Although the overall settings for the games are very different, it can't be escaped that, yes, from a purely aesthetic point of view, Starcraft does take a LOT of cues from 40k. However, even though 40k came first, (and Blizzard have actually come out to say that it was a big inspiration for Starcraft), there are many aspects of 40k that have come about since the first Starcraft, that seem to be drawing the inspiration the other way. We all know the Zerg are almost a carbon copy of the Tyranids, but, when SC first came out, the Tyranids were no where near as richly fleshed out as they are today. Personally, yes I do think Starcraft ripped a few things off, but it's alright because the aesthetic that the two games share has now spread to many other games (video and tabletop) and I think it's really started to achieve what 40k set out to do in the first place: create a general, overarching idea of a sci-fi re-imagining of the general Tolkien-esque fantasy setting that almost every Western fantasy game finds itself in.
40k vs. Starcraft
- Thread starter Whodat
- Start date
Basically,
Starcraft is based on Warcraft, which was originally designed to be a Warhammer game, but the planning fell through and it became its own franchise. Because of this, Blizzard RTS has always been noticeably derivative of the Warhammer franchise.
Another interesting thing to note:
The trio of Human-Monstrous Alien-Supertechnology alien is in a lot of franchises. It's not as much a "staple" as Human-Elf-Dwarf-Orc, but it's definitely close.
Terran-Zerg-Protoss
Marine-Alien-Predator
Human-Flood-Covenant
Space Marine-Tyranid-Eldar
GDI-Scrin-Nod
Etc.
Starcraft is based on Warcraft, which was originally designed to be a Warhammer game, but the planning fell through and it became its own franchise. Because of this, Blizzard RTS has always been noticeably derivative of the Warhammer franchise.
Another interesting thing to note:
The trio of Human-Monstrous Alien-Supertechnology alien is in a lot of franchises. It's not as much a "staple" as Human-Elf-Dwarf-Orc, but it's definitely close.
Terran-Zerg-Protoss
Marine-Alien-Predator
Human-Flood-Covenant
Space Marine-Tyranid-Eldar
GDI-Scrin-Nod
Etc.
Your right, If you want great lore and story (besides retribution expansion) get warhamer 40k.Volkov said:
You want a hyper competitve masterfully balaced game with some ofthe best and smoothest gameplay ever get starcraft.
Lore in warhammer is AMAZING outside of the games. I love my miniture army
Repent! for tommorow you DIE! (cookie for who knows who my army is) Also the books are awsome.Games are kind off bleghh. Thule plays a BIG part in like what? 3 games? Latest expansion they dont even TELL YOU what happened and why hes not with the force commander. Oh hes a simple boss choas just rolls over..... Oh but cyrus! hes there! cant leave him out.
What a F*&^&*% WASTE of money.
Hmm I see. I'll be honest I thought that Dawn of War was the first video game made and any other Warhammer 40k games before that were just board games. But it seems that's not quite true, oh well no shame in being proved wrong.Da Orky Man said:
Yeah, me too. It's unfortunate, isn't it? Consider the possibility that Starcraft was meant to be a Warhammer 40K game, but Blizzard couldn't get the license at the time.Whodat said:
I'm serious, that's the only rational explanation I have for them to do what they did. Either that or Metzen really thinks he's brilliant for ripping off 40K in like, every possible way.
Ohohoho.Da Orky Man said:
You forgot to mention Space Hulk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_%28video_game%29]. It scared the shit out of me when I was playing it when I was like 6 years old, lol.
the only carbon copy i see here are the reply's, doesn't any one read the other posts before replying? but to the subject at hand.
both IPs took most of they're design notes from Heinlein and other writers(not to mention that both have dribble for "lore" and plot compared to decent Scifi novels), and from a visual design point SC did the better job, WH40k is over designed with every thing from the marines to the bugs being too elaborate and eye straining compared to the simpler and clearer look of SC.
both IPs took most of they're design notes from Heinlein and other writers(not to mention that both have dribble for "lore" and plot compared to decent Scifi novels), and from a visual design point SC did the better job, WH40k is over designed with every thing from the marines to the bugs being too elaborate and eye straining compared to the simpler and clearer look of SC.
I don't know if any WH40K players realise this, but WH40K's story is complicated as fuck.
Starcraft is simpler, more compact and easily accessible, but the price they pay for that is less variety and less originality.
I'm sure WH40K has better characters, better gameplay, better story, better everything, but Starcraft is basically pick up and play and requires virtually no introduction.
Starcraft is simpler, more compact and easily accessible, but the price they pay for that is less variety and less originality.
I'm sure WH40K has better characters, better gameplay, better story, better everything, but Starcraft is basically pick up and play and requires virtually no introduction.
My friends an i started on a "budget" we had some army books but no figurines in a 600 km radius around us.. so we built our armies from scratch (example: paper "soldiers" weighted down with pennies but with the right height, pictures to represent unit, colored edges for squads, chuck noris face for squad leaders, clips to tack specials weapons on them) Its cheap. Its easy to repace and works well for a place-holder when we simply had no other options. now we all have half-done GW figurines/vehicles that work in tandem with our "improvised" troops and vehicles.. some of or improvised troops got quite memorable.Captain Placeholder said:
Anyway, we simply dont play enough to make more investment worth out time/money. We buy GW stuff when we want the cool stuff or want to have some fun building them.
My suggestion for you; do as we did, use props and simple place-holders, improvise what you can for troops and vehicles. Get the books you need, print the quick-reference pages. Learn the rules, read, re-read, re-re-read them again (it took us a good year to have a real firm grasp on the rules, there are a lot of them and sometimes a situation is just so weird its hard to find the right rule for it).
You will make tons and tons of mistakes, its normal. Just take your time, rad the rules and eventually it will all become clear.
Really, just start by mastering the basic stuff like movement rules, shooting rules, melee rules, cover rules.
Play a few small, simple scenarios. Like a few infantry VS few infantry,maybe with a vehicle or two. Nothing big. Just to test the rules. Start small, use as few new "complicated stuff" as possible in each match.
A small match (with peopel who know the rules by heart) might take around 2 hours. Bigger stuff might take upward of 3-4 hours and more..
See if its fun for you and your buddies. If yes then start making the matches a bit bigger, more complex, with a larger variety of races ect. If your group is hooked on it start investing for real stuff, its an expensive hobby so make sure you like it and have people to play with or else its a lot of time and money tha tmight go to waste.
I dunno, my main complaint is that the Starcraft universe lacks any sort of personality whatsoever. The orks and other factions in 40k really make the games for me.
Edit: As for the actual games, I prefer Dawn of War. Starcraft II isn't very fun for me to play.
Edit: As for the actual games, I prefer Dawn of War. Starcraft II isn't very fun for me to play.
As far as RTS's are concerned, I've always preferred Starcraft in terms of gameplay - it's just a far more polished series.
I still love the first Dawn of War though (not DoW 2, which disappointed me to no end) - at least until I try to move my army across the map, which takes bloody forever due to unbelievably bad squad pathing.
Nevertheless, it's impossible to deny that the Warhammer 40k lore is FAR superior to Starcraft's. It's better than pretty much every game on the market, as is Warhammer Fantasy's.
I still love the first Dawn of War though (not DoW 2, which disappointed me to no end) - at least until I try to move my army across the map, which takes bloody forever due to unbelievably bad squad pathing.
Nevertheless, it's impossible to deny that the Warhammer 40k lore is FAR superior to Starcraft's. It's better than pretty much every game on the market, as is Warhammer Fantasy's.
I don't really see where the "vs" in the title of the thread comes in. As you pointed out in the OP, you've known that 40k err... "inspired" the Starcraft Lore.
From what I've heard, there's little doubt in my mind that 40K Lore is superior. The books are bestsellers, and they have quite a head start.
From a gameplay point of view however, I've played many 40k games and SC, SC:BW, and SC2, and I'd say I prefer starcraft. Plus, anyone who says you can "pick up SC and automatically become a master" as opposed to 40k's "steep learning curve and originality, variety, awesomeness, etc. etc. etc." obviously never played Brood War. That game has some of the steepest learning curves online of any game, and Starcraft is THE sport of Korea. There's a reason Starcraft reigns as one of the best RTS's of all time, and thats due to balance, constant support from Blizzard, and a limitless skill cap. At least as far as BW is concerned, SC2 has a long way to go.
I'd also just like to throw in the miscellaneous fact that I enjoy Company of Heroes more than Dawn of War.
From what I've heard, there's little doubt in my mind that 40K Lore is superior. The books are bestsellers, and they have quite a head start.
From a gameplay point of view however, I've played many 40k games and SC, SC:BW, and SC2, and I'd say I prefer starcraft. Plus, anyone who says you can "pick up SC and automatically become a master" as opposed to 40k's "steep learning curve and originality, variety, awesomeness, etc. etc. etc." obviously never played Brood War. That game has some of the steepest learning curves online of any game, and Starcraft is THE sport of Korea. There's a reason Starcraft reigns as one of the best RTS's of all time, and thats due to balance, constant support from Blizzard, and a limitless skill cap. At least as far as BW is concerned, SC2 has a long way to go.
I'd also just like to throw in the miscellaneous fact that I enjoy Company of Heroes more than Dawn of War.
I rather like WH40k and not really a fan of Starcraft, that's not to say that Starcraft is bad or anything, I have enjoyed playing it back in the day. Also, did anyone else think that Aliens versus Predator is a copy of both Starcraft and WH40k? Seriously, the marines = (space) marines, the Aliens = Zerg = Tyranid, and the Predators = Protoss = Eldar. I'm not sure when the whole Aliens versus Predator franchise came about but its getting tiring.
No no no no no, I'm afraid you're quite mistaken:lax4life said:
The Soul Drinkers were on a mission to recover a sacred relic from a criminal organization. The relic in question was a spear that their Primarch Rogal Dorn apparently used. However, the Adeptus Mechanicus arrived and took the spear for themselves. After the Mechanicus refused to return the spear, the Soul Drinkers boarded their ship, slaying thousands of Tech-Guard. The Inquisition caught wind of this and excommunicated the Chapter. The Soul Drinkers then came to realize just how tyrannical and corrupt the Imperium really was.
While the Chapter did become unwitting pawns of Tzeentch for a short time, they fought and broke free of the Chaos god's scheme once they realized what was going on. The Soul Drinkers hate Chaos as much as any loyalist Chapter, it's just that they fight the Imperium as well. They essentially fight the "good fight," taking on the Imperium and Chaos alike in the name of freedom.
While the Chapter did become unwitting pawns of Tzeentch for a short time, they fought and broke free of the Chaos god's scheme once they realized what was going on. The Soul Drinkers hate Chaos as much as any loyalist Chapter, it's just that they fight the Imperium as well. They essentially fight the "good fight," taking on the Imperium and Chaos alike in the name of freedom.
Back on-topic, I would say that Starcraft is heavily influenced by Warhammer 40k. I definitely prefer Warhammer, but I don't have a problem with other people liking Starcraft more. I just get a bit irked sometimes when folks that don't know the history of the franchises say Starcraft came first.
The Soul Drinkers don't worship Chaos. They almost did, but once the one that they thought was the Emperor revealed himself to be Abraxes they killed the Daemon Prince, returning to the sole worship of the Emperor. Though they still believe that the Empire is corrupt and counter to the Emperor's will.lax4life said:
I must say that comparing the games is useless. They have much different mechanics, and while I might not like Starcraft as much for it's average graphics and lack of diversity in general. From what I have seen it is really meant for tournaments/head to head. Starcraft is a much faster paced game while Warhammer is more given to longer conflicts.
*edit* The Soul Drinkers didn't really turn their backs on the Imperium because of the spear. It started with the attack on the Mechanicus station to retrieve the spear, and then they were persecuted for that and it escalated from there
People didn't want a different game, they wanted basically the same game they had come to love. Look at the CoD series....mikozero said: