Terrible, broken analogy. Getting someone's hard work without paying for it is a douche move. Stop trolling.Robot Overlord said:
3DS Piracy Targeted by Two-Prong Firmware Attack
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
I hate how Escapist writers pussyfoot around issues like piracy and DRM. Yeah, piracy is illegal, but always shoring yourself up against all angles by saying "[corporate entity] have every right* to protect their [product]. Bu----t, this seems to maybe, sorta, in a way, be a path that might, kinda, in a manner of speaking not be the best possible recourse."
And every time I read it, I think, For the love of all that's holy, either be an impartial robot, reporting only the facts, or stand up for your humanity and put your thoughts onto the page; not these halfhearted mutterings, like an ineffectual grade school victim mumbling about how it isn't fair the bullies are stealing his lunch money.
The truth is, barring further information, this is wrong on multiple levels.
1)As others have mentioned, updates can brick your console.
2)As far as we know, this is without your consent (as if it required consent, it would be no more effective than their current policy)
3)Even if you consent to some sort of all-encompassing EULA when first starting your 3DS, that doesn't mean anything, b/c it's one of those things that only shows up after you purchase the item. (And how would it apply if you bought a 3DS used and didn't see the screen?)
The most I'm willing to put up with is updates on the cartridges, that are required to play them, but that ask your permission before updating (y'know, like the PSP). That is the most level headed solution, and a good middle-ground between targeting pirates or targeting everyone in the hopes of hitting the pirates. The system as it stands is a tyrannical and oppressive system, further wresting control of our physical property from us.
*Slightly off-topic, the term "right" get's thrown around way too much, and it is used quite unthinkingly in this article. Since there is a distinct possibility that this violates a consumer's rights, do they really have such a right to implement this policy? Please consider your words more carefully.
And every time I read it, I think, For the love of all that's holy, either be an impartial robot, reporting only the facts, or stand up for your humanity and put your thoughts onto the page; not these halfhearted mutterings, like an ineffectual grade school victim mumbling about how it isn't fair the bullies are stealing his lunch money.
The truth is, barring further information, this is wrong on multiple levels.
1)As others have mentioned, updates can brick your console.
2)As far as we know, this is without your consent (as if it required consent, it would be no more effective than their current policy)
3)Even if you consent to some sort of all-encompassing EULA when first starting your 3DS, that doesn't mean anything, b/c it's one of those things that only shows up after you purchase the item. (And how would it apply if you bought a 3DS used and didn't see the screen?)
The most I'm willing to put up with is updates on the cartridges, that are required to play them, but that ask your permission before updating (y'know, like the PSP). That is the most level headed solution, and a good middle-ground between targeting pirates or targeting everyone in the hopes of hitting the pirates. The system as it stands is a tyrannical and oppressive system, further wresting control of our physical property from us.
*Slightly off-topic, the term "right" get's thrown around way too much, and it is used quite unthinkingly in this article. Since there is a distinct possibility that this violates a consumer's rights, do they really have such a right to implement this policy? Please consider your words more carefully.
This will make any sort of attempts of using a translation patch a serious pain. =/
To be honest, it's not the firmware updates that disturb me as much as the fact that the handheld is tied to such a degree to an online service. DSi-enhanced games were region-locked precisely beacuse of that reason and I fear 3DS games will be region-locked as well as a result of that.
To be honest, it's not the firmware updates that disturb me as much as the fact that the handheld is tied to such a degree to an online service. DSi-enhanced games were region-locked precisely beacuse of that reason and I fear 3DS games will be region-locked as well as a result of that.
All it would require is patching over, or bypassing these passive update attempts in the firmware. Since I assume pirates will eventually be using some modified form of the firmware, it stands to reason that it's merely a matter of time before these new tactics become a non-issue.
They made the R4. What's to stop these people (whoever they might be) from copying the functional/control firmware and cutting out the rest?
Still, these are interesting concepts.
They made the R4. What's to stop these people (whoever they might be) from copying the functional/control firmware and cutting out the rest?
Still, these are interesting concepts.
There's a huge difference. For one, anime isn't illegal, and it doesn't involve theft.Robot Overlord said:
Please get your metaphors straight next time.
Everybody who is happy with this system is an idiot. This gives nintendon't the power to shut down legitimate older games that they want people to buy sequels of. Pirates will be absolutely unaffected as they can just disable the wireless auto updates and removing the firmware from the games is going to be just as easy as removing the regular copy protection.
... ?
So just disable the part of the code that grabs the updates ...
I mean if you're cracking it anyway, what's to stop you from just doing that?
So just disable the part of the code that grabs the updates ...
I mean if you're cracking it anyway, what's to stop you from just doing that?
Most pirates are really nice folks, actually. You should go meet one sometime. Anywho, the fact that it's illegal doesn't necessarily mean that piracy is a bad thing. Most of them have their priorities in order, and anyway, the recent history (last decade) of the RIAA should be enough to convince anyone that the law is not always the best way to go. Sure, some pirates steal and don't give any thought to the people they hurt by doing it, but those are very few and far between in my experience (for example, there are many fewer of them than there are American government officials that do the same thing). Most pirates do care, and they will pirate a game, beat it, decide they like it, and buy it for the sole reason that they want to support the development team, and I think that's a much better and more honest way to do it.UltimatheChosen said:
Well usually DRMs are problems for legitimate users, but this doesn't sound like it would be, unless the updates are too buggy. I don't think this will be any more difficult to crack than anything else before it, but on the other hand, I think the updates will be good for various, non-piracy-related reasons, like other things they want to improve with the system. I guess the only qualm someone would have with it is if you'd rather run an older version of the firmware, but I don't see why you would want to do that, unless, again, the updates were too buggy. Which they won't be, because of course, this is Nintendo ^_^
It's possible to be a decent person in many ways but still be a complete douche when it comes to respecting ownership.DarthFennec said:
As I already stated, almost all pirates do respect the intellectual property of developers and other artists, in most cases moreso than non pirates.UltimatheChosen said:
You must have misread my post ^_^
"Moreso than non pirates"? I don't think you understand what intellectual property is.DarthFennec said:
I respect these people by paying when I want to use something they've created. The fact that some pirates might buy the game later is immaterial... because every single one of the non-pirates HAS to pay if they want the product.
Furthermore, you haven't stated any statistics to back up your argument of "most pirates later buy the game/TV show/whatever".
In fact, from what I've read, the opposite is true. Pirates will illegally download a game, then move on to another once they either finish it or get bored.
When a non pirate buys a game, they spend their good money on something that may or may not have been worth it. If it was worth it, great. If not, they throw it out or sell it used or let it sit and collect dust. Furthermore, if the game didn't end up being worth it, the buying of it poisons the industry a little more. The main reason most games nowadays are shit is because we buy those shit games, even when they aren't worth the money. I'm ashamed to say that as a legitimate game consumer, I myself am guilty of doing this.UltimatheChosen said:
Let's say, for sake of argument, that I am a pirate. When I download a game, I give it a test run. It's no different from renting it or borrowing it from a friend, except the rental store doesn't get money from me. I play it a while, and gauge if the experience was worth it. If not, I delete it and never think about it again. It's not as if I was going to buy it anyway, so no harm done. The devs don't have any less money because of me. If I do deem it a worthy experience, I buy a copy. I buy a few copies to give to my friends as well. I buy a shirt, if there is one. I donate directly to the devs, if I can. And I talk about the game to whoever will listen.
If I were to steal a game and I ended up enjoying it, I feel it would be my moral obligation to give as much financial support as humanly possible to the development team. Part of that means that I become a walking advertisement for it for the next few months, or sometimes the next few years, or even the rest of my life, if the game is good enough. It also includes buying as much shit from them as I can. Because it's not about the stuff that I buy, it's about the fact that the devs earned my support, and so I'll give them as much of it as I can give. I can't speak for all pirates obviously, but the ones I know of have more or less that outlook on the industry. On the other hand, non pirates don't even think about the developers, or who's getting their money, or why. They're just used to spending money on shit, no matter what it is. I think developers get more respect from pirates than from the non pirates, in that case.
I wasn't aware that you wanted any statistics. After all, nobody's given me any viable statistics in favor of your point of view. People just seem to take for granted the idea that whenever the game industry loses any control to its fans, it also loses a big hunk of money somehow. And people stand by that religiously, and make up these bullshit numbers off the top of their heads, in order to ... I don't know, prove a point I guess? Maybe.
I don't deny that. But this is an issue with the developer for not providing a demo (or too short of a demo), or perhaps on the part of the consumer for not reading reviews beforehand to learn if the game is any good.DarthFennec said:
No, the developer doesn't (necessarily) lose money from pirates, but it's still theft.DarthFennec said:
Piracy basically springs from a sense of entitlement. You don't have to play every game that might interest you, and you don't have the right to get these games free.
Basically, it's a matter of comparison. Piracy is theft. If thieves were often inclined to reimburse their victims, then I can guarantee you people would be much less concerned about robbery. But when you look at what actually happens with everything from muggings to stuff like Enron, you see that even when they reap benefits at the expense of other people, thieves don't ever "pay back" what they've gained.DarthFennec said:
In theory, yes, it would be great if pirates bought games that they stole and enjoyed. But in practice, there's no real incentive to pay money for something you already have, and so piracy ends up being simple theft.
Also: here are my statistics [http://smellslikedonkey.com/wordpress/?page_id=274].
UltimatheChosen said:
This guy has the right idea. Data piracy and theft are two completely different things. The immoral part of theft comes not from the thief having something he didn't have, but from the victim not having it anymore. If someone breaks into your house and steals your TV, that's theft, but if someone sits in their own house and uses some kind of machine to make an exact copy of your TV in their living room, there's no harm in it. Maybe Sony loses a few bucks to the guy because he didn't pay them for the TV, but if that kind of technology exists that can replicate things perfectly over large distances like that, I think Sony should expect people to do things like that. Because they will. At this point, buying TVs from Sony becomes less about having a TV and more about keeping business going to the guys that can give you more and better TVs. If not, they go bankrupt and die, and even though you got your TV for free, you'll never get a better one.enlargedhousecat said:
You can see the correlation between this fantasy and what's really happening with piracy. Thieves and pirates are not the same thing. The motive of the thief is usually desperation or selfishness; you have something they need/want and they'll take it from you. But in a world where it's so easy to copy things, like the internet, pirates are actually being given these things. They don't have to steal, it's not thievery. It's just sharing. Therefore, the motive is completely different.
It's obvious that artists and developers need money if they want to keep developing. If a pirate likes the way a game was developed, they're going to look forward to more. Anyone with half a braincell can put two and two together and realize that if the developer isn't paid, that's a bad thing for the pirate who's a fan. It's just logic, and most pirates are intelligent enough to have it. If you like a dev, you support them, because otherwise you won't hear from them again. That's not a thought process you see with thieves.
So, pirates have every incentive to pay. The vast majority of pirates have enough forethought to realize that paying helps create more games from that developer. It's a pity, in my mind, that more people don't seem capable of such forethought.
I have every right to play the game without paying the developer. It's called rental. I'm just bypassing the rental store. I expect now you'll whine at me about how I'm stealing money from Blockbuster Video, then.UltimatheChosen said:
Reviews and demos are as misleading as adverts and hype, surely any gamer understands that. To get a good enough feel for a game, it has to be actually played.UltimatheChosen said: