Valve: Xbox Live Rules are a "Train Wreck"

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
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Valve: Xbox Live Rules are a "Train Wreck"


Gabe Newell of Valve says the studio mistakenly expected it would have more opportunities to update the Xbox 360 version of Team Fortress 2 [http://www.amazon.com/Orange-Box-Xbox-360/dp/B000R0PLK2/ref=sr_1_3?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1284054747&sr=1-3] after it was released because the rules for Xbox Live were "such a train wreck" that they'd have to be changed eventually.

How you feel about Team Fortress 2 depends a lot of on your platform of choice. Owners of the PC Gamer [http://www.amazon.com/Team-Fortress-2-Pc/dp/B00140S21O/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1284054747&sr=1-1], Newell, along with Erik Johnson and Doug Lombardi, said it's not entirely Valve's fault; the company knew Microsoft had strict rules about how games could be updated over Xbox Live but assumed that things would eventually change because it's such an obviously flawed system.

"We thought that there would be something that would emerge, because we figured it was sort of untenable," Newell explained. "'Oh yeah, we understand that these are the rules now, but it's such a train wreck that something will have to change'."

"The lack of updates on the 360 for TF2 is... a total failure," Johnson said. It's particularly troubling for Valve, he added, "Because it got all the way through to customers. It's like a bug. If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it's pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it's really expensive. Those ones are really bad."

Somewhat ironically, Newell also praised the PlayStation 3, which not too terribly long ago he treated like something stuck to the bottom of his shoe [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/77826-Gabe-Newell-Calls-PlayStation-3-A-Waste-of-Time], for picking up the ball Microsoft dropped. "We're really happy with the current situation with the PS3," he said. "We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this."

My, how things change, eh?


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Zer_

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Feb 7, 2008
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I agree about a lot of what they say. Despite being a good service for the ned user, it's just hell to work around XBox Live.
 

BrunDeign

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Feb 14, 2008
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Yeah the Xbox Live rules kinda suck. More than I thought I guess if they're the specific reason Valve can't update TF 2.

I wonder how the Wii's internet would work with Valve's update system. Then again Valve seems to not want to put anything out on the Wii so...
 
Jul 22, 2009
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I agree that Microsoft needs to loosen on their rules a bit... but I don't get it.

Valve own a massively used PC game platform plus loads of highly rated titles that millions of people have bought and played regularly...

Yet they won't shell out for one god damn update?

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?
 

Odegauger

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Apr 7, 2010
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Tankichi said:
Andy Chalk said:
Somewhat ironically, Newell also praised the PlayStation 3, which not too terribly long ago he treated like something stuck to the bottom of his shoe [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/77826-Gabe-Newell-Calls-PlayStation-3-A-Waste-of-Time], for picking up the ball Microsoft dropped. "We're really happy with the current situation with the PS3," he said. "We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this."
Wait......Did microsoft Kill his dog or something? Until now everything i have read about Gabe Newell and PS3 has been him hating on it and the people who bought it.....This new future doesn't seem so bleak after all.
Or it could be Sony money talking.
 

Harlemura

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May 1, 2009
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Gabe Newell has one of those voices like Farnsworth, you see a quote from him and instantly read it in his voice... well, I do, at least...

I guess we could just look on the bright side. If they'd been able to update the 360 version of TF2 as much as the PC version, we'd need about 50 hard drives to store all the data.
It'd be worth it. For hats.
Everything's worth it for hats.
 

tomtom94

aka "Who?"
May 11, 2009
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One suspects there is quite a large amount of Sony money heading the way of Valve re: Portal 2.

But anyway, I seem to recall a certain Kotick (Robert) mentioning something similar about Xbox Live...
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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canadamus_prime said:
Did it occur it him to try and work out this issues with Microsoft?
I'm sure they've actually talked to Microsoft about it.
 

GiantRedButton

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Mar 30, 2009
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GamesB2 said:
I agree that Microsoft needs to loosen on their rules a bit... but I don't get it.

Valve own a massively used PC game platform plus loads of highly rated titles that millions of people have bought and played regularly...

Yet they won't shell out for one god damn update?

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?
Valve doesnt have to pay but its a xboxlive rule that microsoft that updates with alot of content (determined by microsoft) aren't allowed to be updates.
The updates are only allowed to be sold as dlc so the players that payed for the new dlc and thus weapons would get an advantage for money. Its not about bribe money that you pay microsoft XD
Another example is castle crashers, they wanted to release the dlc for free but microsoft determined a price for it and dictated that it was payed dlc.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Dec 13, 2008
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Well, yeah. The PS3's system has much more freedom for developers and suchlike, and the 360's is too controlled. I think Sony really have this online millarkey nailed now.
 

Optimus Hagrid

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Feb 14, 2009
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GamesB2 said:
I agree that Microsoft needs to loosen on their rules a bit... but I don't get it.

Valve own a massively used PC game platform plus loads of highly rated titles that millions of people have bought and played regularly...

Yet they won't shell out for one god damn update?

I mean yeah... the rules are strict and bad and blah de blah. But can't they take a small wad of money from the Valve cash pile and throw out an update? I mean really are they that stuck up about this?
Any new weapons or hats are impossible, as Team Fortress 2 takes up nearly all of the 360's RAM.

However, this is no excuse for the lack of map packs, or even bloody bug fixes. Don't forget the horrible class limits update, which not only made it even more difficult to find a playable game but also prevented game modding, and ruining possibly the only chance 360 players will get to play Payload. This is why i mad at Valve.


Though I'll probably get Portal 2 anyway.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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GiantRedButton said:
Valve doesnt have to pay but its a xboxlive rule that microsoft that updates with alot of content (determined by microsoft) aren't allowed to be updates.
The updates are only allowed to be sold as dlc so the players that payed for the new dlc and thus weapons would get an advantage for money. Its not about bribe money that you pay microsoft XD
Another example is castle crashers, they wanted to release the dlc for free but microsoft determined a price for it and dictated that it was payed dlc.
That's not even what I was talking about.

I realise I wasn't clear. So let me make that right.

F*ck the new content. I don't want it. Just fix the god damn glitches and server errors and everything that screws up the online.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Optimus Hagrid said:
Any new weapons or hats are impossible, as Team Fortress 2 takes up nearly all of the 360's RAM.

However, this is no excuse for the lack of map packs, or even a bloody map pack. Don't forget the horrible class limits update, which not only made it even more difficult to find a playable game but also prevented game modding, and ruining possibly the only chance 360 players will get to play Payload. This is why i mad at Valve.

Snip

Though I'll probably get Portal 2 anyway.
Ergh...

Look a few posts up there ^ ^ ^ Same response applies.