3DS is Watching You: Activity-Logging and Anti-Piracy Features

[Juventus]

Am I?

You can't deny that the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing isn't a tactic.

Like I said, the harder you push them, the harder they push you back. If you're entirely unwilling to compromise with them at all, than obviously, its bad for relations between the two of you and casts suspicions. You can't shake no hands with a clenched fist.

so going by this logic, if you don't want the government to spy on you, does that make you a terrorist? i mean if you don't like it, then you can always move.

 

[Illyasviel]

No, I will say what I wish to say and how I wish to say it within the rules of this forum. In fact, gamer understanding is why game companies keep crossing the line. It's time to say ENOUGH, IMO.

Why is it more productive to "understand" anti-consumerism?

Well then.

Next time I need to broker a peace agreement I know who not to ask.

so going by this logic, if you don't want the government to spy on you, does that make you a terrorist? i mean if you don't like it, then you can always move.

Nope.

 

[DarthFennec]

No, logging every single thing you do, that's unacceptable. I really wanted a 3DS but this ruined it for me -.-

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

so going by this logic, if you don't want the government to spy on you, does that make you a terrorist?

In many countries it will at least get you listed as a dissident or put on a watchlist.

 

[Illyasviel]

dude your arguing with a troll and he is of course winning stop

Since when was taking a centralist path considered trolling? I thought I was on "The Escapist," not "kill all democrats / republicans." I guess I'm just a natural.

hint: the problem he has without is not that you have an opinion its that when you disagree you accuse him of a crime when he disagrees with you, you have achieved the not so difficult task of being both a hypocrite and an asshole at the same time. Have a cookie

I didn't accuse him of anything. I just said, in a roundabout way, if you are so completely against having any kind of compromise at all, it just makes you look like you have an ulterior motive.

Just think. Why have things become so bad? Because both sides kept pushing harder and harder and harder because nobody was willing to meet in the middle at all. Everything that the gaming industry tries to do about piracy is failing. Even general consumers are apathetic, all the time, revenue is lost. So they try more extreme measures. Its a vicious cycle that consumers perpetuate as equally as business.

 

[silver wolf009]

Kind of creepy... 1984, copyright Nintendo I guess...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Kind of creepy... 1984, copyright Nintendo I guess...

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine an Italian plumber stamping on a human face?forever."

 

[Kagim]

so going by this logic, if you don't want the government to spy on you, does that make you a terrorist? i mean if you don't like it, then you can always move.

Extremes are fun aren't they?

When we are talking about police installing cameras in your house whether you like it or not we'll get back to you.

Until then, remember, this is a thread about a handheld video game system. Something you can live your life without. I know, crazy right?

If you don't like it you can choose not to buy it. Your making the choose not to spend a couple hundred dollars or buy a system that lets a computer know you play metriod a bit to much. Not the choice to pack up your shit and immigrate to an entirely different country or live with a camera staring at your junk 24 hours a day.

Nintendo is not coming to your house, stealing 250 dollars and forcing you to play a 3DS. Forcing you to have it on and transmitting webcam videos of you in the shower.

It's a video game system. That will only track what games you play and for how long. IF you don't like this, don't buy it. You ALWAYS have that choose.

Christ...

 

[PixiePrincess]

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
-- Martin Niemöller

 

[Sulgoth]

I give it two weeks tops before someone breaks this new measure, earlier if the hackers actually talk to each other once in a while.

 

[Illyasviel]

I flat out ask you if you were accusing me of being a pirate and you said:

Am I?

You can't deny that its true.

Sounds like an affirmative to me.

Anyway, paying customers like most of us here on escapist are not PUSHING Nintendo, we are paying them.

So you believe that pirates push Nintendo, fine but then why are you ok with Nintendo pushing back at paying customers?

Where I come from, line breaks generally indicate a new idea. Maybe this concept isn't as universal as I thought it was.

Yes, I am. According to D&D, I am lawful good. Furthermore, to take a line from Full Metal Alchemist, I believe in the law of conservation. Wait, is that from FMA? I don't know, I only watched like three episodes. I think that's just from chemistry or physics or something. Anyway, and most importantly, I swear I didn't take any of those ideas from their respective trademark holders ( I've never even played D&D ). I'm just using abstractions that people may be more familiar with rather than trying to explain my stances.

Odd that lawful good is an extreme when I am a self-proclaimed centralist by nature right?

So yes, I am. A great hacker once said freedom and security are polar opposites. Every time you gain security, you sacrifice freedom. This is the law of conservation. And the 3DS that I will probably never own, and the PS3 which I do own, is one area where I am willing to sacrifice some of my freedoms for increased security. Deal with it.

Business and consumers have equal right and equal expectation to protection.

 

[Juventus]

Extremes are fun aren't they?

When we are talking about police installing cameras in your house whether you like it or not we'll get back to you.

Until then, remember, this is a thread about a handheld video game system. Something you can live your life without. I know, crazy right?

If you don't like it you can choose not to buy it. Your making the choose not to spend a couple hundred dollars or buy a system that lets a computer know you play metriod a bit to much. Not the choice to pack up your shit and immigrate to an entirely different country or live with a camera staring at your junk 24 hours a day.

Nintendo is not coming to your house, stealing 250 dollars and forcing you to play a 3DS. Forcing you to have it on and transmitting webcam videos of you in the shower.

It's a video game system. That will only track what games you play and for how long. IF you don't like this, don't buy it. You ALWAYS have that choose.

Christ...

i don't care about the 3ds, and i'm not buying it. i was only responding to the guy who said that people who oare not buying because of the measures, must be pirates.

strong reading comprehension on your part, friend.

also, no you don't always have choice. governments are already monitoring you in different ways. some of these measures are for the best ,some for the worst. but you don't have choice, only the illusion of choice.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Doesn't really affect me in a meaningful way, so I don't give a damn.

Still buying one.

 

[Kagim]

That you can live without something doesn't make it ok for that device to spy on you.

If someone i don't know is watching me. Or a program that i do not know about is logging information is doing so. That is spying.

If my wife is looking at me or a program I am aware of and know full well off its functions before acquiring said product logs information. That is not spying.

Do you allow spyware to run on your computer?

If i am aware of what a program is doing, it's not spyware. Its a program i have willfully loaded onto my computer knowing what it does. Spyware would be a program that i had no intetion of installing that did so anyway, or a program that i was mislead to bielvie did one thing but actually did the other, the spying in this case.

This would be spyware if Nintendo booted it up without a) telling people and/or b) after said product was released. They have done neither. So it's not spyware.

Why do people always say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" as if to say "don't talk about it". This is a discussion board so we are going to talk about things...crazy huh.

This is in fact a message board. And that's MY opinion. It's almost as if... I'm expressing my ideas on said forum. Almost.. talking about things. I'm not telling you to not talk about it, I'm stating my opinion. If you don't like it maybe you should only reply to people who agree with you.

Now, if your mad about the person in specific I quoted, it's because i thought what he said was a gross exaggeration, and a stupid one at that.

If your mad about what i have to say and don't like it, then you probably shouldn't reply to me, because i have read what you have to say and i don't agree with you. I believe in the consumers rights and power to make rational decisions with there capital. I don't believe companies should be kept in a fence of ideals. Especially in a non necessity such as this.

Also, not buying something does send a message but if don't let them know why you refuse to buy it then the problem may not get solved in the next model.

Your not doing anything posting here either. Nintendo isn't reading this forum. Don't buy it, don't emulate it, shoot Nintendo an e-mail.

That Nintendo isn't coming to your house to steal $250 and all the rest of that statement doesn't make spying on you and threatening to brick your property, ok.

If you don't think it's okay you don't have to buy it. Its a simply concept. Once again, if you don't like it e-mail them, contact them and don't support the product. My fellow consumers seem to give up this right on a constant basis. We have an incredible power, the power of cash flow and customer contact numbers. Yet people waste it on forums. You want to talk about this? Sure, that's fine.

However, suffer no delusions. Your statements here will not reach Nintendo. You need to take the step and contact Nintendo.

You know what made Blizzard change it's mind about real ID? The two 1000+ page threads on its actual forums. The people canceling there subscriptions. Nothing else.

Money and voicing your opinion to the company itself. That makes change, and so many people can't figure that out.

It tracks more than just what games you play and how long. It can track your location and how many steps it took and it investigates what you do play to determine if you are a pirate. You wouldn't mind wearing an electronic leg bracelet would you?

The article states it logs steps taken. Does not say whether it was sent. Does not state whether it tracks location. Your now operating on assumption. Even if it did, it's my right as a consumer to make the choice whether or not i want a product that does that. If nintendo had hid this information and no one knew about it till after the release, or if they implemtned the idea after the release of said product you might have something.

You don't, however. Since once again, neither criteria is met.

If you don't like what i think, you don't have to listen to me. You have that right as well.

i don't care about the 3ds, and I'm not buying it. i was only responding to the guy who said that people who are not buying because of the measures, must be pirates.

You were comparing his statement to fighting agaisnt government oppression. Your exaggerating a statement to force your bias and using a specific situation to try and enforce your ideal.

Much like people who try and comapre downlaoding to rape to inspire a negative reaction.

Or people who compare downloading to the black rights movement to try and inspire a positive reaction.

Your taking his statement and likening it to a known extreme to try and tell him he is wrong.

strong reading comprehension on your part, friend.

Seeing as how i can tell when people say specific things to try and reinforce a negative reaction, much like your comparison, I would have to say i do have strong reading comprehension.

also, no you don't always have choice. governments are all ready monitring you in difffent ways. some of these measures are for the best ,some for the worst. but you don't have choice, only the illusion of choice.

You remind me of the people who come into my McDonalds and spend ten minutes telling me that the chip in there debit card is a Goverment tracking device. Luckily they found the goverment tracking devices only weakenss...

A magic marker...

However, until the day the government bogeyman forces me to buy a 3DS that little paragraph has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Or anything i said really...

 

[thedeathscythe]

If I buy a car, and I take the governor off so I can use it to it's potential and not what the manufacturer places on me, and then the computer in the cars engine figures it out and all of a sudden makes my car completely unusable, you can be sure as shit that I would be mad, and for good reason. I bought the car, it's mine, and I can use it however I want. R4 carts, though they can allow piracy, can also be used for homebrew, cheating, and a bunch of other cool things (watching movies, listening to music, things impossible normally). They can't just render the item that I bought with my money and now own, completely useless because I'm running a flash cart. They assume it's for piracy, but they force you to update, and if that bricks your 3DS, then that is complete and utter garbage. I'm not interested in a flash cart or anything for my 3DS when I get one, but I do stand behind that the customer is free to do whatever he or she wants with their item once they purchase it.

 

[GenericAmerican]

I think it's a step too far. But it doesn't concern me because I will not fall into the trap that is re buying the DS every time they add another millimeter of screen size, or a camera.

I know people who own every single model...they are freaking sheep; I own the very first bulky model...you know what, it works fine; sure the sound isn't great but hey, I don't use it anyway.

 

[Illyasviel]

no you see to many on this website tiny things like consumer right and freedom are taking a back seat to fighting piracy, a ultimately pointless and useless fight that of course will be lost.

Homicide will never be stopped either.

Try viewing this from a larger perspective. Make a flow chart or something that doesn't automatically end with loss of freedom.

Here are some possible endgames, any combination of which may occur.

Nearly all gaming publishers are publicly held corporations. Shareholders see drop in revenue, some of which is from privacy, push publishers to toughen up. Publishers can't disobey their shareholders.

Publishers then hire RIAA consultant; sues everybody.

Even more draconic anti-piracy measures emerge.

Publishers turn to safer franchises to ensure revenue. Gaming innovation dies, becomes equivalent to mainstream pop / hip-pop.

Keep in mind, that unlike music, gaming is no longer a grass roots industry. Anybody can sing a song. Not everybody can front USD30M for a triple A game.

I don't like what Nintendo is doing either. However, I'm praying it works and we'll see the end to this. And if it doesn't? Well, thanks a lot pirates, bleeding hearts. You've fucked us all again.

Are you calling me a pirate?

Am I?

The pirate playbook. Chapter 4, verse 2.

Tell them "I'm a defender, no, CHAMPION, of the people, and I'm here to protect your rights." Secretly profit by stirring up enough trouble to maintain status quo so that you may continue to pirate games.

You can't deny that the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing isn't a tactic.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

You CAN turn off the auto-connect wifi.

Oh goody. That's good.

And actually, I'm a reformed pirate. I used to download EVERYTHING, but now I buy pretty much all of my games. I like to support the devs.

I just feel that this is a little too "big-brother is watching" for my taste.

 

[Illyasviel]

1. the suing thing now my memory might be fuzzy but wasn't the reason the RIAA stopped because that campaign failed miserably and even if the lawsuits works it would only solve the problem in the US(no other country would allow it that I'm aware of on a scale big enough to make a difference).

edit even in the US imagine the 60 min report on Joe and Jane losing their home because 11 year old Timmy downloaded a game would cause a PR backlash so sever it might cripple the gaming industry by itself. as for the evidence don't even get me started if anon were smart they would drive around and hack everyone wifi and download a whole bunch of shit making the trials impossible to win.

2. the more draconian measures thing, the company's share holders would have to be willfully ignorant or being lied to if they demanded that because the fundamental way in witch data works makes protecting it from duplication impossible, programmers are well aware of this and just keep making DRM because companys are dumb enough to pay for it(I don't blame them for it money naturally flows out of the hands of the rich and stupid and into the hands of the cunning)

3. the gaming dies thing, for that to be the case then games would have to be not truing a profit and piracy would have to be the soul cause, now I dont think that this has ever happened and I think that if it ever gets to the point where piracy stops anything from making money then we are already passed the point of no return.

i respect your opinion but I believe you are wrong, that freedom and people rights to their property no mater what the EULA says is much more important then the war on piracy, a loss of freedom is like a bolder losing height rolling down a mouton, once the bolder starts its does not tend to stop.

Point is there are a lot of things we can't stop. Doesn't mean people shouldn't try. I just used an extreme case because everybody is allowing themselves to be overcome with hysteria and automatically defaulting to the worst case scenario without carefully considering the causes. Honestly, you can't grab the attention of hysterical people without resorting to extremes yourself.

1. The RIAA hasn't stopped, they've just gotten smarter. They no longer allow lawsuits to reach critical mass. Instead, they wage a quiet war, avoiding criminal courts ( because that's bad publicity ) and sticking to civil cases ( nobody hears about civil cases ). In addition, they sue for absolutely ludicrous amounts that will lead to certain financial ruin, forcing defendants to settle outside of courts. A court case that is settled outside of court is not a case that is reported to news.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/riaa-jury-slaps-2-million-fine-on-jammie-thomas/
Keywords: "Only case to go to court." Read as: "Lawyer X, please give me advice on what to do?" "Settle out of court. My God, settle outside of court."

Also, so you're just going to throw Americans under the bus so you can enjoy your freedoms? Some defender of the people you are. I thought you were supposed to be a good guy.

Speaking of people that got thrown under the bus: Atticus Finch.

2. Other people have tried other tactics. None are working. Nothing trumps free. Gaming is aware of this. See "freemium model" under pornography. In addition, unlike the music industry which has associated alternative industries like live performances, gaming doesn't. At least not in everywhere else in the world but South Korea.

3. Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Wars, Halo: ODST, Halo: Reach.

Gaming is already getting there. What's the straw that will break the camel's back?

Additionally, by choosing to live within a society, we have already given up a lot of our rights. Freedom is not defined as doing whatever you want. Freedom is defined as the maximum tolerated deviance from what society accepts as the norm. In exchange, we gain security.

Last part: than we're cool?

 

[Uber Waddles]

The way I see this, YOU dont have the right to be against this, unless you intend to do something not lawful.

It reports what you do to Nintendo, but its not like it records your speech, sends pictures, etc. Its all game stuff. I get the "it might blahdy blah me by accident". Then sue them.

Its not a violation of your rights, its DRM the way it should be done.

If you plan on doing illicit things, dont complain that your having your rights stepped on: you deserve it. Thats what JAILS are.

IF you dont plan on it, dont complain. It makes the industry better. And its Nintendo. They wont brick you