40k vs. Starcraft

[Twad]

Well, it isnt new. IIRC the starcraft team started working on a warhammer game before they split (for XYZ reason). Now even if they kinda look alike on the surface, they are both very much different both in lore and gameplay.

I love both. Warhammer 40k is a rich setting ( i use a ultramarine army, pretty solid) and the tabletop game is FUN. Starcraft is fun too and i like the storyline.

I LOVE Starcraft, mainly for its MP and the SP is just plain fun B-movie shit. I always wanted to get into Warhammer, where should I start?

I also wanted to play Tabletop games, I tried to play the Star Wars TT, however due to lack of funds and no one to play with (I live in a 900 pop. town) I could never get enough. Still, with more money now I can still get the items, just not the people. I go to college next year so :/ Hopefully I can get into that sort of stuff.

My friends an i started on a "budget" we had some army books but no figurines in a 600 km radius around us.. so we built our armies from scratch (example: paper "soldiers" weighted down with pennies but with the right height, pictures to represent unit, colored edges for squads, chuck noris face for squad leaders, clips to tack specials weapons on them) Its cheap. Its easy to repace and works well for a place-holder when we simply had no other options. now we all have half-done GW figurines/vehicles that work in tandem with our "improvised" troops and vehicles.. some of or improvised troops got quite memorable.

Anyway, we simply dont play enough to make more investment worth out time/money. We buy GW stuff when we want the cool stuff or want to have some fun building them.

My suggestion for you; do as we did, use props and simple place-holders, improvise what you can for troops and vehicles. Get the books you need, print the quick-reference pages. Learn the rules, read, re-read, re-re-read them again (it took us a good year to have a real firm grasp on the rules, there are a lot of them and sometimes a situation is just so weird its hard to find the right rule for it).
You will make tons and tons of mistakes, its normal. Just take your time, rad the rules and eventually it will all become clear.
Really, just start by mastering the basic stuff like movement rules, shooting rules, melee rules, cover rules.

Play a few small, simple scenarios. Like a few infantry VS few infantry,maybe with a vehicle or two. Nothing big. Just to test the rules. Start small, use as few new "complicated stuff" as possible in each match.
A small match (with peopel who know the rules by heart) might take around 2 hours. Bigger stuff might take upward of 3-4 hours and more..

See if its fun for you and your buddies. If yes then start making the matches a bit bigger, more complex, with a larger variety of races ect. If your group is hooked on it start investing for real stuff, its an expensive hobby so make sure you like it and have people to play with or else its a lot of time and money tha tmight go to waste.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I dunno, my main complaint is that the Starcraft universe lacks any sort of personality whatsoever. The orks and other factions in 40k really make the games for me.

Edit: As for the actual games, I prefer Dawn of War. Starcraft II isn't very fun for me to play.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

Pretty common knowledge blizzard raped GW for thier lore

 

[EbonBehelit]

As far as RTS's are concerned, I've always preferred Starcraft in terms of gameplay - it's just a far more polished series.

I still love the first Dawn of War though (not DoW 2, which disappointed me to no end) - at least until I try to move my army across the map, which takes bloody forever due to unbelievably bad squad pathing.

Nevertheless, it's impossible to deny that the Warhammer 40k lore is FAR superior to Starcraft's. It's better than pretty much every game on the market, as is Warhammer Fantasy's.

 

[ShankHA32]

I don't really see where the "vs" in the title of the thread comes in. As you pointed out in the OP, you've known that 40k err... "inspired" the Starcraft Lore.

From what I've heard, there's little doubt in my mind that 40K Lore is superior. The books are bestsellers, and they have quite a head start.

From a gameplay point of view however, I've played many 40k games and SC, SC:BW, and SC2, and I'd say I prefer starcraft. Plus, anyone who says you can "pick up SC and automatically become a master" as opposed to 40k's "steep learning curve and originality, variety, awesomeness, etc. etc. etc." obviously never played Brood War. That game has some of the steepest learning curves online of any game, and Starcraft is THE sport of Korea. There's a reason Starcraft reigns as one of the best RTS's of all time, and thats due to balance, constant support from Blizzard, and a limitless skill cap. At least as far as BW is concerned, SC2 has a long way to go.

I'd also just like to throw in the miscellaneous fact that I enjoy Company of Heroes more than Dawn of War.

 

[SilentCom]

I rather like WH40k and not really a fan of Starcraft, that's not to say that Starcraft is bad or anything, I have enjoyed playing it back in the day. Also, did anyone else think that Aliens versus Predator is a copy of both Starcraft and WH40k? Seriously, the marines = (space) marines, the Aliens = Zerg = Tyranid, and the Predators = Protoss = Eldar. I'm not sure when the whole Aliens versus Predator franchise came about but its getting tiring.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Never the Soul Drinkers! Never again. Yes I can maybe buy a renegade Space Marine Chapter that is still loyal to the Imperium. But they also worship Chaos?? THE FUCK

No no no no no, I'm afraid you're quite mistaken:

Spoiler

The Soul Drinkers were on a mission to recover a sacred relic from a criminal organization. The relic in question was a spear that their Primarch Rogal Dorn apparently used. However, the Adeptus Mechanicus arrived and took the spear for themselves. After the Mechanicus refused to return the spear, the Soul Drinkers boarded their ship, slaying thousands of Tech-Guard. The Inquisition caught wind of this and excommunicated the Chapter. The Soul Drinkers then came to realize just how tyrannical and corrupt the Imperium really was.

While the Chapter did become unwitting pawns of Tzeentch for a short time, they fought and broke free of the Chaos god's scheme once they realized what was going on. The Soul Drinkers hate Chaos as much as any loyalist Chapter, it's just that they fight the Imperium as well. They essentially fight the "good fight," taking on the Imperium and Chaos alike in the name of freedom.

Admittedly the story's a bit lame at times (oh yeah, turn your back on thousands of years of service to the Imperium because of a stolen spear), but I like the basic concept.

Back on-topic, I would say that Starcraft is heavily influenced by Warhammer 40k. I definitely prefer Warhammer, but I don't have a problem with other people liking Starcraft more. I just get a bit irked sometimes when folks that don't know the history of the franchises say Starcraft came first.

 

[Shroomhell]

Never the Soul Drinkers! Never again. Yes I can maybe buy a renegade Space Marine Chapter that is still loyal to the Imperium. But they also worship Chaos?? THE FUCK

OT: Yes, and there have been many arguments at the hobby shop where I preside in all of my free time.

The Soul Drinkers don't worship Chaos. They almost did, but once the one that they thought was the Emperor revealed himself to be Abraxes they killed the Daemon Prince, returning to the sole worship of the Emperor. Though they still believe that the Empire is corrupt and counter to the Emperor's will.

I must say that comparing the games is useless. They have much different mechanics, and while I might not like Starcraft as much for it's average graphics and lack of diversity in general. From what I have seen it is really meant for tournaments/head to head. Starcraft is a much faster paced game while Warhammer is more given to longer conflicts.

*edit* The Soul Drinkers didn't really turn their backs on the Imperium because of the spear. It started with the attack on the Mechanicus station to retrieve the spear, and then they were persecuted for that and it escalated from there

 

[Deadman Walkin]

StarCraft II ? 12 years and its the same game as the orginal...just polished.

People didn't want a different game, they wanted basically the same game they had come to love. Look at the CoD series....

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

*Snort*

Warhammer 40k isn't at all derivative, is it?

Oh, wait. Necrons are basically Undead crossed with Terminators, Tau are basically mecha anime guys, Eldar and Dark Eldar are just Elves and Dark Elves with extra GRIMDARK...hell, 40k is basically a standard fantasy setting with advanced technology and GRIMDARK. And I love it for that, but it's not like it's a work of art. Jesus.

 

[KingmanHighborn]

Nothing new here. This observation was made years ago... back when starcraft was initially released actually.

Many a conspiracy over this.

Starcraft is the reason GW high-ups are still slamming their heads into the wall. As mentioned before, SC was supposed to be a 40k game but GW got scared and pulled the plug at the last moment. Blizzard changed enough to avoid copyright issues, released it anyway, and ended up with possibly the most popular RTS franchise there is.
I never really saw the Eldar = Protoss connection though. Protoss are way tougher than flimsy space elves.

Yeah the conspiracy theory I heard came from Blizzard actually stealing some 'leaked' pre designs for the Tau, as the army's regular foot soliders were going to be power weapon wielding no guns close quarters army backed by 'drones' and 'carriers' as well as a lot of other design features, but once Starcraft unveiled the supposed near 1 for 1 Protoss they cancelled thier intial Tau idea and revamped it and years later they got turned into a firepower army afraid of getting thier hands bloody.

My personal opinion is Starcraft AND Warcraft are blantant rip offs, but have a name and following to make a court battle to big of a headache for either side to care. As time as went on though it's clear that while Games Workshop's universes are dark, terror inducing, gritty, and interesting, Blizzard's universes are comical, cheesy, and shallow, but do have some decent RTS elements. Though I prefer Dawn of War well and above over both SC 1 & 2 in terms of gameplay and replay ability and I prefer tabletop over video game I do have some bias.

I haven't played Diablo but looking at it, it seems like they just ripped off D&D so I add that to the mix as well.

The biggest mistake GW has made in my mind is chargeing monthly fees for thier MMOs. WoW offers nothing worth paying for, and adds nothing to the universe.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I wouldn't go slapping the rip-off card around because these are both extremely old franchises and neither is all that innovative, they just took the D&D formula and set it in space... and that's the full extent of their idea.

Not saying they didn't spin it into some awesome shit, but the basic formula is very crude.

 

[Shio]

I think Protoss are more like the Tau but otherwise your spot on.
There is alot of similarity, because of reasons mentioned by others in the thread.
Its also the same reason why Warhammer and warcraft are so similair.

If it weren't for the cheesy mechs, the Tau would be the sexiest race ever.

Just sayin'.

 

[Asehujiko]

I find it both hilarious and sad that many raging warhams don't seem to realize that
1. It isn't Blizzard's fault that the settings look alike but GW's, due to aforementioned contract dickery.
2. The entire thing is basically a ripoff of various Heinlein works anyway.
3. The Tau were created in 2000, the Protoss in 1998.
4. The entire idea behind DoW2 is basically the Rexxar Campaign with more Steve Blum.
5. The Tyranids received a major overhaul in 1999, changing from being almost exclusively gene-stealer cults and reptilian, into the space bugs they are now.
6. That only leaves the Terrans vs Imperium, who's only similarity is that they both have marines in power armor that fill completely different roles(invented by E. E. Smith, 1937).
7. They don't have a good story. Ravenor, Gaunt's Ghosts and Caiphas Cain are good but they are a tiny oasis of quality in a desert of shit that everybody conveniently ignores when attacking another IP. "hurr Richard A. Knaak is terrible, therefor the entire setting is!" Newsflash: So is C. S. Goto and every other HH book is about a random guy doing nothing significant and then getting killed at Istvvan III or V, depending on the color of his armor.

 

[Cavan]

Gamers have this weird thing about games where being the 1st to do something is for some reason really important, whereas being a copy, even if a BETTER copy is somehow inferior.

Gamers also have a weird thing whereby whichever one they happen to like most/is most popular becomes THE GAME WHICH DID EVERYTHING FIRST, I call it WoW syndrome.

As in "wow that's a shiny coin you have there" "WoW DID SHINY COINS FIRST"

It's often backed up by "yeah well x made it good/popular so they're still the first"

 

[veloper]

Now I know that I'll get quite a bit of flak for this but I believe that Starcraft is a near carbon copy of Warhammer 40k. Just take a look.

Terrans and Space Marines

Little similarity.
Both wear power armor (NOT a GW invention) but that goes with the sci-fi.

Tyranids and Zerg

They look similar enough. Not enough to condemn Blizzard by itself thouhg.

Eldar and Protoss

Eldar look like fantasy elves underneath their armor. No similarity.


Major difference: no orcs, drow, demons, chaos marines, etc. WH40K is FANTASY with some SF elements, while SC is still soft sci-fi.

 

[Nouw]

Starship Troopers spits on you all.

but it's not like it's a work of art. Jesus.

By definition, I'm pretty sure it is.

Also,

 

[Raddra]

Yeah, people have known Blizzard pretty much ripped off Games Workshop. 40k to Starcraft, Warhammer to World of Warcraft.

Didn't read the thread since blizzard fanboys defend their pet company with rapid gnashing teeth.

GW could have taken the to the cleaners for plagiarism in the early days, but they didnt because they're gamers who enjoy the genre and like to see more of it out there. At least that's what I was told.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Yeah, I know that this has been brought up a lot but it really bothers me, and yes I am a Warhammer fanboy but I respect both parties and this is a neutral arguement in the way I'm presenting it.

Yeah, me too. It's unfortunate, isn't it? Consider the possibility that Starcraft was meant to be a Warhammer 40K game, but Blizzard couldn't get the license at the time.

I'm serious, that's the only rational explanation I have for them to do what they did. Either that or Metzen really thinks he's brilliant for ripping off 40K in like, every possible way.

Well it depends, are you comparing Starcraft to the tabletop game or to the "video" games. Because from a video game perspective Starcraft was first to appear.

As if. The first 40k game was Space Crusade, released in 1992. How about Vengeance of the Blood Angels, 1995? Or Final Liberation, 1997?
StarCraft was released in 1998.

Have you tried the remake of the board game they made? Despite being on a board, it's actually terrifying. You can imagine the terminators marching through to hulk, stopping when they here a Genestealer scratching. There, something down the corridor! They fire, only to see nothing. They turn around to look down another corridor. When they turn back, one of their squad is missing...

Ohohoho.

You forgot to mention Space Hulk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_%28video_game%29]. It scared the shit out of me when I was playing it when I was like 6 years old, lol.

 

[AlternatePFG]

I would say that neither series is particularly original. 40k seems to take alot of elements from different sci-fi and mix them together and fit them into their universe. That's what makes it awesome. I don't think you could really call Starcraft a direct rip-off simply because the parts of 40k that people say Starcraft ripped off are pretty common sci-fi tropes.