56% of American Gamers Don't Buy Games

[newwiseman]

Wow, I never knew I was a member of such a minority in gaming. One of those off individuals who only buys new games, and doesn't let friends borrow their games (mostly because they leave the discs sitting out)

Then again I usually wait for the first price drop, usually 1-2 months, after a release before buying. I'll support the publishers but $60 is a lot for most of the recent titles, I like to waist my money on gadgets and toys.

I'm already thinking ahead to Black Friday, pondering what sort of game deals there will be; anything to stop thinking about Skyrim.

 

[TheDooD]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

Mo

The customer doesn't owe the publisher or the dev anything. Why should they care about their profit, especially since so many these days seem perfectly happy to screw them?

Can someone help me out here as my sarcasm detector is broken.

Why would that be sarcasm? It's a perfectly reasonable statement. And one I heartily agree with.

This.

Most publishers aren't doing gamers any favors these days, so I hope they don't expect me to care if they start slipping into bankruptcy.

So you wont care if all publishers/developers slip into bankruptcy?
Now get this. I am not saying used sales should be banned. We got this thing called free market and that's why publishers can rack up their huge piles of money. The retailers undercut them using the same thing and rack up huge piles of money. However when publishers give out DLC free with new copies they should be allowed to because of... you guessed it. Free market.

Free Market isn't perfect it's a hustle and when you're working on free market standards. You have to expect the consumers to find the cheapest way to get a product. In gaming right now its either buying used and or getting it online. Yet Publishers don't seem to realize how Free Market works. they're getting pissed off at the consumer taking their money elsewhere, where their money is spent they way they want to spend it. Publishers that act like they don't realize this NEED to disappear because their business practices are what's hurting gaming. If they can't adapt to their consumers needs well they want to fail, why should we conform to their needs when we can find other outlets.

 

[Yopaz]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

I don't make that argument.

I make the argument that it's my game and if I wanna make money off of it buy selling it again, I damn well have that right.

It sucks for the developers, sure, but people do it with books, movies, cds... pretty much ANYTHING that they buy except perishables.

The thing that developers have to do is figure out how to compete with it. I actually think that online passes and day one DLC is a great idea - I don't really understand why people bash it so much - EXCEPT when viewed from the perspective of that $60 price tag.

I remember seeing a story on here that Steam had a sale on Dragon age about 6 months after it came out and was selling it for $3.75. They saw a 72% increase in total sales, not just for Dragon Age, but across the board, in every genre.

Point being that even if you don't want to make EVERY game cheaper, even a few high quality, low budget titles could help your sales overall.

Game companies just need to learn how to compete with used copies - and frankly, there are a lot of other things I'd fix first (like the bloated corporate side of game companies) before I'd out right attack used game sales.

OK, so I agree with you for the most part here, but movies, music, cars and books can't really be compared to games.
Some of the movie income come from the first screenings in theatres, which is something that can't be sold used, a huge bulk of the income is selling screening rights to networking companies so it can be aired on TV. Just a minor part of the cash comes from customers buying new.
Music got concerts, radio performances and the rights to air the music on both TV and radio. Almost nothing of their cash comes from selling a new CD.
Books are usually written by one person, then edited by 1 person then published by one company and printed by demand. There's not much money needed to make or publish one so they don't need as many sales to give the publisher, editor and the write a steady income.
I could go on for hours about how the car industry punishes those who buy used, but I have repeated that so many times even I am bored of hearing it.
If you buy used food... well food spoils quickly and after one person has used it it's not worth as much, either in taste or nutrients.

Now I am not against used sales. We got free market and I damn right think we should be allowed to enjoy the benefits as consumers. I get pissed off at whoever complains about day 1 DLC. Especially this "Why do I need to pay to get content that I should get when I pay full price?!" when they do actually get the full package if they pay the full price. They don't get the full package if they pay $15 less however.

 

[xplay3r]

So if there wasn't a second hand game market, almost NO-ONE would play video games, thats what this study shows us.

I can't afford $60 Damn dollars every time I want to play a new game.

We should take this data and correlate it with used game sales for the market of the last console generation. Back when they were only $20 bucks brand new.
Who wants to take bets that second-handing wasn't such a problem back then?

Lower the price of brand new games, and you'll see an increase in first hand sales.

 

[StriderShinryu]

The thing that always bugs me is people complaining that they don't make enough new IP's but then won't buy new IP games new, they rent them or buy them used.

This.

Everyone always likes to point at publishers, especially the big guns like EA and Activision, and complain about how they never do anything new to advance the industry. They supposedly pump out repetitive barely altered sequels every single year and never do anything new. Well, the only way to combat that is to actually spend money on the new and interesting titles that are developed. If, for example, EA has it's income cut by several % due to a totally new title not selling overly well the first thing they are going to do is not put more money into new titles. You can't really blame that at that point for just hunkering back down and making another new Madden game.

 

[Richard Allen]

Yeah...but...what about books, and movies. They don't whine like this. Or at least as much. I'm really sick of the whole subject.

This. If publishing, Cinema and Cars don't make such stupid claims then I don't understand why games complain so much. I mean it is not like these players don't buy the games or that the publishers get no money in this system. For every used game their was once a new game!

Movies have theater time long before DVD sales begin. Cars don't turn over in days like games do. You will never find a used car at a store one week after the model was released. Similarly, you can't even buy movies until months after their theater release.

Don't make shit up to prove your point. I know for a fact that you can find cars a week old on the lots. I saw one the other day with just 73 miles on it before it was returned. (not to mention the constant laughing of one of my peers who owns a dealership and makes probably the most profit off of those cars)

Discs do degrade and are unusable after time and beyond that, would you pay $60 for Diablo 2 right now? Or any other old title from 3 years ago? Didn't think so, so saying that there is no market value loss is just another lie from people who don't understand economics. Go try to play madden 08 or w/e online right now, let me know how long you look for a game and tell me that would be worth the new price today.

 

[Baresark]

I'm not surprised. There are a lot of things in this industry that are completely broken. There are ways to combat used game sales. For instance, you can make a game with replay value. Give people incentive to replay it. I remember Earth Defense Force 2017. There were so many unlocks in that game it was ridiculous. And incentive to play each stage a bunch of times on various difficulties. My buddy and I played that game for months, and then he never traded it in. It's too bad they fucked up the sequel.

Also, I know if the publishers lower the prices, then Gamestop will just lower them further, but that doesn't matter. If you can buy a new game for say... $50 (you know, a not so ridiculous amount of money) and you treat your customers like valued parts of your business strategy rather than the enemy, you could probably get some loyalty out of them. Meaning that they will want to support you by buying the product new.

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

True, but they should stop punishing the consumer for doing the financially smart thing, and instead go after Gamestop and others like them for not sharing the profits on used sales.

I do think Used sales hurt the industry, but I don't think publishers are fighting it the right way. Instead of trying to force players to buy new, they should be finding ways to get money from used sales.

They are doing that, it's called online passes, and it actually has a lot of people pissed off. It's honestly a good ploy. I would never buy a game on the PS3 that didn't have a single player component. So, I wouldn't care one way or the other, they could keep their online pass. But the problem the publisher will have is people like me. I buy their game used because it's cheaper, but I don't care about the online pass because I'm not worried about online play. Now I spend even less money, and they are still not getting anything out of me. Or, Gamestop will still sell the game for less and then throw in the online pass for free. The publisher will get their money, but how long till it's still not enough?

Also, the stores that sell used games are not the culprit. They give incentives to their customers by buying their old games off of them, then the customer can buy a new copy of a new game at a cheaper price. Both parties benefit. Gamestop makes money and the publisher gets to sell a new product. But the only thing the publisher cares about is the used sale of the game you sold. So, now the publisher is still mad, even if you did turn around and buy one of their new products.

 

[Richard Allen]

I like how people act like a 20$ price difference in used and new game sales is enough of a factor that will actively determine whether or not your children get fed tonight.

"So sorry Timmy, we would've had Hamburger Helper, but I just had to have Skyrim on Launch day."

Seriously? If you can afford a luxury item like a gaming console/PC to begin with, then that price difference is not going to break you. Stop acting like it will.

Not that the price of any game has to do with any of this (it's mostly whining), but that's absolute bs. I know plenty of my peers that would save for months to grab a game as a kid, and I remember having to be for games and I was lucky to get 1 or 2 at christmas time. Don't make statements that you can't back up or clearly have no clue about, it detracts from the actual conversation (which I admin is a loose definition here at the escapist hehe)

 

[NiPah]

I buy used games just to make the ant-used game whiners mad.
I didn't even want some of the used games I buy, but pissing them off is worth $10.

 

[thiosk]

The game publishing industry went FULL TILT behind consoles back in the XBOX era, their logic being that console games are substantially more difficult to pirate. OF course, now they have the used markets, because they created commodity disks that could be transferred from place to place. And now they're pissed about that, while steam blows all speculations of potential sales out the window while doing the little guy a favor.

Game publishers should remember one thing: make the teenagers who have no money and steal love you when they are teenagers, and when they get some spending money and become twentysomethings, they spend that new liquid income on the titles they had to steal in their youth.

 

[Madkipz]

The thing that always bugs me is people complaining that they don't make enough new IP's but then won't buy new IP games new, they rent them or buy them used.

This.

Everyone always likes to point at publishers, especially the big guns like EA and Activision, and complain about how they never do anything new to advance the industry. They supposedly pump out repetitive barely altered sequels every single year and never do anything new. Well, the only way to combat that is to actually spend money on the new and interesting titles that are developed. If, for example, EA has it's income cut by several % due to a totally new title not selling overly well the first thing they are going to do is not put more money into new titles. You can't really blame that at that point for just hunkering back down and making another new Madden game.

yea well they dont exactly need to make every title a triple A.

Some of the best games of all time. Amnesia and Starcraft bw barely had the resources to pull shit off.

Guess what if your triple A game sux you will loose bigtime in stocks and shit and people will be stuck playing angry birds or rather buy a dlc. If your game is great (witcher 2) then you get a free pass.

but the risk is too great and no dev is walking the middleground here.

 

[Yopaz]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

This statement is incredibly short sighted.

Or thin sighted, whatever it would be called.

This issue isn't that simple. If they got rid of used sales the amount of sales wouldn't jump by 56%.

The used product industry is fueled by a consumer market that cannot afford a luxury at the full asking price.

There is a used market for everything outside of food. Only one of those industries is accusing that market of crippling them.

Video Game publishers and Developers are making products outside of their budget and charging more than consumers are willing to pay. It is entirely their fault. Nobody forced any of them to take on the expensive arms race of graphics. Had they not done so they'd still be making large and relatively cheap games.

So you wont care if all publishers/developers slip into bankruptcy?

All publishers wouldn't, only the bad ones, Free Market (as you said).

If a company can't survive without shady practices they aren't functioning properly. There is nothing stopping companies from making good games on the cheap.

Name me one company that isn't using any shady methods. Find one company that makes cars that don't use third world workers at any point in their production. Even the food industry does this to keep their income.
Now I will be repeating myself a lot of times here, but get this. The gaming industry only earns money when a new copy of a game gets sold. Some games got DLC to earn money even in the case of used sales.
The music industry earns most money from deals with broadcasting companies and concerts.
The movie industry earns most money from theatres and TV broadcasting.
The book industry doesn't require big teams to make each books, big teams were all of them needs to earn money for food.
The car industry makes money on spare parts and the fact that cars don't last forever.
Clothes needs to be replaced. Home electronics needs to be replaced. Computers need to be replaced.

Now I have said before. Used sales is not evil and should not be banned, but is it really such a big deal when you get a discount coupon for DLC worth 10 bucks with a new sale?
How is that more shady than Mazda forcing you to go to an authourized Mazda dealer to replace your headlights (which you by law) you are required to have?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

The game publishing industry went FULL TILT behind consoles back in the XBOX era, their logic being that console games are substantially more difficult to pirate. OF course, now they have the used markets, because they created commodity disks that could be transferred from place to place. And now they're pissed about that, while steam blows all speculations of potential sales out the window while doing the little guy a favor.

Game publishers should remember one thing: make the teenagers who have no money and steal love you when they are teenagers, and when they get some spending money and become twentysomethings, they spend that new liquid income on the titles they had to steal in their youth.

I'm with you on that. Some people buy used because of economic issues. But when they get more money, if they're fans of you, they'll buy your stuff new. It happens.

OT: I buy most all of my games new, and rarely sell them back. But I still think the used market is an important part of the industry. And consumers should not be so quick to give up their consumer rights. There are better ways to make money, that don't require hurting the consumer who gets a game second hand.

 

[Baresark]

And yet people will come here and say that used sales don't cause the publisher any reason to worry...

Mo

The customer doesn't owe the publisher or the dev anything. Why should they care about their profit, especially since so many these days seem perfectly happy to screw them?

Can someone help me out here as my sarcasm detector is broken.

Why would that be sarcasm? It's a perfectly reasonable statement. And one I heartily agree with.

This.

Most publishers aren't doing gamers any favors these days, so I hope they don't expect me to care if they start slipping into bankruptcy.

So you wont care if all publishers/developers slip into bankruptcy?
Now get this. I am not saying used sales should be banned. We got this thing called free market and that's why publishers can rack up their huge piles of money. The retailers undercut them using the same thing and rack up huge piles of money. However when publishers give out DLC free with new copies they should be allowed to because of... you guessed it. Free market.

Free Market isn't perfect it's a hustle and when you're working on free market standards. You have to expect the consumers to find the cheapest way to get a product. In gaming right now its either buying used and or getting it online. Yet Publishers don't seem to realize how Free Market works. they're getting pissed off at the consumer taking their money elsewhere, where their money is spent they way they want to spend it. Publishers that act like they don't realize this NEED to disappear because their business practices are what's hurting gaming. If they can't adapt to their consumers needs well they want to fail, why should we conform to their needs when we can find other outlets.

Publishers do not believe in free markets. If they could, they would eliminate all the competition and be the only sole company that publishes games (monopoly). Publishers can do as they please with day one DLC and all of that. I'm fine with it really. But the used game market exists because of free markets. Free markets only exist when people have a right of ownership. They own the things they buy with their own money and they own themselves.

I find it a shame when people make excuses for a company lashing out at their customers. The people who bought that disc have the right to do with it as they please. If they all decided to throw the disc away they wouldn't be complaining people were destroying their product. But as soon as I have an old game I don't play anymore and someone offers me money for it, it's the end of the world.

Also, as a side note. If the game was good, people would probably hold onto them. The games you see ten used copies of at the store are all games that have either been a round for a really long time, or that were terrible. Yet, I cannot find a used version of the Metroid Prime Trilogy anywhere but online and for about $200. And that is a game on a system that people profess to hating. On that note, neither can I find a new copy.

 

[GeorgW]

Wow, those are some scary large figures! I always buy new, but I do borrow and lend.
Also, I take it that this study completely overlook services like Steam, as usual?

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Stop charging 70$ for your games and we wont have this problem.

 

[Baresark]

I like how people act like a 20$ price difference in used and new game sales is enough of a factor that will actively determine whether or not your children get fed tonight.

"So sorry Timmy, we would've had Hamburger Helper, but I just had to have Skyrim on Launch day."

Seriously? If you can afford a luxury item like a gaming console/PC to begin with, then that price difference is not going to break you. Stop acting like it will.

It's strange how people think. You are wrong. Price determines how people spend money, that is a point of fact. It's not about whether there is food on the table, because anyone with any amount of sense would not buy videogames. But you can't fault people for seeking out the best deal. Just because you can afford to buy it new doesn't mean you that if someone offers you a cheaper copy, you should not take it. That is utter nonsense.

As an illustration, lets talk about luxury taxes. Back around 1991, the US government tried the same thing with yachts. The figured, as you do, that if you can afford to you will not change your spending habits. The idea was that people who could afford a luxury item could afford to spend a little more which would go to taxes paid to the government. As you may be surprised to find out, that actually destroyed the domestic yacht construction industry, driving some 10,000 people out of work. Once again, the idea was that if you made things a little bit more expensive to people who could afford it, people would not change their spending habits, which is 100% false. Your idea that since videogames are a luxury and people should just buckle down and pay higher prices is not in sync with reality. All people will seek the better deal. That is why you go to the grocery store who is having the bigger sale on things you want. It's basic market economics.

 

[ElPatron]

Okay. Then art would be a better analogy. Except it also raises prices a lot. But forget that part. I suppose that those auctions are hurting artists as well.

 

[scorptatious]

Geez. No wonder publishers are so intent to have people buy new in order to have access to special content.

Fortunately, if there was a new game out that I wanted to play, I usually buy new.

 

[silversnake4133]

Well, what the hell to you want from us developers and publishers? We're already getting screwed over financially by our government, and now you complain that we aren't spending enough on your games. If you look at the gamer community, a good number of gamers are either children or college students, neither of which have a lot of money to spend on games. Sure you could argue that children are directly tied to their parent's disposable income, but there are less and less families out there that can afford to regularly spend their money on newly released games because of the unemployment rate that is STILL rising. It seems that the only people who buy new titles anymore are die-hard fanboys, people who review games, and rich kids.

I love the used-games market because it allows for those less fortunate to still enjoy the novelty that this industry has become. If you're really having that much trouble why don't you set up your own used-games stores that are directly tied to the publishers/developers. Or do what Valve did and create an online distribution/gaming service that offers big-name titles for affordable prices. I don't know when/if this stupid recession will end and unemployment starts to decrease, so until then you're just going to have to hope that game sales overseas can sustain you. Or be happy that you can still obtain a profit.

Perhaps all of these problems with companies could be easily solved if they stop trying to make more and more profits each year and just focus on making enough to keep going and sustain a HEALTHY workforce (none of this bare minimum skeleton crew bullshit that's going on now), and when you earn enough to expand, do so. Stop being greedy, nothing good ever comes out of it in the long run.