3DS is Watching You: Activity-Logging and Anti-Piracy Features

[Lunar Templar]

*reads all 11 pages* wow, that was a waste of
time ... paranoid lot aren't you

i highly doubt its gonna be as bad as people are thinking, people are again, freaking out and over reacting, (like they do on FOX 'news')without seeing it in practice/getting they're hands on it,
fun fact i picked up:: things don't always work out as bad is it sound at first

Yes, I am going to see benefit from my participation. In Nintendo and other companies releasing more games I enjoy. I don't care how fast a game's price drops. I care about them using that information to release more games that I will actually want to play.

Which you will buy and they will make more money, see why this market research is so valuable?

the down side is?
If a company uses marketing info to make a product that, according to said info, is highly desirable then they will not only make money, but have the side effect of a pleased costumer base, which will in-turn result in said costumers returning for other products

*gasp* not that, heaven forbid a company make money from a product made to please they're costumers -.-

The down side is a compromise of privacy and consumer rights. I don't want to be spied on to improve Nintendos bottom line and I am not so addicted to video games that I would give up anything to help them keep them coming.

It's amazing that so many people are willing to pay to be monitored.

news flash
YOUR BEING MONITORED NOW, and will be when you go online with what ever system you own, an ya paid for that, get over it -.-

Really? What systems keep a log of my activities and send it to a corporation to see if I am a pirate?

none i can think of off hand, and since I'm not a pirate, I'm not inclined to look it up, fun part about not being a criminal crap like this doesn't bother me, though watching people who do have reason to be worried amuses me > greatly amuses me

So you're basically talking out of your ass then?

apart from the part where it doesn't bother me and it's not gonna effect where or not i get a 3DS

pretty much flipping him shit, since he's being so vocal about it.
but really, people are forgetting, the reason this monitoring system exists is due to the rampant piracy. people can complain about all they want, but since no one is/can doing anything to actually fix it, suck it up and deal with it, don't like it, don't buy it, period since these kinda things aren't going away, and will more then like get worse before they get better

Piracy is the scapegoat. If Nintendo could have controlled how you play the NES, they would have.

scapegoat or not, you fail to see it is a real problem, and act like this is new, face book has issues with spying, seems like every other week, god knows what Google has on us, pretty much what ever 'privacy' you think you're losing, was already lost some where else, and you know it

and they did try, remember the game genie? they lost then cause there's nothing illegal about a cheat device (mildly ironic if you think about it XD)

So....because Google might know what websites you go to, you may as well let Nintendo spy on you too? Nice logic, go for it if you like.

Indeed, you know about the Nintendo vs Galoob case, that is why I said that Nintendo would have done this 25 years ago if they could have. Back then though, they would have needed a different scapegoat, software piracy wasn't a hot topic in the late 80's.

As I have mentioned, when designing the DSi Nintendo took steps to prevent certain cards that work in th DS from working on the DSi, one of the cards was the Action Replay. Now, with the ability to really prevent use of the AR on the 3DS, you know they will. No AR on the Wii because of the updates that would wipe out the functionality. Ya know how you can play Gamecube games on the Wii? Your Gamecube AR won't work on the Wii. So, as you pointed out, cheat devices are perfectly legal but Nintendo will use the internet (and their scapegoat) to block legal activities.

This isn't about Nintendo fighting piracy, this is about Nintendo taking control over YOUR hardware and stopping anything THEY don't approve of. They are also blocking out imported games with region coding and BIG BROTHER to ensure you don't go around the region coding. Pretty sure importing games is legal too.

it is, i don't though, only read English, typing it is dodgy at times though, and yeah, saw the DSi post earlier, that was pretty shitty of them, but then the i saw the DSi as a gimmicky DS branch off.

but far as this 'spying thing' goes I'm gonna wait an see how it pans out, not gonna be-able to afford one for a long while anyway, over 2K in bills that need dealing with more then Nintendo's newest 'experiment', course, there's always the chance this will be another dud like the virtual boy

 

[Lunar Templar]

*reads all 11 pages* wow, that was a waste of
time ... paranoid lot aren't you

i highly doubt its gonna be as bad as people are thinking, people are again, freaking out and over reacting, (like they do on FOX 'news')without seeing it in practice/getting they're hands on it,
fun fact i picked up:: things don't always work out as bad is it sound at first

Yes, I am going to see benefit from my participation. In Nintendo and other companies releasing more games I enjoy. I don't care how fast a game's price drops. I care about them using that information to release more games that I will actually want to play.

Which you will buy and they will make more money, see why this market research is so valuable?

the down side is?
If a company uses marketing info to make a product that, according to said info, is highly desirable then they will not only make money, but have the side effect of a pleased costumer base, which will in-turn result in said costumers returning for other products

*gasp* not that, heaven forbid a company make money from a product made to please they're costumers -.-

The down side is a compromise of privacy and consumer rights. I don't want to be spied on to improve Nintendos bottom line and I am not so addicted to video games that I would give up anything to help them keep them coming.

It's amazing that so many people are willing to pay to be monitored.

news flash
YOUR BEING MONITORED NOW, and will be when you go online with what ever system you own, an ya paid for that, get over it -.-

Really? What systems keep a log of my activities and send it to a corporation to see if I am a pirate?

none i can think of off hand, and since I'm not a pirate, I'm not inclined to look it up, fun part about not being a criminal crap like this doesn't bother me, though watching people who do have reason to be worried amuses me > greatly amuses me

So you're basically talking out of your ass then?

apart from the part where it doesn't bother me and it's not gonna effect where or not i get a 3DS

pretty much flipping him shit, since he's being so vocal about it.
but really, people are forgetting, the reason this monitoring system exists is due to the rampant piracy. people can complain about all they want, but since no one is/can doing anything to actually fix it, suck it up and deal with it, don't like it, don't buy it, period since these kinda things aren't going away, and will more then like get worse before they get better

Piracy is the scapegoat. If Nintendo could have controlled how you play the NES, they would have.

scapegoat or not, you fail to see it is a real problem, and act like this is new, face book has issues with spying, seems like every other week, god knows what Google has on us, pretty much what ever 'privacy' you think you're losing, was already lost some where else, and you know it

and they did try, remember the game genie? they lost then cause there's nothing illegal about a cheat device (mildly ironic if you think about it XD)

So....because Google might know what websites you go to, you may as well let Nintendo spy on you too? Nice logic, go for it if you like.

Indeed, you know about the Nintendo vs Galoob case, that is why I said that Nintendo would have done this 25 years ago if they could have. Back then though, they would have needed a different scapegoat, software piracy wasn't a hot topic in the late 80's.

As I have mentioned, when designing the DSi Nintendo took steps to prevent certain cards that work in th DS from working on the DSi, one of the cards was the Action Replay. Now, with the ability to really prevent use of the AR on the 3DS, you know they will. No AR on the Wii because of the updates that would wipe out the functionality. Ya know how you can play Gamecube games on the Wii? Your Gamecube AR won't work on the Wii. So, as you pointed out, cheat devices are perfectly legal but Nintendo will use the internet (and their scapegoat) to block legal activities.

This isn't about Nintendo fighting piracy, this is about Nintendo taking control over YOUR hardware and stopping anything THEY don't approve of. They are also blocking out imported games with region coding and BIG BROTHER to ensure you don't go around the region coding. Pretty sure importing games is legal too.

it is, i don't though, only read English, typing it is dodgy at times though, and yeah, saw the DSi post earlier, that was pretty shitty of them, but then the i saw the DSi as a gimmicky DS branch off.

but far as this 'spying thing' goes I'm gonna wait an see how it pans out, not gonna be-able to afford one for a long while anyway, over 2K in bills that need dealing with more then Nintendo's newest 'experiment', course, there's always the chance this will be another dud like the virtual boy

Yeah we'll see how it all plays out when it's released. For now, all we can do is speculate on what we've been told. We can't hold it in our hands to see how easy, hard or impossible it will be to disable the wi-fi and the logs.

true, and while your concerns are valid, just seem like its to soon to get the pitch forks and torches, but i also like wait and see how things turn out first, then condemn if its called for, kinda like Sonys over reaction to the modders, that makes me question why i have a PS3

 

[Lunar Templar]

Yeah, some companies go too far. Guess we'll see if Nintendo is one of them.

hope not Nintendo has been good to me over the 25 years or so I've been gaming

 

[Illyasviel]

Your right that having a secured wireless connection hurts your case, even though very few wireless connections are actully secure.. wep is basically a joke and anyone that wants to leach off a secured network needs only to dl a program called Cain and able and bam you have access.( my friends whom are script kiddies if even accomplish this with ease.) The courts of course would never recognize that reality though to having a secured connection kind of fucks you weather of not you are guilty or not.( I imagine most are guilty)


ps if that op gets the on fire award i think he owes both of us a thank you note dont you agree.

I'd appreciate it if you could point me out to some sources or provide some statements from your lawyer relative about the RIAA's varying shenanigans.

I'm not some kind of digital rights crusader or activist, but I do try to keep on top of it. In this situation, I side with the gaming industry.

Unfortunately, this thread is a writhing mass of fearmongering and hysteria, and might not be the best place.

 

[Fawcks]

I'm curious...

Why is everyone worried about nintendo "Spying" on them?

1) Number of steps is entirely useless, as it doesn't convey location.

2) You play games on the DS. That's about it. What are you so worried about Nintendo being able to see? Steam logs the games I play on it for EVERYONE to see.

3) Your real name is not in any way tied to your console. They don't know it's YOU. They don't know who YOU are. They just know console numbers.

 

[godfist88]

I figured someone might come up with something like this, i just didn't think it come so soon. well actually my theory was to have a counsel that was self aware (kinda) so it knows what's being done to it. and fix itself accordingly, sort of like a cyber immune system. then again thats kinda scary when you think about it.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Yeah, some companies go too far. Guess we'll see if Nintendo is one of them.

hope not Nintendo has been good to me over the 25 years or so I've been gaming

I can't say I have been happy with them this gen. Console has been out over 4 years and we have yet to see a Zelda game that is not ported.Yeah, it's coming but apparently been put on the back burner so they could concentrate on the 3DS. They have not used the Wiimote wisely, putting in shaking just for the sake of utilizing it. Like NSMBW, if memory serves don't you have to shake the controller to do a spin attack? Mario was doing a spin attack on the SNES in 1991, with a button press. The Wiimote turned sideways is really just an NES controller yet they choose that in situations where classic controller support would be better. Why wouldn't they include the classic controller support for a game like Metroid: Other M, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Kirby's Epic Yarn?

They sacrifice the best game control because they wanted to use the Wiimote instead. I don't know anyone who prefers the NES controller (Wiimote sideways) to the SNES controller (classic controller).

true, Other M would a been better with the classic 'troller', but Other M had ... other issues :/ ( game play was fine for me, but don't like what they did to Samus) but my intereations with Nintendo have been on the DS and GBA mostly, my DS see more time by far then the consuls XD

 

[IvoryTowerGamer]

Considering the Kinect records you when you have it set up this isn't nearly as bad.

Nintendo can see how many steps (or lack-of) I take for all I care.

The 3DS lacks a USB cable to unplug.

It has a switch to turn the wireless. I suppose you could claim that the switch might not actually turn off anything, but that seems like it would open up Nintendo to a number of lawsuits (IE if a 3DS caused something to go wrong in a place where wireless is forbidden, like a plane or hospital).

*reads all 11 pages* wow, that was a waste of time ... paranoid lot aren't you

i highly doubt its gonna be as bad as people are thinking, people are again, freaking out and over reacting, (like they do on FOX 'news')without seeing it in practice/getting they're hands on it,
fun fact i picked up:: things don't always work out as bad is it sound at first

Yes, I am going to see benefit from my participation. In Nintendo and other companies releasing more games I enjoy. I don't care how fast a game's price drops. I care about them using that information to release more games that I will actually want to play.

Which you will buy and they will make more money, see why this market research is so valuable?

the down side is?
If a company uses marketing info to make a product that, according to said info, is highly desirable then they will not only make money, but have the side effect of a pleased costumer base, which will in-turn result in said costumers returning for other products

*gasp* not that, heaven forbid a company make money from a product made to please they're costumers -.-

The down side is a compromise of privacy and consumer rights. I don't want to be spied on to improve Nintendos bottom line and I am not so addicted to video games that I would give up anything to help them keep them coming.

It's amazing that so many people are willing to pay to be monitored.

news flash
YOUR BEING MONITORED NOW, and will be when you go online with what ever system you own, an ya paid for that, get over it -.-

Really? What systems keep a log of my activities and send it to a corporation to see if I am a pirate?

None, not even the 3DS does this. Read the OP again. The possibility that something might happen is not the same as happening.

Also, for the record, all current gen systems keep logs of what you do in the game. Some disguise this as "achievements", but developers still use that information.

Indeed, I never thought about Achievements like that and you can't turn them off can you? Thanks for bringing that up.

About the 3DS, do tell me where I'm wrong. Do tell me why used retailers in Japan seem to think this is worth making an issue out of too. Perhaps they misunderstood too?

Personally I haven't heard about the retailers thing in Japan, but frankly it wouldn't surprise me. They have the same policy for Xboxes, Wiis, etc. I guess those systems are all dangerously intrusive to your privacy as well.

*reads all 11 pages* wow, that was a waste of
time ... paranoid lot aren't you

i highly doubt its gonna be as bad as people are thinking, people are again, freaking out and over reacting, (like they do on FOX 'news')without seeing it in practice/getting they're hands on it,
fun fact i picked up:: things don't always work out as bad is it sound at first

Yes, I am going to see benefit from my participation. In Nintendo and other companies releasing more games I enjoy. I don't care how fast a game's price drops. I care about them using that information to release more games that I will actually want to play.

Which you will buy and they will make more money, see why this market research is so valuable?

the down side is?
If a company uses marketing info to make a product that, according to said info, is highly desirable then they will not only make money, but have the side effect of a pleased costumer base, which will in-turn result in said costumers returning for other products

*gasp* not that, heaven forbid a company make money from a product made to please they're costumers -.-

The down side is a compromise of privacy and consumer rights. I don't want to be spied on to improve Nintendos bottom line and I am not so addicted to video games that I would give up anything to help them keep them coming.

It's amazing that so many people are willing to pay to be monitored.

news flash
YOUR BEING MONITORED NOW, and will be when you go online with what ever system you own, an ya paid for that, get over it -.-

Really? What systems keep a log of my activities and send it to a corporation to see if I am a pirate?

none i can think of off hand, and since I'm not a pirate, I'm not inclined to look it up, fun part about not being a criminal crap like this doesn't bother me, though watching people who do have reason to be worried amuses me > greatly amuses me

So you're basically talking out of your ass then?

apart from the part where it doesn't bother me and it's not gonna effect where or not i get a 3DS

pretty much flipping him shit, since he's being so vocal about it.
but really, people are forgetting, the reason this monitoring system exists is due to the rampant piracy. people can complain about all they want, but since no one is/can doing anything to actually fix it, suck it up and deal with it, don't like it, don't buy it, period since these kinda things aren't going away, and will more then like get worse before they get better

Piracy is the scapegoat. If Nintendo could have controlled how you play the NES, they would have.

scapegoat or not, you fail to see it is a real problem, and act like this is new, face book has issues with spying, seems like every other week, god knows what Google has on us, pretty much what ever 'privacy' you think you're losing, was already lost some where else, and you know it

and they did try, remember the game genie? they lost then cause there's nothing illegal about a cheat device (mildly ironic if you think about it XD)

So....because Google might know what websites you go to, you may as well let Nintendo spy on you too? Nice logic, go for it if you like.

Indeed, you know about the Nintendo vs Galoob case, that is why I said that Nintendo would have done this 25 years ago if they could have. Back then though, they would have needed a different scapegoat, software piracy wasn't a hot topic in the late 80's.

As I have mentioned, when designing the DSi Nintendo took steps to prevent certain cards that work in th DS from working on the DSi, one of the cards was the Action Replay. Now, with the ability to really prevent use of the AR on the 3DS, you know they will. No AR on the Wii because of the updates that would wipe out the functionality. Ya know how you can play Gamecube games on the Wii? Your Gamecube AR won't work on the Wii. So, as you pointed out, cheat devices are perfectly legal but Nintendo will use the internet (and their scapegoat) to block legal activities.

This isn't about Nintendo fighting piracy, this is about Nintendo taking control over YOUR hardware and stopping anything THEY don't approve of. They are also blocking out imported games with region coding and BIG BROTHER to ensure you don't go around the region coding. Pretty sure importing games is legal too.

it is, i don't though, only read English, typing it is dodgy at times though, and yeah, saw the DSi post earlier, that was pretty shitty of them, but then the i saw the DSi as a gimmicky DS branch off.

but far as this 'spying thing' goes I'm gonna wait an see how it pans out, not gonna be-able to afford one for a long while anyway, over 2K in bills that need dealing with more then Nintendo's newest 'experiment', course, there's always the chance this will be another dud like the virtual boy

Yeah we'll see how it all plays out when it's released. For now, all we can do is speculate on what we've been told. We can't hold it in our hands to see how easy, hard or impossible it will be to disable the wi-fi and the logs.

Actually, we don't have to speculate because I'm holding a 3DS in my hands right now.

Disabling the wi-fi is as simple as flipping a switch. You can't disable the logs, but you also couldn't disable them on the Wii (remember, the Wii logged your game time as well, not really anything new here).

The 3DS does NOT seem to automatically connect to any unsecured wireless point. It didn't connect to my neighbor's, and it didn't connect to mine when I turned the security off. I still had to go through the "internet set up" wizard to get updates.

It also does not seem to automatically download updates. Users will automatically get a notice that there is an update, but at least so far I've had to manually download the updates myself. I suppose there could be something going on in the background that I'm not aware of, but when I downloaded the update there was a EULA along with it, so my guess is that Nintendo's lawyers nixxed the 3DS' auto-update feature for legal reasons.

Now, the 3DS will automatically connect to Nintendo-approved hotspots (that's where I originally got the notice that there was an update), however, I haven't tested if it does this even when the wireless switch is off. Again, my guess would be no for legal reasons.

 

[IvoryTowerGamer]

So the logs can't be deleted and they can't be stopped and it will automatically connect to some wi-fi hot spots if the switch is on? Is this switch on the outside where it can be flipped accidentally?

The logs can't be deleted just like the Wii ones. This is because like the Wii logs they are supposedly there for parents to track gameplay time.

The switch is on the outside, but I think it would be pretty hard to accidentally switch it on. It's not a traditional on/off switch: you have to flip it, hold it there for a sec, and let go. I actually have had some trouble turning it on on purpose because I do it too fast.

Also, I am curious and you probably don't know but do the logs keep a record of games played off of an R4 card and does it track the use of an imported card or even a cheat device?

It does log imported cards, but you can only play them if they are region free anyway. As for other software, I've done some homebrew on my old DS, but I'm hesitant to try it on my 3DS until we know more about the logs. My guess is that if the Wii log would log unofficial games then this would too.

Incidentally, I think Nintendo is well within their rights to use the above features to prevent pirated software, assuming they don't brick people's systems and that they provide a privacy statement about any information they collect. Like I mentioned earlier, all the current gen systems do this in one way or another, so I don't see why the 3DS is being singled out here.

Anyway, if you have any other questions I'll be happy to answer them.