56% of American Gamers Don't Buy Games

[ThePuzzldPirate]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

Until the publishers starts buying those used copies and selling them themselves, they don't get to *****.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Games are a luxury not a right.

The second hand market is a right as well. First Sale Doctrine and all that. Just thought I should mention that as well.

OT: If you want to stop used games, address the issue as to why people sell their games back, not why people buy them.

 

[Phas]

Also how did the games get to be pre-owned, someone must have bought them so the publishers are getting money.

So, if I hypothetically bought a membership card to a club, and sold it to another guy, that guy would have paid the club?

 

[chadachada123]

I hate DLC, because the vast majority of it is completely worthless. Not that it isn't fun, but it certainly isn't worth the price, especially since the actual fans of the series get screwed over the hardest.

I sank $60 into Borderlands, and then bought every DLC, only to find out that a "Game of the Year" edition was being released with all of the DLC coming with it. That's complete bullshit, and that is why I will no longer buy DLC for most games.

The way Battlefield Bad Company 2 handled it is far better, and for this reason, I have no problem with Online Passes that come with free DLC and the like. I oppose requiring passes for single-player modes or modes that don't require the internet (split-screen, etc), but this option is far better than what Activision does with Call of Duty.

I am not spending $120 for $70 worth of content. If the game costs $60 and comes with 12 maps and the campaign and Spec Ops, an additional 12 maps should not cost the same price.

 

[chadachada123]

Also how did the games get to be pre-owned, someone must have bought them so the publishers are getting money.

So, if I hypothetically bought a membership card to a club, and sold it to another guy, that guy would have paid the club?

This hypothetical depends on several things. Is it renewed annually? Do you have benefits at this club that would still exist if you gave your card away?

If it's a for-life membership, and the only benefits are those within the club, then when you give your card away, you no longer receive any benefits. The new card-owner gains these benefits, at no extra cost to the club. The club is receiving no extra money, but the club is not LOSING money, either.

 

[The Lugz]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

Not compared to any other industry. Every single industry in the world that sells something that isn't 100% a 'service' has to deal with resales. Why should gaming be any different?

In short: Instead of worrying about it, factor it into your budget (or as Brad Wardell put it: Make games for your CUSTOMERS, not your users, because not all users are customers).

Edit: And just to clarify, I'm an avid PC gamer. The only console i own is an old Xbox (not the 360). All my games are pretty much bought on Steam or some other digital service. I don't purchase pre-owned games, but i respect people that do.

pretty-much this, the thing is were near the end of a console generation and game fidelity isnt the biggest reason to buy new games, and that tends to be a major selling point for new releases over older trade-ins
also, recently money's been tight pretty-much globally

same reason you buy-new clothes, furniture whatever. newer ones have to be an upgrade or why bother?

and same here, i usually wait for a steam sale and gobble up a ton of cheap games
only thing i buy brand new are things like batman and skyrim, old republic ect.
they're just worth it.

i got gta4 for 99p. srsly, totally legit.

my theory is the more i save on average games the more of a monster pc i can have to run the awesome ones

 

[CardinalPiggles]

This is coming from GameStop, aren't they famous for selling used games?

Also if prices weren't so crazy I would buy new more often, like I do on Steam.

And lastly, Jim Sterling made a pretty good point on this, when he said 'What are we supposed to do with games when we are finished with them? Are we supposed to keep them forever no matter how fuuuuuuuucking shit they were *gasps*'. Used game sales are literally the only thing we as consumers have an advantage over, and they want to completely take that away too.

Oh and the DLC thing, don't bother, or at least if you know there will be DLC, wait for a GOTY edition or something similar before buying the game at all, because it makes the full priced game actually whole.

 

[That_Sneaky_Camper]

I don't have a job yet and rarely pay for my own video games unless I have an allowance. Sadly I am a college student and my parents keep telling me to get one already.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

so....

Who would pay the millions of dollars in salaries over the 5 year period the engine is developed and they have no product to sell yet?

Who would pay for the studios? The licences for the software? Who pays people for 5 years where they have no income if not the "fat cat" developers? Publishers

I think you mean Publishers, and they take a HUGE chunk of income from the developers, so my question is this: How are they different from a bank loan.

 

[Irridium]

Now the thing is the DLC price rising is more a sign of the increase of used sales. Trying to get more out of the used market. Thou the increase in prices on XBLA/PSN games is more or less an increases in production value. A game like Section 8 was made under the principals of selling it cheaper over digital distribution and they were selling what is really a AAA title for 20$. Wasn't what you were asking for when you wanted cheaper games?

You shouldn't be trying to compare Steam to to XBLA/PSN as they are now thou. What you should be comparing Steam to is services like Impulse and Origin. They act more or less just like steam.

Now if XBLA/PSN became the distribution platform then games would have to compete amongst each other while being able to lower production cost. Ofc we would see a drop in prices from that.

Now you talk about short term gain over long term gain. Again that is the fault of the used market. PC games have a much longer shelf life than console. This is mainly because after initial sales almost every sale will be used . They have to push those first weeks sales because there wont be a steady income of profit over a longer period. Digital distribution makes long term profit come by it self. Sale will still provide profits long after launch and there wont be the risk of "rotting stock" that there is with no physical production.

Yes, Section 8 is a good example of what should be happening, but to my knowledge that's the only AAA title that's tried it. Nobody else has tried it. Which is my point. Prejudice was actually decently successful, but apparently it wasn't successful enough to get more to try it. Which brings me again to my point of the industries focus more towards short-term profits, rather than long-term. Even with digital-only products.

And while XBLA is not like Steam, XBL itself and PSN are slowly becoming more and more like it with full games steadily being added to each service. Well, with PSN you only get them with PSN plus. And those games are still the same prices as their retail counterparts.

PC games most certainly do not have a longer shelf-life. Hell, PC games are lucky to even get a place on shelves these days. The PC market at retail is largely dead, and now far more digitally focused thanks to services like Steam, Impulse, Gamersgate, Origin, ect. And they still have the same prices as their largely irrelevant retail counterparts. They are not reducing prices. They're reducing costs, but not prices.

And the initial sales thing is just what I'm talking about, it's a strong focus on short-term gain without looking at long-term effects. Here's the thing, if there's a lot of used sales, then perhaps it would be a good idea to find out why people are trading them in. Perhaps if publishers put more effort into why people are trading in games and fueling used sales, they might find a way to actually do something about it, which would lead to long-term benefit for both the publisher and the consumer. Instead they just focus on getting short-term profits from used buyers. A strategy that apparently isn't making them that much money [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112877-EAs-Not-Getting-Rich-Off-Online-Pass].

 

[Odd Water]

I bought a used house. I've had a few used cars in my life. Some of my clothes when I was younger were preowned by other family members. I bought some used furniture. The entire concept of not buying new is because not everyone wants to spend the full money for buying new, when used or preowned handles your needs perfectly well. Now of course not everyone has to do that, obviously someone has to buy new, or the items won't get out there on the market at all.

Seriously, why is the gaming market the only place I ever hear about the 'evils' of buying used?

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

You know what hurts more? The fact that in Australia and New Zealand, games that are new cost around $130. That's almost twice the amount for Americans. So while everyone is persuading developers to sell their games less than the $60-70 in America and complaining about that price, we're still paying MORE than them.

I think, personally, we get to complain a little more.

I know right! its fucking crazy. I remember back when the most expensive games were around $60 and even my young mind considered that to be a lot.
next the new trend was around $80-$90. Soon it was 100, and a while ago I remember going into the shops and seeing assassins creed(new at the time) on sale for $120!
A Hundred and Twenty!

I can only guess that by now new AAA games are selling at the $150 dollar mark or something(I don't buy many games... and can you blame me?).

Fucking ridiculous. Its actually cheaper to buy games and import them to Australia than to get them from most stores. I swear its just a big scam they've got going down here. I use to think its cause our dollar was weaker than America's, but even when we exceedded parity, and our dollar was worth more, we still payed $80 for stuff America had for $30.

Probably why in all these sorts of debates I'm in support of the developers, cause these retailers are just screwing us over.
Pre-owned aren't even any better unless you're getting really old stuff(ps2 games and such), even then $20 for a ten year old second hand game?

My most recent purchases have been on steam during the sale, $5 for l4d2, and l4d1.
compare: $48 for l4d2 in store(EB Games), $20 for it over steam(and as i said, $5 while it was on sale)(oh and $20 new from amazon.com).

Ok rant over now.

 

[Sporky111]

I'm guilty of this, I won't buy a game if I can borrow it from a friend. It's just too expensive; games need to come down in price before I'll dish out the money to regularly buy them. I'd sooner go without, or borrow than I would buy.

I don't buy used, because if I am putting money down for a game, it's going to the people that deserve it. Yeah, I know it sounds like half-assed logic, but it makes sense to me.

 

[Yan007]

Dears publishers/devs,

Like it or not, I won't pay more than what I think your product is worth. I'm sad for you because you think your industry should be free of the second-hand market or basic laws of economics.

You say your games are expensive to make? Make cheaper games then. Guess what: People will still buy lower-quality games (lesser experiences, maybe, but not always. I'll still grant you this point for argument's sake). It always surprises me when I hear that cheaper-made games would not sell as well because for me it's a non-issue. You may argue that if your games appear of lesser quality then your competition would have an edge over you. Granted, this is a possibility. What if the industry as a whole finally decides to grow up, stop complaining about making expensive games and simply dial down on the most expensive stuff?

When I was younger and a new console came out I was always excited at the promise of better graphics, audio and gameplay. With the last few generations, I think we should frankly stop trying to emulate reality and simply go down to the basics of gameplay. For example, if you have bigger hardware (like a PS4), instead of going for even better graphics why not go for better AI or more enemies on screen at once? Keep the quality level where it is, increase quantity.

As many of you here (I assume) , I worked for companies. We had little choices when our products sold poorly. We could add value, reduce expenses, reduce prices or try and do all of this at once. What we could not do is gang-bang our consumers by increasing our prices as an industry while trying to kill the second-hand market.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about devs and publishers. I like their products as much as I like my car maker's. Even if the industry as a whole were to crash we would still have some games sooner or later. If there is a demand, there will be an offer. I'll be back soon. My cheap steam and gog downloads are done and I have some games to try.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

$60 per game NEW, stacking hyped games on the same month, week and or DAY it's fucking sickening. They DARE think gamers are suppose to be a fucking money tree. They make it seem it's wrong that I can borrow a friend's game, more so roommates or family members SHARE 1 copy of a game instead of buying 2+. Also fuck the publishers sitting on your high horse just because you have money flying out your ass that doesn't mean everybody else does you stupid, shithook bastards. They think gamers don't need to pay bills, buy food, take care of themselves.

First off publishers stop spending MILLIONS on a game when it just gonna be for multiplayer. Advertize more online since its cheaper and please don't use a stupid ass songs that'll cost you too much money to license. I got 99 problems and crooked ass publishers are one, I always wonder why in the fuck publishers take the big cut when it comes to the game sell. They overall did nothing warranting their payment amount the big cut should be going to the developers that did all the goddamn work in the first place. Plus why do a majority of new games have to be at the $60 price point I remember in the PSX - PS2 generations new games were $20-$50. So when a game wasn't hyped and it costs $20-40 they'll still get tried out if they were cool.

Yet it's the GAMERS that are causing all your problems. Really publishers, really...

I agree...a lot of it is because most of the publishers/developers being talked about are American...and therefore the whole corporate system is at fault. Publisher/Developers in other countries (Japan for example) spend a lot LESS making a game, just because they don't have exorbitant bonuses to pay (the head of Nintendo is on a $1 salary i think?), which blow out the cost of any production. If they actually spent the bare minimum (whilst still keeping production values high) they could reduce the cost of games and make more money. It's a hole that American publishers have dug themselves and doesn't just apply to this industry, why do you think the Music industry is in such fucking trouble right now? I know from experience the amount of excess that goes on there. It's no wonder a kid in his basement can make a record that sells only thousands of copies can turn a respectable profit.

 

[NaramSuen]

I bought a used house. I've had a few used cars in my life. Some of my clothes when I was younger were preowned by other family members. I bought some used furniture. The entire concept of not buying new is because not everyone wants to spend the full money for buying new, when used or preowned handles your needs perfectly well. Now of course not everyone has to do that, obviously someone has to buy new, or the items won't get out there on the market at all.

Seriously, why is the gaming market the only place I ever hear about the 'evils' of buying used?

A rare sane voice!

I grew up wearing hand-me-downs and shopping at the used bookstore. Silly me, I didn't realize that I was single-handedly destroying the clothing and publishing industries.