Burton's Busts
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Hrm. Guess I have to rewatch the original Batman... Don't remember it being THAT bad.
I still feel that Keaton was the best Batman, period.
I still feel that Keaton was the best Batman, period.
Sometimes, I feel like the only one who hates Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Gene Wilder's performance cannot be matched.
I can't say I disagree with anything on this list of bad Burton films, but mostly I'm just astonished to see anyone else put Pee Wee's Big Adventure on the list of his masterpieces. Because every time I tell somebody how much I love that movie, I get blank stares of incomprehension or outright hostility!
Which is frankly baffling, because it's a comedic masterpiece, especially the way it satirizes the film creation process in Hollywood, and all of Burtons odd trademark elements work perfectly in that film.
Don't even get me started on the breakfast machine or Elfman's soundtrack (so cool!). So yeah, nice to see somebody else praising that film.
Which is frankly baffling, because it's a comedic masterpiece, especially the way it satirizes the film creation process in Hollywood, and all of Burtons odd trademark elements work perfectly in that film.
Don't even get me started on the breakfast machine or Elfman's soundtrack (so cool!). So yeah, nice to see somebody else praising that film.
I almost don't want to watch the review after seeing that headline. Usually I watch the review before hand so I can get more, I guess you'd say artistic view, of the movie in question.
Can't help but say I'm slightly concerned now cause I've been really looking forward to this movie.
Can't help but say I'm slightly concerned now cause I've been really looking forward to this movie.
I agree on the Batman bits, but I fucking LOVED Charlie and the Chocolate factory.
The first movie was just kind of sugar-coated tripping without atmosphere or soul (or good songs, for that matter) while Burton actually did what Dahl was always so good at: making stories that are actually DARK.
Also, the sets and the music were waaaaaaaay better. And the atmosphere kicked ass. Sure, maybe not the greatest movie ever, but definitely very good. IMHO.
To be honest, I also completely hated Watchmen, so maybe we just like different stuff about our movies.
The first movie was just kind of sugar-coated tripping without atmosphere or soul (or good songs, for that matter) while Burton actually did what Dahl was always so good at: making stories that are actually DARK.
Also, the sets and the music were waaaaaaaay better. And the atmosphere kicked ass. Sure, maybe not the greatest movie ever, but definitely very good. IMHO.
To be honest, I also completely hated Watchmen, so maybe we just like different stuff about our movies.
I re-watched the Batman films a couple of months back and whereas I enjoyed them when they came out, they don't really stand up to much now.
Planet of the Apes was Tim Burton? Never made the connection.
Charlie and the chocolate factory wasn't amazing, but at the very least it beat the appalling 1970's version that was enough to make you physically sick (even if there did seem to do a homage in some parts). I like the book too much to get along with any film version, so I can't really comment.
No Sweeney Todd? I'm disappointed...
Planet of the Apes was Tim Burton? Never made the connection.
Charlie and the chocolate factory wasn't amazing, but at the very least it beat the appalling 1970's version that was enough to make you physically sick (even if there did seem to do a homage in some parts). I like the book too much to get along with any film version, so I can't really comment.
No Sweeney Todd? I'm disappointed...
Despite agreeing with most of your points I feel the need to disagree a bit with a few points you made.
Batman & Batman Returns
- Looking back, yeah, they weren't that great; but they're interesting to compare to the new Batman series. In these first movie I actually found the protagonist to be the most interesting character on screen (I still don't understand the flak Keaton gets for the role). In the current series, he's the least interesting character (come on, who watched Dark Knight to see Christian Bale?) with fascinating villains (BTW, thank you very little for making Scarecrow permament second-rate cannon fodder... jerks). It's only a shame that the Olson twins ate Heath Ledger's soul.
Planet of the Apes
- I beleive the term, "No redeeming narrative qualities" works quite well here.
Charlie & the Chocolate Factory
- Didn't hate it completely, but preferred Gene Wilder. Agree that it belongs here. BTW, am I the only one amused by the facts that "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" is actually about Charlie and "Charlie & the Chocolate Factory" is actually about Willy Wonka?
- Mike TeeVee's sin isn't intelligence, it's intolerance and impatience coupled with anger management issues. I'm willing to bet they did thier research for his role off of XBox Live Halo 3 CTF matches =).
Alice in Wonderland
- Looked like a horrid mess just from the trailers, held out faith they were wrong, going to need a stiff drink to live down the disappointment.
Batman & Batman Returns
- Looking back, yeah, they weren't that great; but they're interesting to compare to the new Batman series. In these first movie I actually found the protagonist to be the most interesting character on screen (I still don't understand the flak Keaton gets for the role). In the current series, he's the least interesting character (come on, who watched Dark Knight to see Christian Bale?) with fascinating villains (BTW, thank you very little for making Scarecrow permament second-rate cannon fodder... jerks). It's only a shame that the Olson twins ate Heath Ledger's soul.
Planet of the Apes
- I beleive the term, "No redeeming narrative qualities" works quite well here.
Charlie & the Chocolate Factory
- Didn't hate it completely, but preferred Gene Wilder. Agree that it belongs here. BTW, am I the only one amused by the facts that "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" is actually about Charlie and "Charlie & the Chocolate Factory" is actually about Willy Wonka?
- Mike TeeVee's sin isn't intelligence, it's intolerance and impatience coupled with anger management issues. I'm willing to bet they did thier research for his role off of XBox Live Halo 3 CTF matches =).
Alice in Wonderland
- Looked like a horrid mess just from the trailers, held out faith they were wrong, going to need a stiff drink to live down the disappointment.
Not really, he's just hit or miss.
His biggest hits were back in the Beetlejuice/Edward Scissorhands/nightmare era, but he still drops a good film from time to time.
Corpse Bride, Big Fish, Sweeney Todd, all great movies from his much more recent past, just none as heavy hitting as his past films. In most cases because they simply failed to live up to the legacy he created.
It's like comparing Twilight Princess to Ocarina of time. TP is a great game, but it doesn't stand very well when measured against OoT.
-m
His biggest hits were back in the Beetlejuice/Edward Scissorhands/nightmare era, but he still drops a good film from time to time.
Corpse Bride, Big Fish, Sweeney Todd, all great movies from his much more recent past, just none as heavy hitting as his past films. In most cases because they simply failed to live up to the legacy he created.
It's like comparing Twilight Princess to Ocarina of time. TP is a great game, but it doesn't stand very well when measured against OoT.
-m
Well, seeing as Burton's Batman actually felt like "Batman" compaired to Nolan's terrorist-subtext cyber-Batman, I'd have to say that you are absolutely full off sh- your own opinion.
I agree.Quiet Stranger said:
I think there are a ton of things one can criticize about the movie, true, but "And it had next to nothing in the way of respect for its source material" isn't it. It's a comic book superhero. What source material are you talking about? Comic book superheroes get reinvented with pretty much every new attempt at packaging them. That's *why* they get repackaged so often. And that's why they stay relevant for so long, because they do get repackaged.
Burton's version was copying from both the cheesy TV version and the grittier comic books that had been published in the meantime. That is probably why, as you put it, "the pop-cultural importance of Burton's Batman can't be overestimated": it's always appeared to me to intentionally move the Batman franchise away from the silly caped crusader the mass market was used to from TV, without submitting the same mass market to a full-blown Frank Miller Splatterfest. It's either a masterpiece, or there was a ton of luck involved in timing and the exact design, and knowing Burton's other movies, I'd put more money on the former.
On the other hand it's fair to say that it hasn't aged terribly well; in part, that's because it was successful at bringing superheroes to the big screen. Of course the Dark Knight looks more contemporary; people have now been watching the same old superhero story for so long they again needed a fresh look, and the Dark Knight attempts just that. This is probably the first time we're made to forget that the main character dresses up as a bat, where we can take him entirely seriously and can be just a little scared of how far he can go in his quest for his version of justice.
Lastly, comparing Batman 1989 to Spider-Man? Please! It's pretty much the epitome of superhero movie genericity... to the point that while yes, it's not really bad, it's so forgettable that it pretty much triggered superhero-tiredness in people. Well, maybe that's just me.