Well all the women I've EVER known to create xbox live accounts don't even play online, they just play Peggle/Zuma or any kind of casual Kinect game. The only reason they use live is to download microtransactions for those same casual games.
"40% of Xbox Live Users...
- Thread starter Moth_Monk
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Well, they're extremely patient and thick-skinned, I can tell you that!
Anyone who is able to survive and not turn into an XBlive savage certainly deserves my respect (since cases of gamer girls being assholes are nigh unheard of).
What happens to those who yiff on PSN?
Or do we not talk about those who dare to yiff?
Also, I am dissapointed at the lack of a panel representing the PC crowd, but then again it would probably be a large warehouse of mutes, non-english speakers and people screaming into their mics with GabeN sitting in his golden throne, mocking us.
Anyone who is able to survive and not turn into an XBlive savage certainly deserves my respect (since cases of gamer girls being assholes are nigh unheard of).
A question:Lilani said:
What happens to those who yiff on PSN?
Or do we not talk about those who dare to yiff?
Also, I am dissapointed at the lack of a panel representing the PC crowd, but then again it would probably be a large warehouse of mutes, non-english speakers and people screaming into their mics with GabeN sitting in his golden throne, mocking us.
This is still a little vague. Now, if MS came out and said 40% of Xbox Live GOLD accounts are owned by females, then it would be a useful statistic.
Not really, as it would tell use nothing about these persons gaming habits. If Microsoft did have any interest in furthering the debate (instead of just making themself look good for the investors) they would release statistics about male and female gaming habits (who plays what for how long).Brian Tams said:
Don't get me wrong I would love for there to be 40% women core gamers but I bet many of those gold accounts are whoever is paying to watch movies or are secondary accounts with their kids & boyfriends as the main.
MS are just cherry picking statistics to make themselves look good.
EDIT after fully reading the link MS aren't really stating they are 40% women gamers but rather to show how important non gaming services are nowadays.
MS are just cherry picking statistics to make themselves look good.
EDIT after fully reading the link MS aren't really stating they are 40% women gamers but rather to show how important non gaming services are nowadays.
I discovered that one of the girls that I work with is a massive gamer. She is a legend on Call of Duty and has definitely killed all of you a hundred times over. She is also very pretty, funny and works on the make up counter. I discovered this when we were stood in the same queue for GTAV. She said she planned to play it all night and in her own words 'I'm sending my boyfriend to bed early with his dick in his hands'. I'm in love!
That's definitely not my intention.Moth_Monk said:
Just showing that there has been a market enough for this for such a long time that even as early back as Pac Man games were being made specifically to market to girls.
I'm sorry if my post game off that way.
Having only a few hundred points is simply an indicator that the person in question either doesn't play many games or is phenomenally bad at the games they do play. Or perhaps some combination thereof. A gamer score or trophy count means little most of the time except it does allow one to draw broad strokes conclusions about someone's gaming habits on the platform.Lilani said:
This is interesting stuff. I would like to take a peek at scores/trophies on XBLA/PSN and games by the gender. That would be really interesting social information. Even more important, do console manufacturers share such info with publishers? If they do, publishers obviously know, in great detail, what goes around. To be honest, I would be really surprised if they didn't share such info. It would be good source of additional revenue.
Having being quoted unfavourably a few times and having now reread through my post from yesterday, I realise that I wrote it in a way that was easily misinterpreted, and I should have been a little clearer about exactly what I was saying.
First of all I was trying to point out that the statistic isn't particularly useful, rather than using it to suggest that women somehow weren't gamers. However you define gamers, my wife really isn't one, she'll play about once every six months and then afterwards complain she has a headache. I do regard my mother as a gamer, she has problems finding games she likes and so will go weeks or months without playing, but when there is a new release out she will play it for a few hours each day. Now she's retired she has more time to play than I do. However that fact isn't registered in her account on my Xbox (so it's an extra count for this statistic). Similarly I wasn't trying to boast about my gamerscore (or the size of my hat) 50,000 really isn't that much for someone who has spent a lot of time gaming over the years, and I'm sure that most of the Xbox-playing Escapists have higher scores.
The point about achievements is, as others have said, if you play nearly any game on the Xbox for an hour or so you are likely to get at least one achievement which records you as having played that game, Having achievement for completing chapters 1,2,3... or for things like driving 500 miles show that you have been playing that game a lot and thus presumably enjoyed that game.
I was also trying to say that Microsoft has a lot of data that would be more useful in seeing what the current trends are in gaming. Everyone seems to agree that more women are playing games, but whenever it's discussed there quickly appear two camps: 1) Women are just playing Farmville, Zumba Fitness, Just Dance and Bejewelled, and 2) women play more or less exactly the same games than men play. The truth is almost certainly somewhere between that, but no-one reporting on it seems to have hard data about it.
Similary lots of newspapers are reporting statistics like over 50% of gamers are now women, but don't really go in to the detail to back it up. The truth for both of these statements is probably somewhere inbetween.
While getting into definitions of who qualifies as a "gamer" is a pointless and divisive debate as it's clearly a spectrum, many of these newspaper articles are not distinguishing between people who have occassionally played a video game and those who regard it as a hobby.
The problem is that companies tend only to release statistics that make them look good or play to the message they are trying to promote. "40% of Xbox Live users are women" sounds good. They are not going to come out and say "But men spend x times more time and money on games". Similarly Activision are never going to just turn around and say "Yep, CoD and Madden, that's pretty much it for 87% of our customers" (That's a joke, love CoD, but we have these stereotypes floating around and companies are only going to confirm or deny them when is positive for them)
Having just written that sentence, it occurs to me the best way to solve this problem would be for somebody to simply to ask as many men and women as possible the question "Do you regard "video games" as one of your hobbies?" and see how the numbers shake out. I don't imagine it would be a 40/60 women/men split, possibly 30/70 of 20/80, but at the moment this is just a shot in the dark.
Rather than say intelligent debate I should probably have said informed debate.
First of all I was trying to point out that the statistic isn't particularly useful, rather than using it to suggest that women somehow weren't gamers. However you define gamers, my wife really isn't one, she'll play about once every six months and then afterwards complain she has a headache. I do regard my mother as a gamer, she has problems finding games she likes and so will go weeks or months without playing, but when there is a new release out she will play it for a few hours each day. Now she's retired she has more time to play than I do. However that fact isn't registered in her account on my Xbox (so it's an extra count for this statistic). Similarly I wasn't trying to boast about my gamerscore (or the size of my hat) 50,000 really isn't that much for someone who has spent a lot of time gaming over the years, and I'm sure that most of the Xbox-playing Escapists have higher scores.
The point about achievements is, as others have said, if you play nearly any game on the Xbox for an hour or so you are likely to get at least one achievement which records you as having played that game, Having achievement for completing chapters 1,2,3... or for things like driving 500 miles show that you have been playing that game a lot and thus presumably enjoyed that game.
I was also trying to say that Microsoft has a lot of data that would be more useful in seeing what the current trends are in gaming. Everyone seems to agree that more women are playing games, but whenever it's discussed there quickly appear two camps: 1) Women are just playing Farmville, Zumba Fitness, Just Dance and Bejewelled, and 2) women play more or less exactly the same games than men play. The truth is almost certainly somewhere between that, but no-one reporting on it seems to have hard data about it.
Similary lots of newspapers are reporting statistics like over 50% of gamers are now women, but don't really go in to the detail to back it up. The truth for both of these statements is probably somewhere inbetween.
While getting into definitions of who qualifies as a "gamer" is a pointless and divisive debate as it's clearly a spectrum, many of these newspaper articles are not distinguishing between people who have occassionally played a video game and those who regard it as a hobby.
The problem is that companies tend only to release statistics that make them look good or play to the message they are trying to promote. "40% of Xbox Live users are women" sounds good. They are not going to come out and say "But men spend x times more time and money on games". Similarly Activision are never going to just turn around and say "Yep, CoD and Madden, that's pretty much it for 87% of our customers" (That's a joke, love CoD, but we have these stereotypes floating around and companies are only going to confirm or deny them when is positive for them)
Having just written that sentence, it occurs to me the best way to solve this problem would be for somebody to simply to ask as many men and women as possible the question "Do you regard "video games" as one of your hobbies?" and see how the numbers shake out. I don't imagine it would be a 40/60 women/men split, possibly 30/70 of 20/80, but at the moment this is just a shot in the dark.
Rather than say intelligent debate I should probably have said informed debate.
So a better question might be which games have you been close to buying but decided not to because certain of the design decisions made you unhappy? Or which games would you not to buy a sequel to because of said design decision? I know your list isn't exhaustive but there are a couple of interesting things about it. You have Red Dead and Yakuza, but no GTA. Would it be more likely to be on your list if V had had at least one female protagonist in it? Fable is way above ME and DA, whereas I feel most male gamers would put it significantly lower, also no Skyrim/Fallout. No Racing games? Sniper but no CoD (unless SoD is a typo and not Shadows of the Damned)white_wolf said:
Well I do play fallout, skyrim, deus Ex HR, Command and Conquer, Kessen, Genji, FF7, Fatal Frame series, and more but like I said my list was short on purpose, after posting I thought I might want to list a few more varied types but I decided against it other wise I might just keep going, I'm a talker like that. Also my list was in no particular order of game fondness but they are games I enjoy and I tried to vary my genre types so you could get an idea of what I play.LaoJim said:
And sorry SoD is short for State of Decay
Now to answer more of your questions:
I have no real interest in buying GTA unless I'm that desperate for a new game and there isn't anything out now that I like but I need to play something in that moment of weakness and gaming withdraw I'll go, " Could I stand to play that game? It's got loads of customization!" and then I remember its GTA and then I remember all the ads I've seen of it and go, " Nope, not desperate enough," I use to play back in the PC days when it was simply jack the cars and outrun the police. That's why I liked Driver I got to run away from the cops I guess with the latest editions I feel like its too gehto with little fab and now with the V stating you can be a psycho torturer it really makes me not want to try it no matter what the customization options are. The series in general even the marketing for it never makes me go I want to buy it. Which is odd because I've played Urban Chaos which was a fem lead ganster style game from why back when and I've also played Sleeping Dogs. There may not be too much in difference between GTA vs SD.
If they had a woman lead or a woman option would I play it? She might make me look at it and give it some consideration rather then just walk on buy it but still I'm not sure if I'd want to play a fem in that game either. If she's going to make me want to know more about the game in question that she's the lead on I've got to have heard something about it ie there has to be marketing out there TV, youtube, ect put the same effort into advertising her game as hard core as you do the male titles don't make me have to search for it, liking the plot or something about the plot are finding something interesting or are we doing something noble, finding her compelling and cool or at least tolerable in look as w/o playing I'll have no real idea of her persona unless I've seen an ad that establishes who she is and so first voiceless impressions is important, and likinge the game genre she's in if I don't like racing games I'm not picking it up this is why its important to have fem leads of all genre types, then we can tac on the bonus points of great supportive casts, customization, the weapons or vehicles used, ect.
I also like to fallow women who are powerful not empowered from the girl power school for example Faith, Violet, Nilin good, Lollipop chainsaw and Misty (CoD) bad. It's ok if she has faults but it should be something rateable like her fault is she covered up a crime for her friend and is haunted by it rather then her fault being she has a womb, tits, is pregnant, or is having her period men aren't relating to the latter but might be willing to fallow the former.
Let's see games I wanted to buy but didn't due to game decisions I didn't like.....
BS - oddly I didn't like being in an undersea environment and ripping the heads off of children ( I know this is an optional item but I just wasn't going to bother with the game) sure I sometimes hate npc children but not that much! The general art direction also was a love/hate type of thing as well but I saw BSI and immediately went Yes I'm going to get this game! Maybe the bright colors, fun locals, and mysterious plot got me on the second one.
Call of Juarez - tried it and returned it quickly the mechanics of the whip and jump I loathed, the game made me feel too far out of control in curtain scenes like the prostitute friend I was yelling at my screen, " Hey wait no! No! Don't do that I don't want that!". I got this game because I enjoyed GUN so much I thought hey this is a FP of that but no really wasn't. The hero's persona was also not to my liking I didn't feel like I wanted to fallow him after level 3 so I didn't.
Heavenly Sword - She was a fem Cratos which as I said before his game was stagnating for me, to boot she's under dressed for her occupation, and box both front and back made me place this game so low on my list I've never picked it up it's like 1% interest at best not enough to justify me buying it anytime soon even now.
Other ones are so old they aren't worth mentioning unless you'd want to hear them right now for recent titles I'm waiting for holiday releases.
Sequels or continuations I didn't buy:
GoW3 - too much of the same old was bored by 2
RE 5 - After playing so many from this series I've called it quits its never going to be as good as the originals. It's dragging out and trying to be cool instead of scary.
Dead space 2 - I found the fist game to be dull, predictable, not scarey, and sickening, this game literately made me ill trying to play the zero G area's not just I'm sooooo dizzzy but damn where's my bathroom can I walk straight to get there?( now I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it!) and with the other two mentioned issues I quickly decided it needed a return. The other installments look to have shooter elements like ME so now its more of not scary and I've seen it before so I've got no interest in trying to retorment myself to play it.
Magna Carta 2 - after hearing about the first one for years in the PC world it finally got an import and console release I was all for it but QTE, the male characters looking too much like girls for his own good, and the girls being too flower child I decided half way through I'd suffered enough.
FFX-2 - I gave this one a try I loved FFX and frankly I got this because of Yuna being so great in the first game they totally turned this into a chick game that made me hate it right out the gate costume changes in battle? Girly anime personas? Inverse armor for all girls? Really this was a bad anime mixed with soap opera I still love Yuna it's just this game is dead to me and this is exactly what publishers should avoid making to pander to women because its insulting. The only thing worse then this game is the women leads of Dynasty Warriors.
Rainbow Six 2 - The first one was ok but there wasn't enough to keep my interest missions were dull, I'd seen most of this type of gameplay before in other titles so I quickly decided to stop wasting my time.
MGS3 - The series is getting too drawn out and of course Raiden if he's in the game or its about him I'm instantly dead set against it I'm so torn to pick up 4 because Meryl is in it but so is Raiden my pure hatred of him is competing with my love of her! The war is still on going can I suffer him again to see her? Because she's not even in there long. I hated nearly everything about MGS2 that snake eater wasn't appealing anymore I guess too little too late.
Again these are off the top of my head and games that I can give you answer to rather then the "Just the I can't put my finger on why I don't like this game but I don't." explanation.
I guess I should add things that turn me off to buying a fem game are fairly simple
With fem lead games a great way to lose me is too sexy outfits for her occupation if her purpose isn't a stripper but a warrior like Red Ninja, blades of time, and Heavenly Sword are it really makes me think twice on weather or not I wish to purchase the game if she's not dressed for combat especially if she or all the girls in the cast aren't dressed for combat but their male counterparts in the same units are. But if the game is like Hunted Demon's Forge it's at least equal in their dominatrix outfits and therefore I'll at least consider it with an open mind rather then be weary right off the bat. I feel that if a character especially a fem lead is going to go into battle they should be dressed like Fshep and ready for it rather then dressed like she's going to the strip club, out for a party, or ready for the beach because thats usually a sign right there the male gaze will be in gear rather then like DA and ME where its mostly left out of your playthrough all together. I don't want my camera checking out my fem hero its annoying they don't check out the male heros so don't do it the other way.
The game thinks that cute animals, pink, and doll dresses = female those things can be things that girls like but that doesn't mean those things are inherent to being a woman. If the fem hero is in a war game don't ruin the ad by placing fairy music in it, they way they did fshep's commercial while I hate her bad Gackt impression face is the same as male shep's just with her in it and that's great if it had fairytale music playing instead of the rock style in the background I'd hate it and want to turn it off.
This problem is highlighted in girl nerf commercial I saw the girls in question where dressed in jeans and shirts running through the woods ready for battle with their white and purple nerf bows with happy music in the background it was cheery up beat the type found in fairy tales and I thought wow this makes me not want to buy that product and I think they also just turned off the girls who already bought the yellow and orange ones. Why is it the boys get rock style music and the girls get this type of whimsical girl power music? Why can't the girls also have rockish tune with this video?
Or in order to get said rock tune would the girls then need to be dressed into prom dresses in order for marketing to allow its usage? Both of these are turn off if you already enjoyed the nerf line but wanted lighter colors this is a marketing difference they think girl = girly music and this disconnect between how to market a previously male line towards girls is off the girls who bought your line prior to fem purple don't like fairy happy or if they do they don't want it in their nerf commercial thats suppose to be serious and battle zoned the same issues is with the gaming world they don't know what to do when questioned about why wasn't character Y a girl most developers reply, " Well I/we just didn't think about it we just made the character male." now that they have to think about fem players who've been there and not thought about for the majority of their gaming lives since the 70's - 90's and now. You aren't winning over the FB and Ipad gamers so don't try work with the girls that have been here for years and are here in the now not try to pull in players you didn't have to begin with by making the box pink and saying its princess commander on the title.
And the marginalisation and generalisation begin....
Do we exclude the, too? Because they're a huge part of the gaming base on Live.
Well, except a lot of the dudebros I've seen who play shooters like Call of Duty have significantly less than a thousand--even a lot of them with fairly impressing KDRs and so on. There are quite a few games out there that don't rack you up points unless you play a certain way, and in the case of a bunch of games with an online element, you won't rack up many.Product Placement said:
Do we exclude the, too? Because they're a huge part of the gaming base on Live.
I've always wondered who exactly likes the typical effeminate style Japanese hero, like Raiden or ones you find in a lot of JRPG's. I guess the obvious answer is Japanese people, it certainly seems to drive a lot of Western players, male and female up the wall. I wonder if you are right about them not using their own data, are they not collecting it, are they collecting it but then ignoring it, or have they used it properly and then decided Japanese player > Female Players and conciously hence gone with girly Raiden.white_wolf said:
Anyway, you gave us a lot of good information about yourself as a player. Looking through it I'm not sure exactly how to respond as I haven't come to any great conclusion apart from "Women like and dislike games for a variety of different reasons, the same as men", which is not going to make me look like the sharpest tool in the box if I present it as some kind of stunning revelation. The tempation is also there to go through the list and say "cool, I liked that game too" or "what! you didn't like that game for that reason!" Instead I have to look at it in the way I guess a researcher would. So there's a couple of interesting things about your post. For example:
You played (and enjoyed?) Sleeping Dogs, but not GTA. Why were you attracted to SD? Superficially there are very similar. I loved SD for many reasons and I could maybe guess at some possible reasons.
But you listed Alan Wake as one of your games in your original post, so there are lots of potential questions there about what makes a good scary game.white_wolf said:
Ok, this is an interesting perspective, do you really mean that you would be okay with a game which does feature sexy outfits when the character IS a stripper? As long as there is context it's okay for my new game to start level one in a strip club, the zombies invade and our hero leaps from the middle of her strip-tease into action?white_wolf said:
Ok, so how are you on "cute" games in general? (Sonic, Animal Crossing, Mini-Ninjas etc) Is it just when it's associated with females that you find it a turn-off.white_wolf said:
So would it be fair to say there is some content in games you are unhappy with being there, **even though** you have a choice not to do it? Many people are unhappy about the torture scene in GTA V at the moment, would it improve their opinion of the game if you could chose not it?white_wolf said:
I think we're creating a huge quote wall! But I'm going to leave this whole section up so no one has to go back and find my post then link them to your questions but I will still sum up your questions below. OK here we go I'll start by answering some of the easiest ones:LaoJim said:
Q: would it be fair to say there is some content in games you are unhappy with being there, **even though** you have a choice not to do it? Would it improve their opinion of the game if you could chose not it?
I can't speak for other people in the way of would they find it improving if content X was optional but for me if the content of torture so and so or leave them for npc to deal with was an option and this was a game I was interested in playing anyway I'd take the leave the guy to npc to deal with and I (the character) leave before the teeth pulling and screaming begins would be ok.
For instance in the Witcher 2 I can choose to sleep with Triss at the bathhouse or not I'm cool with this I can walk away. I'm cool with after treating Vess like a warrior she decides she likes me and wants to sleep with me ( a bit cliche and male ego here) but by the way she's been portrayed all game this seems plausible with her character, I save the elf girl from fire she wants to thank me with sex (again cliche male ego) but its plausible and optional I can say no thanks ma'am. I'm not cool however with the opening moment of the game where Triss is naked on the bed Geralt is not and I as the player disassociate at this moment and go it's going to be like GoW again right? Luckily not much is started before it ends she could've been under the sheets but then the boys miss all the eye candy. I guess make Geralt also naked give the ladies some fan service and we'll call it even. Sex can be done in a way that isn't too fan service and gets the point across hero + love have a deep connection to each other see ME or DA.
If the content is optional or I can walk away from torture or beat the prostitute to get back my money or kill my hero's best friend then I'll do it even if it leads to say hero's best friend decides he is going to kill himself because she (my hero) didn't kill him and Stan couldn't take the shame of whatever evil he did or helped facilitate. But I can also see where budgets come in too many options not enough main plot action isn't always good depending on the story.
Q: Do you really mean that you would be okay with a game which does feature sexy outfits when the character IS a stripper?
For me if her profession is a stripper then sexy away. I guess you mean if my hero is a stripper or she needs to go undercover as one would I be fine with the sexy outfit? Yes. I would however hope they let me as the player pick how sexy my hero gets for her undercover job and doesn't give points rewarded for super sexy and zero points to less sexy this points rewards make players mad and tells them, " Hey our uber sexy outfit was the choice you stupid player should've picked it!" I don't mind going to missions like in ME were we had to keep going to strip clubs to conduct our business I just roll my eyes and hope I'm out of this zone fast which I always am in ME.
I didn't however like Saboteur having my home base in the strip club/ brothel I wish I had a back entrance I could've used (they did explain why his base was made there) its just this simple back door to my hiding cave would've been fine and then anyone who enjoys the ladies in the front feel free to walk in the main door in this way I just need to be in the club for the opening and short progression of the game after I get rewarded with my cave then I can also use this back door or make it a secret door if you feel worried my enemies will find it! This little add would make me not feel like going to my base was a chore and that I should prolong said chore by mowing down more N.a.z.i.s in my car.
Q: As long as there is context it's okay for my new game to start level one in a strip club, the zombies invade and our hero leaps from the middle of her strip-tease into action?
Basically I just want my fem hero and her fem crew dressed for their jobs like the males usually are if they're warriors give them armor that covers them and protects them neck to toe, if they're dock workers give them pants, a tshirt, and boots, if they're models give them a cute dress and heels if you want that short dress with a back expose its cool here its in context, if the hero was at a beach party and zombies struck yeah she's going to be trapped in the bikini but at least after she makes it to the high walled safe house let her get some real clothing out of the locker give her options to cover up or not samething if our male hero was in his swim trunks give me options to cover him in clothing or not so he can at least not be so readily available for zed feasting hour.
In short if the context is there why we need to be sexy flashy then find but I'd also like options to bunk this when possible unless there is some solid reason as to why I can't get out of my bikini gear the whole game beyond it has special powers cuz I know someone somewhere would use this. Maybe I can't change because I never make it to a safe base I'm a squatter on the run I sleep under palm leaves to hide from zombie hordes no time to raid homes for a sweater and shorts!
If the stripper was starting her dance and zombies show yes I expect her then to put her life above modesty but if she gets a safe house have the option to clothe her the player can always opt to keep her in her performance wear.
Comment: I haven't come to any great conclusion apart from "Women like and dislike games for a variety of different reasons, the same as men",
Yes this is pretty much what it boils down to. It's just our reasons can very a bit. What we consider an item that needs adjusting or a second look the guys may feel is great as is. I've been gaming since the 80's so I've seen tons of games, styles, and genres so my peevs and what I'd like to see or not from a game might be different from a girl whose gamed since 2010. Since I've grown up on them I'm use to lots of things just somethings I'm probably never going to get use to or not dissociate from my game over but usually I try to focus on what things in the game I like and forget about the busty maidens, poor cut scenes that have her naked and posing, poor nonsensical clothing, or cliche girl persona types that exist for fan service as often as possible but sometimes it is very in your face.
Q: You played (and enjoyed?) Sleeping Dogs, but not GTA. Why were you attracted to SD? Superficially there are very similar. I loved SD for many reasons and I could maybe guess at some possible reasons.
This is what I've been pondering since your last post. Why did I like SD and why not GTA? Honestly it's tough to give a straight answer or even a good one here. In GTA I'm a pure thug no apologies, like I said the first PC editions of this game was find car, take it, out run the cops now adays its much more evolved maybe I liked SD because I'm the cop under cover I'm only acting as the badguy and struggling not to mentally become him.
I enjoyed his nightmares showing his regret over the things he'd done and I too felt this way I didn't like the fact I had to do some things and in the parts I was indifferent about he struggled and I wanted to fallow him for it. But in one moment/episode I did feel slightly justified and guilty at the sametime when I had to drive the man to the mother to get hacked up. Granted I didn't know she was going to make stew out of him but I thought she'd do something nasty just not nearly nasty as it was I thought, " ok dude I'll take you to her she'll cut your balls off cuz you atlest deserve that much for what you've done to both of us," but after she gets ahold of him I felt guilty which I also assume was the point of this whole mission. The car mayhem was the fun, being in a world not my own was interesting, and the side quest where interesting (most of them) especially Give me a ride man! Damn I swore him off after he blew up the freaking store I was like " NO WAY I'M I EVER GIVING YOU A RIDE AGAIN!!!!!!" as I'm trying to outrun the entire police force... But in GTA I'm a thug I'm not acting, I'm not doing it for anything other then to excel at the GAME and not video game but game as in the lifestyle the cause doesn't appeal to me one bit can't really give a better reason.
Comment: I've always wondered who exactly likes the typical effeminate style Japanese hero, like Raiden or ones you find in a lot of JRPG's.
But see I like Japanese too just not Raiden he was sooooo whinny he was worse then an upset little girl in MGS2 and oddly enough before that game was released there were rumors about the hero being a woman and me and my friend ( she's also a gamer) were so excited to play as a woman doing the stealth action aaaaaannnd we got Raiden. I remember being actually mad at this Raiden looked like a girl which made it sting, we had such hopes of playing a game we already enjoyed as a woman dealing with that universe then oh my gosh he whined and cried like a man-child over little things so did his freaking girlfriend! The story says he was raised as a child solider and I'm like what? Doesn't act like one...boy I've never hated a character as much as I hate him not because he got genderflipped but because he cried and whined and this was our hero to replace Snake? Cool, awesome, legendary Snake? Seriously? I got jipped! This boy wasn't meeting the standards set by Snake at all.
But anyway some JRPGs or anime men I do like Cloud, Sephiroth, Testament, Mafuyu from fatal frame.
Q: But you listed Alan Wake as one of your games in your original post, so there are lots of potential questions there about what makes a good scary game.
I'm drawn in by the psychological horrors you know when the enemy or force is more implied then seen. There were moments in Dead space but no where near what I'd consider to be note worthy. I loved the forest in Wake when the darkness is destroying everything you hear the trees snapping as it swirls around and chases you the helicopters go down in its sheer force, cars are tossed like paper sure somethings were predictable like the waitress being creepy at the door was a dead give away and he was a brick, I'm like, " NO Alan she's creepy can't you see that?! Don't go in there!" But he did and I would've smack him over the head for it if I'd been there with a good I told you so to boot! The ward was crazy in so many ways it was in a setting not many games bother with. Resident Evil 1 and 2 were the best of the series for the creep factor, Kuon, Alone in the dark too. I guess the ability to shoot so readily at the always visible monsters makes the game too safe. I use to think it was the dark shadows or fog that lead to a great horror but its also the narrative the subtle things this genre as one poster pointed out so easy to get wrong but oh so great when you get it right.
I guess the only thing I can really say if you wanted to make a psychological horror game is go back to the classics analyze the crap out of them find out what made them scary and build yours similar but not copy it get the feeling, take your time, and then hope you did enough. It's like making props you've got to put in time.
Q: Ok, so how are you on "cute" games in general? (Sonic, Animal Crossing, Mini-Ninjas etc)
I use to play Sonic back in the day of the Saturn and Ecco but not anymore I grew up and so did my interest. I also don't consider sonic or Ecco to be cute they just are like sly cooper just is they're animals with human likes or personas. I wouldn't touch farmville or animal crossing though I know girls who cross over between animal crossing and racing sims so...you figure that one out...ummm let's see cute...nope the only cute animals I like is my dog in Fable and Haunting Grounds if my animal is useful I'll like it but if he's a window dressing for the sake of it don't bother placing him in the game. Like the cats and pigs in AC3 are nice, they make the world more alive, but considering all that was wrong with that game they could've left the domestic animals out.
Q: Is it just when it's associated with females that you find it (cute animals) a turn-off.
I guess I could say when the game company or marketing think that cute IS female rather then its just a potential. Or pink and fairies IS female. Its like if men where solely classified with the sports car as in no action movies no gore fests its just the male IS the car you'd see 98% of your movies, books, and comics about the male and his car not racing with it just being shown with it posing around it, having it as logos on his clothing, talking about does Jenny like his car, or he's not complete without his car, he would never been seen on screen without something car related, the car is inherent to being male and neither the two shall part. No its not male its a car some men likes cars some men don't the men who like cars are not the sole example to be found in the male population they're varied, unique, some even see cars as a thing to get them from point A to B (gasp!) but all men love cars the only way we can reach them is by showing them cars and men with the cars looking macho and fast motion lines!
Boss: WE need MOAR cars why isn't our war game selling? Why don't they like it?
Intern: Maybe its the cars boss, maybe they like something else?
Boss: No! No man is complete with out a sports car we need more cars!
Intern: But we really only have one type maybe if we changed a few to blue to make it look different.
Boss: I know we need the box colors to be more poppy get more red in there! Get more motion blurred lines They aren't sporty enough!
Intern:.....If it gets anymore sporty I'm going to hurl sir.
It's just some girls like fluffy animals others don't and that doesn't mean we're defined by that like or thats all there is to us. And the girls who've been here playing your HL, theif, RR, MW, and SH didn't buy that game because it had horses, barbie, pastels, and fairies on it. They didn't enjoy those games because it had those thing and they didn't dislike those games because it lacked those things. They've got to find away to contact us the gamers I've never gotten a poll or question or had Ubisoft find me and want to pick my brain or Lion Head wanting me to play test their games for feedback this conversation is as close as I've been to anyone asking anything actually wanting answers.
But I think I answered all your questions if I missed one just reask it and I'll respond. Hopefully all this helps.
Have you people never been to a corporate meeting before? Even if it sounds like something is being said, nothing is being said.
"Nearly 40 percent of Xbox Live users in the U.S. are women"
That's the quote from the original article, and as you can see it means nothing.
When the word "users" is used, what does it mean?
Does it mean accounts? Active accounts? Or people who physically touch the controller?
If it is physical users, do you only have to play for 5 minutes a month? What are the criteria?
Do you even have to use Xbox live for games? or could it just be for TV?
Why only the US? Is the distribution different in other countries?
Is there a reason this point was brought up during the skype and communication section of the talk?
Come on people, this is Microsoft we're talking about here. You're really going to take something they say at face value? The comment in question isn't anything to agree or disagree with, it's entirely meaningless.
"Nearly 40 percent of Xbox Live users in the U.S. are women"
That's the quote from the original article, and as you can see it means nothing.
When the word "users" is used, what does it mean?
Does it mean accounts? Active accounts? Or people who physically touch the controller?
If it is physical users, do you only have to play for 5 minutes a month? What are the criteria?
Do you even have to use Xbox live for games? or could it just be for TV?
Why only the US? Is the distribution different in other countries?
Is there a reason this point was brought up during the skype and communication section of the talk?
Come on people, this is Microsoft we're talking about here. You're really going to take something they say at face value? The comment in question isn't anything to agree or disagree with, it's entirely meaningless.
Ok, so I understand a lot of what you are saying, and I'm glad you've taken the time to answer my questions so fully. I could ask a hundred other questions but this thread probably isn't the place to do it, and we're kind of hijacking it at the moment and covering a lot of different points at the same time (cuteness, sexiness, scariness). If these are things you want to talk more about it might be a good idea to create some threads and to try and get other female gamers to give their opinions on these things.white_wolf said:
Making new threads might be a good idea. You've asked some well thought out questions.LaoJim said: