#5

[Unesh52]

Dr. Mark, I greatly appreciate your perspective and expertise! But what is the deal with those SCVs, and their anal-fixation?

...wut?

OT: ...actually, i really don't have much to say; the above has dramatically confused me. I think people are naturally violent and need ways to express there deep seeded, "unhealthy" desires. I put it in quotes because I mean that the desires are perfectly natural, it's just that expressing them in the obvious way would be inconvenient for society. That's why I listen to loud music when I'm upset instead of raping my dog or whatever. They're both expressions of natural, hateful urges, but one is much "healthier." Video games are one of those mediums of expression, I'd say.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

Dr Mark, you have a very good point. There were always the sociopaths and such. People will always blame it on something else. I think part of it is the fact that it might have some fault in them they are refusing to accept. Or it might be they don't want to come back with "I just don't know why."

From my experience video games can make someone in some ways more aggressive, but not to the point of murdering someone.. After all, who hasn't thrown a controller?

I use video games as escape too. I use them to make me happy when I'm sad, to let me relax when I'm tensed up or upset. They let me get away from the problems for a little while.

I know this "excuse" is almost cliche at this point, but gaming is, for lack of a better term, cleaner than other "escapes". We don't get drunk, we don't shoot real people, we may do things in the game, but there is a 1/2 inch sheet of glass and hundreds of dollars of technology in between me and my fantasy world. And I certainly haven't hurt anyone because of it.

 

[PurplePlatypus]

No arguments with any point except the idea that video games make people disinterested in real life. Weather that is true or not is up to debate, but even if it is, is it really that different from any other form of excapism? I mean ask Jim the Stereotypical Jock what he thinks of the flu and he'll give so half-assed explanation. Ask him about the game last night and he'll launch into detail about the individual plays and calls.

Video games aren't different from any other kind of escapism, they are just new. Nobody would question a film buff today, but 100 years ago was a different story.

It isn?t different, not at all. He could very well have been talking about books, movies and even too an extent about people tendencies to want to believe in weird, mysterious and spooky things.

 

[Wardnath]

It's nothing we haven't heard before, really.

 

[theultimateend]

Good article. I really like how you used FBI's crime rates to put support your point, and it brings up a lot of interesting ideas. Could it be that crime rates are dropping because the youth have an outlet for their aggression in games? Could it be that youth longing to belong to a group have an outlet beside gangs? hmm...

That seemed to be the theory that just about every Psychologist at my University had come to.

As far as I know there is little to no credible evidence that violent video games lead anyone but folks already predisposed to be violent to violence. Most studies that support the claim that it does are backed financially by religious groups or folks with large monetary gains to be made by regulation.

In other words, violent people are attracted to simulated violence, but simulated violence does not create violent people. To put it black and white (in other words wrongly). But it gets the point across well enough I suppose.

It isn?t different, not at all. He could very well have been talking about books, movies and even too an extent about people tendencies to want to believe in weird, mysterious and spooky things.

I've been playing games since I was in very low single digit numbers. It wasn't until I started reading avidly that I became less interested in the world around me.

Well ok, that's not entirely true. I became less interested in uninteresting things. Melodrama and gossip have almost no real exciting effect on me. Because of that I lost what was apparently a large part of the conversations going on in my young life.

I still think animals are amazing, that nature is an astounding thing, I love a nice cool day where the sky is bright, I marvel at sights seen while standing at the precipice of a steep cliff, and I fight to understand the infinity that is the universe.

I think most gamers aren't disjointed from life, they just expect more from it, that may be completely wrong but it's just my guess since that's how I feel. Not necessarily explosions and flashing lights everywhere, but substance.

 

[RvLeshrac]

The violent aggression I do occasionally see seems more related to intensive drug and alcohol consumption, and often involves young people from different sub-cultures than the gaming world--athletes are a good example because their activity involves so much actual aggression, which can sometimes boil over into real life.

Penn and Teller <a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX60j_rlTOA>said it best, I think.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Another great article Dr Mark! You really are giving us a nice unbiased view into our own minds, which we all appreciate, I'm sure.

 

[FFMattCR]

That was the most coherent 15 year old writing I've read on the internet! Please tell me you didn't have to edit that mail, it gives me hope for humanity to see something like that when these days the internet tends to be full of overused memes, excessive shorthand and endless insults.

In any case, another informed, well written article about games. I do want to mention this:

There were certainly times when elation or irritation colored my mood outside of gaming. It might be as simple as reliving a great victory in my mind repeatedly throughout the day and feeling jaunty about it, or being sour and depressed because of an ongoing frustration. Usually, this all added up to a continuing involvement with gaming long after I stopped a given session of play. Sometimes the thoughts and emotions were quite intrusive. I couldn't stop drifting into them even when I should have been paying attention to other things.

At the moment, I am at work, but I'm spending time looking up my favorite gaming site because, what's on my mind? Games, as usual. I really need to work on this.

It was actually my question, I dont know if I'm supposed to say that since he only put the question in his article, no names, but I read his last one on anti-social communication on online games and it made me think of the flip side, what things are like in real life for those types of people. I e-mailed it to him (yeah it is pretty much word for word, I think he only changed the way I said MMOG's) last month and he replied quick, I didn't expect a whole article just on my question though. It's really the first time I've done something like this and it's actually been put out there for people to see

 

[RandomWords]

No, if you say otherwise then video games are probably your scapegoat for being so violent.

 

[Netrosis]

Awesome read.

If you asked me why I play games my biggest answer would be "because I like them", and then I need to branch out on why I like them.

Games are a great escape mechanism. I can be angry or frustrated about something, then I'll turn around and play games for a bit and forget how or why I was angry in the first place.

It's been great for helping me out with overcoming my Agoraphobia (professionally diagnosed) and Social Phobia & Anxiety. I used to panic whenever I knew I had to leave the house, like days in advance. Gaming was great to distract me enough that I could actually get to sleep without medication.


So in many ways, I was carrying my emotion with me to play, and let the game leech it out of me. Before I know it I'm thinking about how to avoid being killed in game, or how I can better my character, get a higher score or a neat new strategy to win the game/round/match.
The only problem was when I was playing WoW and I'd get too involved and end up not being able to detach myself from the game easily.

As of now I've stopped playing subscription games, otherwise I feel like I need to play. I've brought some colour back into my life by pursuing my interests and hobbies outside of World of Warcraft, and well games in general. In that way I can understand exactly what you mean when you talk about colouring people's mood. I'm so glad I stopped playing WoW to pursue other stuff, it's really shined some light in my direction.

I've filled it with some other mindless life colouring stuff (no, not drugs) but at least I've become a more productive person because of it.

Thanks for the awesome article.

 

[Anacortian]

I know I have been critical of almost every column thusfar, but I only see good here. I really enjoyed the read.

The violent aggression I do occasionally see seems more related to intensive drug and alcohol consumption, and often involves young people from different sub-cultures than the gaming world--athletes are a good example because their activity involves so much actual aggression, which can sometimes boil over into real life.

Penn and Teller <a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX60j_rlTOA>said it best, I think.

Penn and Teller are awesome. Whenever I have to support the liberty verbally, I just refer the fascist or socialist to a Bullshit episode. If only there was less boobs and bad words. I have nothing against either personally, but many do and so would not be able to watch a lot of their work. For those folk, we have Stossel.

 

[Archon]

Great article, Dr. Mark. I have personally experienced the "flattening-out" you describe. At times, what's gone in gaming has been far more interesting than what's gone on in my day-to-day existence. (I had to start a game company to overcome this problem!)

 

[literallyanythingelse]

Does this tendency spill over into, say, aggressive or depressing music? For example, a lot of people I know who listen to bands like Slipknot or Disturbed are quite angsty , but I listen to a lot of heavy music and I don't get depressed. Am I the exception or the rule? Or is it just that people with emotional issues tend to be drawn towards the music because of its lyrical content, whereas I predominantly enjoy the melodic side of it (such as it is)?
Just something to think about, there's definitely a parallel to be drawn with violence and video games - in fact, extreme music has also been blamed erroneously for violent crime, so maybe the cases are a lot more similar than I first thought.

 

[FFMattCR]

Does this tendency spill over into, say, aggressive or depressing music? For example, a lot of people I know who listen to bands like Slipknot or Disturbed are quite angsty , but I listen to a lot of heavy music and I don't get depressed. Am I the exception or the rule? Or is it just that people with emotional issues tend to be drawn towards the music because of its lyrical content, whereas I predominantly enjoy the melodic side of it (such as it is)?
Just something to think about, there's definitely a parallel to be drawn with violence and video games - in fact, extreme music has also been blamed erroneously for violent crime, so maybe the cases are a lot more similar than I first thought.

I see where you're coming from with the music bit,
I mean, there may be some connection and you're not alone in the way you listen to it because I listen to so much rock and metal from Slipknot to Fall out boy, MCR, Foo Fighters, Metallica, Every Avenue, and I'm generally not that influenced, I just think it sounds great

I don't think that people "get" depressed from listening to the music, its like the other way around, for example sometimes, quite rarely though, I find that if I'm not in such a good mood, I tend to listen to stuff like Psychosocial, and the heavier songs, usually while I'm thrashing away on guitar to sort of release my anger or any other less-than-positive emotions, but the songs don't make it worse, after that I'm back to normal

If thats what you meant?

 

[Bloodstain]

Very good article, Dr. Mark, might be one of the best The Escapist has ever seen.

I found the idea of comparing the emotional intenseness of video games and the "real life" interesting, I never thought of that.

I have even wondered if some gamers play out violent fantasies through gaming in ways that make them less, not more, likely to act them out in real life--the displacement may prove to be satisfying enough.

Oh yes. When I'm angry and play violent video games, I end up being pretty calm. Still, I don't know wether it is because of ingame-violence which acts, as you supposed, as a replacement, or the distraction from the anger and the concentration on new goals in general.

There seem to be a lot of studies contradicting each other. Last month, a study [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/101160-New-Study-Most-Teenagers-are-Unaffected-by-Violent-Gaming] claimed that most teenagers are unaffected. A few months earlier, there was a study claiming that violent gaming makes you more aggressive. I wonder when the next of those studies will be finished.

 

[Nateman742]

Great article. I don't really think violence in games is an aggression enhancer, and on the subject of desensitization, real violence is currently much, much different from the silly, over-exaggerated gore in video games. Everyone I've met is only desensitized to video game gore, and will usually grimace or even feel sick at real bloodshed. As an anecdote, I faint when I see real blood, but exploding heads, smashed limbs, and chestbursting aliens in video games don't bother me one bit!

 

[kuvasza]

The structure of this question -- Do videogames make people violent or merely attract violent people? -- is brilliant. Think of the possible implications if we apply it on a broad scale!

Does golf make people serially unfaithful or merely attract philanderers?
Does politics make people lie, cheat, and steal or merely attract career politicians?
Do the Oakland Raiders make their fans violent, drunken thugs or merely attract drunken, violent fans?

The possibilities are endless.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

In other words, violent videogames are neither sufficient, nor even necessary for violent behavior, but can, at most, be considered as a merely possible contributing factor by providing one possible alternative for desensitization for those who are already prone to sociopathy/psychopathy. I agree. All the research is on aggression NOT violence, and although the two are obviously related, they are by no means interchangeable. Right-winger censors will never get far by showing that violent videogames cause actual violence because they quite simply do not. They may partially contribute, but so can many other factors, and thus they cannot on that basis alone be censored. This is more or less my theory as well.

The real question relates not to the FCC but to practicing psychologists like Dr. Mark. The question is; "are violent videogames a healthy activity for this individual" and must be thus applied to INDIVIDUALS, not to society. I imagine the question is answered differently for each individual, but there may also be general rules that we may glean from treatments, such as "allowing children under the age of 15 to play violent videogames increases the probability of those children having more social issues, or resolving social issues with aggression" just as a hypothetical example. But even if this were the case, it would only warrant pamphlets and ad campaigns to make parents aware of this tendency because the said effects are not dangerous, and thus do not even remotely fall under the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" clause of the First Amendment. And if some effect like this were actually proven there SHOULD be an awareness campaign. It's my understanding that awareness campaigns are almost always more effective than direct censorship, with the added benefit that developers won't have to worry about a $1000 fine every time a clerk sells an MA ranked videogame to a minor, because the parents will be doing the job instead of the District Attorney. (I am of course making reference to the California bill which would make it a crime to sell to minors.)

 

[Booze Zombie]

I know that games can make you angry in a sort of childish way because I have yelled at my parents, I have insulted people in a fit of rage, but I could never imagine them making someone go psycho, though.

But then, maybe I'm too grounded in reality... maybe I'm not unhinged enough to have a real opinion on the subject of games making me go crazy.

Either way, I enjoyed your article and I'm glad you didn't approach it like "this is gaming, it's sacred, you'll never get angry doing this, it's pure win".