his shit, unintuitive menus, character selection comes down to "Which one looks nicer" need I go on?
it is the worst game I've ever played and I've played elf bowling.
it is the worst game I've ever played and I've played elf bowling.
Good article. Definitely appreciated the self-deprecating intro, hehe.
You make a lot of excellent points, although personally I would not consider Borderlands a "mainstream" game. I think as compared to a lot of other shooters and RPGs, it's more on the fringe of mainstream.
The only thing that pissed me off about Blands really was their use of the crappy gamespy buddy system which made it more difficult than it needed to be to play with other people you liked. That and the endless tedious fetch-quests. Gather 500 of this item for no reason! Ok!
You make a lot of excellent points, although personally I would not consider Borderlands a "mainstream" game. I think as compared to a lot of other shooters and RPGs, it's more on the fringe of mainstream.
The only thing that pissed me off about Blands really was their use of the crappy gamespy buddy system which made it more difficult than it needed to be to play with other people you liked. That and the endless tedious fetch-quests. Gather 500 of this item for no reason! Ok!
The irritating thing is that a lot of the complaints about "mainstream games" is really code for "mainstream games I don't like". Take Dead Space, for instance. Innovative title, EA really threw their weight behind marketing it. And it was a wild success. And then those same gamers turn around and complain about the prevalence of CoD. Funny thing is, a lot of those same gamers love Battlefield, despite the fact that there are almost twice as may Battlefield games as CoD. In fact, CoD has to include their cheapjack cell phone games just to catch up to Battlefield's numbers.
Not that I'm saying anything against either series, mind you. Just pointing out the double standard. What's more, CoD is still wildly popular, which means the complainers seem to be vastly overestimating their number, and underestimating their own vocalness, if that's the word I want.
Not that I'm saying anything against either series, mind you. Just pointing out the double standard. What's more, CoD is still wildly popular, which means the complainers seem to be vastly overestimating their number, and underestimating their own vocalness, if that's the word I want.
I'm glad to see an indie dev coming out and saying "Hey guys, the mainstream games are actually still a lot of fun." These days, it's almost expected that indies have to shun all popular games, and only play a select choice of games off ModDB. It's not entirely unlike the music fans who "only like music no-one else has heard of"
On Borderlands, I thought it had some fantastic narrative design. The game had as much, or as little story as you wanted. Yes, you could go around and blast space bugs willy-nilly, but actually listening to the storyline allowed for as much involvement in the story as you liked.
On Borderlands, I thought it had some fantastic narrative design. The game had as much, or as little story as you wanted. Yes, you could go around and blast space bugs willy-nilly, but actually listening to the storyline allowed for as much involvement in the story as you liked.
For me I think that it depends on the developer. Some developers can make really amazing games if they don?t take themselves too seriously. But if they do, they end up suppressing the charm of previous titles. Look at R*. San Andreas was awesome, crazy, and very goofy. When I saw that gta4 was going to be a more serious game I just figured they were trying something new and I just hoped that it worked as well. It didn?t. They tried too hard to be grownups like some teenage girl throwing a ?dinner party? and it just came across as being pretentious. They need to just go with their strength and that?s making goofy games. Unfortunately they?re really sticking to the drama and it?s not getting better.
As the same time, I would hate to see Bioware try and make a goofy game. While R* comes off as pretentious, Bioware would probably come off as being sophomoric and stupid.
Devs just need to stick with their strengths: if they?re good at the nutty games, they should make nutty games/if they?re good a the serious games, they should stick to them. Sure there?s room for every kind of game but I don?t think there?s any one Dev who?s capable of making every kind... Well.
There?s a reason Robert Rankin doesn?t write romance novels.
As the same time, I would hate to see Bioware try and make a goofy game. While R* comes off as pretentious, Bioware would probably come off as being sophomoric and stupid.
Devs just need to stick with their strengths: if they?re good at the nutty games, they should make nutty games/if they?re good a the serious games, they should stick to them. Sure there?s room for every kind of game but I don?t think there?s any one Dev who?s capable of making every kind... Well.
There?s a reason Robert Rankin doesn?t write romance novels.
Boarderlands was in my eyes a very good game. The story portrayal is actually one that kind of requires the player to look.
I think that players just don't have the same qualities of interpreting environments around them. I agree, Pandora had more story then what the player sees if he/she just goes about the main detail of just completing quests. You are never told that the planet was once prosperous, there was an environment teaming with life once on that planet, or what caused the instability which sent civilization to the shit hole.
But there is also some obvious humor points as well, Tannis going insane, and a personal win with me when I found Ludicrous Speedway (best Space Balls reference ever.)
I think that players just don't have the same qualities of interpreting environments around them. I agree, Pandora had more story then what the player sees if he/she just goes about the main detail of just completing quests. You are never told that the planet was once prosperous, there was an environment teaming with life once on that planet, or what caused the instability which sent civilization to the shit hole.
But there is also some obvious humor points as well, Tannis going insane, and a personal win with me when I found Ludicrous Speedway (best Space Balls reference ever.)
The way the author tries to make it seem like saying that great games exist is such a radical comment seems almost like a backhanded compliment to the industry rather than any sincere respect.
EXACTLY!
This is EXACTLY how I feel about borderlands, and what I have been trying to tell people!
This is EXACTLY how I feel about borderlands, and what I have been trying to tell people!
I love Borderlands and the characters made it even more enjoyable. Tannis is hilarious with all her insane ramblings and Scooter was actually pretty funny too at times.
I try and tell people how awesome this game is, unfortunately the people I know are not that much of a fan for this type of game, yeah I know you have to search for the good stuff, but it's totally worth it.
I try and tell people how awesome this game is, unfortunately the people I know are not that much of a fan for this type of game, yeah I know you have to search for the good stuff, but it's totally worth it.
Through out this entire article I couldn't help but picture a near future where I walk into a game store and have a cashier in skinny jeans and a bad hair cut scoff at me because I'm buying the latest copy of "killin stuff" because it's just corporate drivel. Then he tells me he could tell me what kind of games he plays but I wouldn't have heard of them. Having gone through this more than once at the record store it made me giggle.
Great article, totally agree.
I'm trying to stem my fanatical vices, such as those displayed by LiftYourSkinnyFists:
Just read that "Dark Messiah had awesome combat and the people who made Dark Messiah are DIRECTLY involved in the development of TES V"
Zenimax acquires DMoMM developers Arkane:
http://arkane-studios.com/uk/home.php
Excellent
I'm trying to stem my fanatical vices, such as those displayed by LiftYourSkinnyFists:
I loved Dark Messiah of Might and Magic!LiftYourSkinnyFists said:
Just read that "Dark Messiah had awesome combat and the people who made Dark Messiah are DIRECTLY involved in the development of TES V"
Zenimax acquires DMoMM developers Arkane:
http://arkane-studios.com/uk/home.php
Excellent