3DS Piracy Targeted by Two-Prong Firmware Attack
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
I'm quite happy my PSP doesn't feature automatic updates, since 90% of the data I keep on it is media I *can* play with homebrew media players, but isn't supported by the OFW.
I can also use it to read eBooks (not supported in the OFW), make calls with Skype (not supported on my model in the OFW because there "isn't enough memory"), stream nearly any media format (only partially supported in the OFW), and play music while in a game (not supported in the OFW).
I can also use my PSP as a PC controller, or output video over USB to capture screenshots, videos, or just play a game on a larger screen. None of which is, according to Sony, possible on the original PSP-1000.
Now, imagine what could be done with the 3DS's processing power, which seems to greatly outstrip the PSP.
Now, further imagine that these things are possible *in the original firmware,* while *only* blocking the ability to load a specific list of commercial titles. That would be accepted much more openly by the community, and would do far more to hinder piracy than this.
Take special note that the PSP's firmware hacking and homebrew scene existed *long* before anyone was making ripped UMDISOs playable, due to those who were doing the hacking not caring to find a way to do it. The ability to load disc images came about as a natural consequence of people wanting to find ways to write their own software and run it on the unit, and being forced to break the protection on the unit to do so.
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I can also use it to read eBooks (not supported in the OFW), make calls with Skype (not supported on my model in the OFW because there "isn't enough memory"), stream nearly any media format (only partially supported in the OFW), and play music while in a game (not supported in the OFW).
I can also use my PSP as a PC controller, or output video over USB to capture screenshots, videos, or just play a game on a larger screen. None of which is, according to Sony, possible on the original PSP-1000.
Now, imagine what could be done with the 3DS's processing power, which seems to greatly outstrip the PSP.
Now, further imagine that these things are possible *in the original firmware,* while *only* blocking the ability to load a specific list of commercial titles. That would be accepted much more openly by the community, and would do far more to hinder piracy than this.
Take special note that the PSP's firmware hacking and homebrew scene existed *long* before anyone was making ripped UMDISOs playable, due to those who were doing the hacking not caring to find a way to do it. The ability to load disc images came about as a natural consequence of people wanting to find ways to write their own software and run it on the unit, and being forced to break the protection on the unit to do so.
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Or thousands of dollars! Don't forget thousands of dollars!iceykitsune said:Try getting a dev kit when you don't have an "office"Danzaivar said:
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What? You can't block things that don't exist.Mr. Fister said:
These are all bad ideas.
1. Why on gawds cracked out earth would they want give people reasons NOT to buy games, jailbroken device or not? I can understand requiring the latest firmware to play online, its their house and their rules but not a mandatory useless update for single player.
2. No device of mine will connect to any network and transmit or receive any data without my explicit permission. Period. This was a pre-order/day one purchase for me but with this "feature" announcement I'm probably going to wait.
Nintendo needs to take a page what Blizzard did with WoW. The full plugin architecture steered all the "hackers" away from 3rd party applications and brought them into the legit, public system. Ninty needs to embrace the homebrew community instead of push them underground.
1. Why on gawds cracked out earth would they want give people reasons NOT to buy games, jailbroken device or not? I can understand requiring the latest firmware to play online, its their house and their rules but not a mandatory useless update for single player.
2. No device of mine will connect to any network and transmit or receive any data without my explicit permission. Period. This was a pre-order/day one purchase for me but with this "feature" announcement I'm probably going to wait.
Nintendo needs to take a page what Blizzard did with WoW. The full plugin architecture steered all the "hackers" away from 3rd party applications and brought them into the legit, public system. Ninty needs to embrace the homebrew community instead of push them underground.
... So cracked roms will have the update removed and people will turn off the wifi.
I get that most people who download software are retards who, in the absence of magent links, utorrent, and near perfect search engines, wouldn't be able to download anything at all, but these plans only affect stupid crackers. Which most people avoid like the plague anyway.
I get that most people who download software are retards who, in the absence of magent links, utorrent, and near perfect search engines, wouldn't be able to download anything at all, but these plans only affect stupid crackers. Which most people avoid like the plague anyway.
You know, I think they should just knock it off.
Let's be honest, anything Ninendo can do actively to stop piracy, pirates can do something just as actively to get around.
One of the first things they are liable to do is find some way of rigging the systems not to auto-update. Then it will be a matter of keeping an eye on the latest updates and creating their own patches.
In the end you'll probably have pirate-patches on the pirate games, and notations with the pirate downloads about how "this download will work with version whatever". So if say a boxed game or hotspot updates the DS, it's simply a matter of getting an updated version of your pirated game or whatever.
The bottom line is that irregardless of how it works, I find it annoying that they are investing all of this time and effort into trying to counter piracy, when it's not going to work to begin with. This expense falls on me, and I'm going to be left with a product that does stuff when I don't tell it to. I can't wait until they mess up a patch or something and I wind up "bricking" my system because I walked past a Starbucka and find myself unable to play games until they find a way to fix it. The fact that Nintendo probably thinks that customer inconveience is worth it says a lot about the mentality of the game industry nowadays.
Face it, piracy has been here nearly forever. Video games are a multi-billion dollar industry in spite of it. The attempted cures are rapidly getting worse than the crime itself. When I think people trying to protect their IP are worse than the criminals, something is wrong. Besides it's not like the gaming industry (viewed as a whole) is without sin to begin with itself.
Let's be honest, anything Ninendo can do actively to stop piracy, pirates can do something just as actively to get around.
One of the first things they are liable to do is find some way of rigging the systems not to auto-update. Then it will be a matter of keeping an eye on the latest updates and creating their own patches.
In the end you'll probably have pirate-patches on the pirate games, and notations with the pirate downloads about how "this download will work with version whatever". So if say a boxed game or hotspot updates the DS, it's simply a matter of getting an updated version of your pirated game or whatever.
The bottom line is that irregardless of how it works, I find it annoying that they are investing all of this time and effort into trying to counter piracy, when it's not going to work to begin with. This expense falls on me, and I'm going to be left with a product that does stuff when I don't tell it to. I can't wait until they mess up a patch or something and I wind up "bricking" my system because I walked past a Starbucka and find myself unable to play games until they find a way to fix it. The fact that Nintendo probably thinks that customer inconveience is worth it says a lot about the mentality of the game industry nowadays.
Face it, piracy has been here nearly forever. Video games are a multi-billion dollar industry in spite of it. The attempted cures are rapidly getting worse than the crime itself. When I think people trying to protect their IP are worse than the criminals, something is wrong. Besides it's not like the gaming industry (viewed as a whole) is without sin to begin with itself.
I wasn't planning to get the 3DS anyway (can't see 3D, what's the point?) but now it's a system that will never grace my home, if this is true. No system I own is permitted to download anything without my explicit knowledge and permission. To the best of my ability, I don't let my systems upload data either. Hell, the only time my PS3 is even hooked up the internet is when I'm checking for patches or shopping the Playstation store. It's all about control, it's my system, I need to control it. Take away my control, I'm not going to want the system any longer.
I'm sure the people that will be cracking this thing, likely before release or shortly after, appreciate this small heads up.
However, speaking on the "feature" of this thing updating and searching for wifi connections all on it's own. Well that seems extremely shady. If for no other reason, I bet a good many people will install custom firmware just to make sure they don't have to worry about Nintendo putting whatever in the blue hell they want on their 3DS.
Nintendo seems to be quickly turning into a very "Apple-like" company and that is NOT a good thing.
However, speaking on the "feature" of this thing updating and searching for wifi connections all on it's own. Well that seems extremely shady. If for no other reason, I bet a good many people will install custom firmware just to make sure they don't have to worry about Nintendo putting whatever in the blue hell they want on their 3DS.
Nintendo seems to be quickly turning into a very "Apple-like" company and that is NOT a good thing.
I only see one flaw with this, and it's a big one:
Remember that Wii update a long time ago that caused Wiis to crash or unable to read discs (and no, I'm talking about the updates that crashed the Wii if it had Homebrew Channel and stuff on it)? What if Nintendo screws up on an update? Millions of 3DS cease to function properly and Nintendo will have to find a way to fix every single one of them.
Remember that Wii update a long time ago that caused Wiis to crash or unable to read discs (and no, I'm talking about the updates that crashed the Wii if it had Homebrew Channel and stuff on it)? What if Nintendo screws up on an update? Millions of 3DS cease to function properly and Nintendo will have to find a way to fix every single one of them.
Well the PSP has been hacked numerous times with each Sony move being countered by the pirates. The PSP also features games that require a minimum firmware version to work. Admittedly the firmware doesn't install itself without user consent, but other than that its a fairly similar situation. The point here being that nothing is uncrackable, any great anti piracy measure that can be thought up can be undermined by pirates so long as they are talented enough, baiting them as here just means that some group will now be determined to have cracked the system by release day.
This sounds like a bad idea. I look forward to the day when someone's 3DS shuts down in the middle of a firmware update by running out of battery or just because the user didn't know of the update. Also possible corrupted download of the update. On the plus side, people might finally start protecting their wifi in the apartment complex since god knows how much data will be streamed through there.
All in all if this is the best Nintendo has to offer I have to say I'm disappointed. 3DS wasn't a launch day purchase anyhow (there's like 2 more Prof Layton games for the DS and I have a big enough backlog as it is) but it's becoming more and more a wait and see.
All in all if this is the best Nintendo has to offer I have to say I'm disappointed. 3DS wasn't a launch day purchase anyhow (there's like 2 more Prof Layton games for the DS and I have a big enough backlog as it is) but it's becoming more and more a wait and see.
On second thought, who keeps their DS in standby mode anyhow? I know I tend to power it off unless I'm in the middle of a game. Honest;y if this does update firmware in the middle of a game I can see all sorts of problems. On the other hand, so long as you power down after playing a game then the whole purpose is defeated (and for me I play on the Metro and Commuter train so except for like 2 min I'm in the train station, there is no Wifi hotspot for the DS to download from (as most of the networks I pass through either require either additional info before being able to use it or are just password protected).
In other words this may work in Japan but I don't see the same impact in the U.S. and especially Europe and Australia.
In other words this may work in Japan but I don't see the same impact in the U.S. and especially Europe and Australia.
If they aren't so tough on homebrew, this could be great. It's just, traditionally Nintendo has treated homebrew like another form of piracy.
But just look at the 360 and XNA. By sort of legitimizing what would otherwise be homebrew, they've cut down on the number of modded consoles, for sure, and limited piracy in the process; a lot of people mod for homebrew and then decide "I might as well pirate now that I can".
P.S. Thanks
But just look at the 360 and XNA. By sort of legitimizing what would otherwise be homebrew, they've cut down on the number of modded consoles, for sure, and limited piracy in the process; a lot of people mod for homebrew and then decide "I might as well pirate now that I can".
P.S. Thanks
Hm... there's a bit of an issue here, and it isn't the entire "Nintendo updating your software automatically" part.
See, it's pretty much a given that you can disable those automatic updates, since the wireless features can be toggled off. (A switch is completely visible on the current 3DS design.) The problem is that if you do leave it on, who's to say that you don't end up being hacked?
Think about it. The original DS had two firmware mods. One was a useful one called FlashMe, which added a lot of useful features for developing homebrew. The other one, though, was the infamous DSBrick, a trojan horse that breaks the DS if it's run. What if some hacker creates a 3DSBrick, and then takes their 3DS out in public with the wireless on? Everyone will be bricked automatically.
The only way to solve this issue is by making the firmware virtually impossible to modify. I suppose the DSi's firmware still hasn't been hacked, and they appear to be using AES and RSA in more places now, so maybe it won't be an issue after all.
See, it's pretty much a given that you can disable those automatic updates, since the wireless features can be toggled off. (A switch is completely visible on the current 3DS design.) The problem is that if you do leave it on, who's to say that you don't end up being hacked?
Think about it. The original DS had two firmware mods. One was a useful one called FlashMe, which added a lot of useful features for developing homebrew. The other one, though, was the infamous DSBrick, a trojan horse that breaks the DS if it's run. What if some hacker creates a 3DSBrick, and then takes their 3DS out in public with the wireless on? Everyone will be bricked automatically.
The only way to solve this issue is by making the firmware virtually impossible to modify. I suppose the DSi's firmware still hasn't been hacked, and they appear to be using AES and RSA in more places now, so maybe it won't be an issue after all.
I can see this fucking up. When Ninty released Wii Update 4.2, they crashed quite a few Wii's with that update permanently. As long as they make sure you know there is an update and force you to accept it first, then if your battery dies in the middle of an update, it won't screw up.